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Sick Out Talk Heats Up



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 29th, 2003, 01:51 PM
None
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

From USAViation message boards:

You have to keep a very important thing in mind, regardless of your loathing
for specific posters on this board who happen to be AA/FAs (or maybe not who
really knows) labor has legitimate complaints, and labor has just as much of
a right, if not more, to vent as anyone else.

Do you know why AA just up and ended the SOS program? Because labor was
getting sick and tired of having to perform like trained dogs for a stinkin'
coupon to get a little recognition out of a customer that they could not
otherwise get from their employer. The SOS program was a slap in the face to
every employee at AA who got one. I suppose to you, it's like tossing your
dog a 'beggin strip' for making you happy. Just like those AAchiever points,
they weren't worth the toilet paper they were printed on. AA wasn't
rewarding their employees with fair wages and fair labor practices, so they
were forcing them to "perform" for the customers to get points, and hope
that the performance kept the customers coming back. Remember, those SOS
points weren't given to just any customer - I never used any, they went in
the circular file.

As a frequent flyer with many miles, your tone seems to indicate to me that
those miles have granted you some sort of status over AA employees or anyone
else on board for that matter. It doesn't. I had those miles too, but I cut
up the cards and shoved 'em up Don Carty's fanny long ago. They mean
nothing. Just like the SOS and AAchiever programs treated employees like
trained animals, the FF miles were AA's way of handing you a treat for
performing just as the airline wants you to.

I don't doubt your on-board story one bit, in fact, I've had similar
experiences. But that is exactly how karma works, sometimes it just
recognizes the fact that you are over due, or in need of a good karmic
bltch-slap, and sometimes it chooses an FA to deliver it. Sometimes it
chooses a cab driver, a hotel clerk, a bank teller, or the customer service
rep on the phone at your favorite porno movie club!

This thread started out by someone posting a rumor-based "article" regarding
the possibility of a sick out over the holidays. It didn't say Thanksgiving,
Christmas, New Years, it was non-specific, which is why I questioned it to
begin with. I realize that labor has some very legitimate complaints. I see
them every time I fly now, on the faces of stressed out gate agents and
flight attendants who are so goddamned tired they can barely drag their
rollaboard behind them! For that "honor" they forked over astronomical,
never before heard of wage concessions and work rule changes, because
Carty-the-liar told labor that if they didn't, American would file
bankruptcy and they would all be left to the perils of a bankruptcy judge
who would more than likely put them out of a job. All the while,
Carty-the-liar was secretly stuffing the pockets of the executive level
corporate elite, who all knew about it, and no doubt were sitting back
having a hefty chuckle at how stupid labor was for falling sucker to the
plan. Carty-the-liar stepped down in mock shame, and Arpey stepped up,
Arpey, who was in on, and benefited from the pocket stuffing. Nothing has
changed, the pockets are still being filled, and million dollar golden
parachute pensions are still in tact yet the same people who put AA in such
horrible shape are STILL in control. Nothing has changed except labor has
been kicked in the balls delivered on a wing-tipped foot with a macabre
laugh.

Once the shield was removed from the truth of what Carty-the-liar had done,
no one rushed to fix it, they decided instead to deliver even more blows to
the labor force. Now, and it's no secret, the company has handed labor a
stripped down health care plan that has, among many other things, more than
doubled and in some instances tripled the cost of their medications. With
indifference to numerous complaints, the company has saddled labor yet again
with another year of poor service from the prescription plan through Medco
Health, a company fraught with bad management and charged with fraud by
authorities who cite that the company routinely falsified records and made
false statements, alleging that Medco Health destroyed prescriptions to
avoid penalties for slowness in processing orders, put too few pills in
bottles and improperly switched patients' medicines. Yet a company like that
is good enough for AMR's labor force - or so obviously believes AMR.

On top of the health care benefit farce, the company is currently in the
process of holding "focus group meetings" where carefully hand picked
"representatives" of agent groups throughout the company's various stations
are being brought to Dallas to "vote" on making changes to the agent's
seniority status. The key being, that the company is looking for a way to
strip long term seniority away from those highest/max paid agents in order
to up them frightfully higher toward the top of the list of those eligible
for furlough, while junior agents who haven't moved anywhere in the company
yet, but are at low pay scales, will end up out ranking, seniority wise,
long term agents upon whose backs the company was built. Can you smell it?
Wait for it . . . . here it comes . . . .and to top it all off, AMR is
investing HEAVILY into one-stop machines to bolster up an already in the
works plan (the focus groups are a front in my opinion) to make astronomical
cuts in the non unionized agent work force and replace them with one-stop
machines - every intent is to "automate the customer" through kiosks and an
internet website that most of the time is so slow it more than likely chases
away as many customers as it hooks. You'll end up with one agent per gate
and no gate check-in capability. You'll be directed to a one stop machine
for all your needs from check in, to seat assignments, flight changes,
voucher issues for voluntary and involuntary seat forfeits, meal and hotel
vouchers for misconnects and flight cancellations and more and if the
customer can't figure it out, all the better for AA, who will reap revenue
from unused tickets, and hundred dollar fees for re-issuing tickets for
people who missed their flights because they can't figure out how to do
complex transactions on a one stop machine, not to mention those who will be
waiting in the long lines behind them, wondering if the touch screen will be
clean enough to work by they time they get to it, and hope they don't pick
something up from it when they get there. I can't see how AMR could possibly
hope to automate every passenger and to make one stop machines that
understand every language, but my gut instinct says it's definitely in the
works, the "customer training" has already begun. I've used one stop
machines, I hate them, they are error ridden filthy germ traps and you can't
clean off the screens, it requires special solutions to do it.

Do I think a sick out would be a good idea at this point? No, financially it
would be a burden to AA. Do I think the flight attendants and/or gate agents
have legitimate grievances that would warrant a sick out at this time? Most
definitely. it is extremely unfortunate that it may come down to this, but
labor has long grasped for a way to reach the ear of the employer, and
drastic times require drastic measures. Since AMR's Q3 revelation of 3.3
billion in cash, regardless of where it came from or how it was acquired,
its turning a lot of employee's heads right now. I've heard the talk and the
grumblings. This message board is representative of but a fraction of the
available aviation related boards and groups on the net. It has nearly 3,000
members, yet a scant couple of dozen do all of the posting. Many read this
message board, it doesn't require membership to do so. It is the opinions of
those silent majorities that we'll never know, but would most likely speak
volumes if we did.

Customers like you, and me, and countless others, have dumped a lot of money
into AA, and that's a lot of money that AA does NOT want to share with the
very labor force that made it possible for AA to get it. There will be NO
dividends paid by this company for a very long time so I won't hear about
the stockholders as a legitimate excuse for crapping all over labor.
Corporate, and their idiotic fare structures and silly programs keep
customers away. Labor, the front line "face" between company and passenger
is what keeps customers coming back. The split second you forget that, or
start tossing around chatter about the last trained dog you gave your SOS
points to, the split second you start spouting off how much better you are
than any of the employees taking care of you while you schmoozed your way
from the back of the plane to the front - I really don't care how
self-important you think you are, or how well trained AA thinks they have
you as a "loyal customer" the fact remains that when your nose goes in the
air, you forget that you are snubbing the very people who make it possible
for that corporate structure to put your name on a membership card so they
can keep your dollars rolling into their coffers. I'm an investor, and I
recognize that, why can't you?

There are none more qualified to speak on the issue of AMR and it's labor
relations than an employee, no matter how much you may disagree with what
they have to say, they are a far better authority than you or I. Regardless
of whether it be WRX or someone else, the very fact that you loathe whatever
opinion they have to offer, be it one you agree with or not, makes me wonder
exactly which flag you reside under, let alone that the fact appears to be
you are only concerned with what an employee action could do to your
"status" with an airline. How myopic!

Airline labor is facing tough and uncertain times right now. We have to
allow for the recognition of that fact. If the only participation you have
to offer is to take a one-sided approach to the known problems, then perhaps
silence would be your true calling on airline/labor relations.


  #2  
Old October 30th, 2003, 02:28 AM
Jeffrey Hacker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

IMHO, this is all a result of 20 plus years of deregulation. Airline
employees make considerably less than before, and the airlines earn less.
Deregulation was a disaster.

Jeff

"None" wrote in message
ink.net...
From USAViation message boards:

You have to keep a very important thing in mind, regardless of your

loathing
for specific posters on this board who happen to be AA/FAs (or maybe not

who
really knows) labor has legitimate complaints, and labor has just as much

of
a right, if not more, to vent as anyone else.

Do you know why AA just up and ended the SOS program? Because labor was
getting sick and tired of having to perform like trained dogs for a

stinkin'
coupon to get a little recognition out of a customer that they could not
otherwise get from their employer. The SOS program was a slap in the face

to
every employee at AA who got one. I suppose to you, it's like tossing your
dog a 'beggin strip' for making you happy. Just like those AAchiever

points,
they weren't worth the toilet paper they were printed on. AA wasn't
rewarding their employees with fair wages and fair labor practices, so

they
were forcing them to "perform" for the customers to get points, and hope
that the performance kept the customers coming back. Remember, those SOS
points weren't given to just any customer - I never used any, they went in
the circular file.

As a frequent flyer with many miles, your tone seems to indicate to me

that
those miles have granted you some sort of status over AA employees or

anyone
else on board for that matter. It doesn't. I had those miles too, but I

cut
up the cards and shoved 'em up Don Carty's fanny long ago. They mean
nothing. Just like the SOS and AAchiever programs treated employees like
trained animals, the FF miles were AA's way of handing you a treat for
performing just as the airline wants you to.

I don't doubt your on-board story one bit, in fact, I've had similar
experiences. But that is exactly how karma works, sometimes it just
recognizes the fact that you are over due, or in need of a good karmic
bltch-slap, and sometimes it chooses an FA to deliver it. Sometimes it
chooses a cab driver, a hotel clerk, a bank teller, or the customer

service
rep on the phone at your favorite porno movie club!

This thread started out by someone posting a rumor-based "article"

regarding
the possibility of a sick out over the holidays. It didn't say

Thanksgiving,
Christmas, New Years, it was non-specific, which is why I questioned it to
begin with. I realize that labor has some very legitimate complaints. I

see
them every time I fly now, on the faces of stressed out gate agents and
flight attendants who are so goddamned tired they can barely drag their
rollaboard behind them! For that "honor" they forked over astronomical,
never before heard of wage concessions and work rule changes, because
Carty-the-liar told labor that if they didn't, American would file
bankruptcy and they would all be left to the perils of a bankruptcy judge
who would more than likely put them out of a job. All the while,
Carty-the-liar was secretly stuffing the pockets of the executive level
corporate elite, who all knew about it, and no doubt were sitting back
having a hefty chuckle at how stupid labor was for falling sucker to the
plan. Carty-the-liar stepped down in mock shame, and Arpey stepped up,
Arpey, who was in on, and benefited from the pocket stuffing. Nothing has
changed, the pockets are still being filled, and million dollar golden
parachute pensions are still in tact yet the same people who put AA in

such
horrible shape are STILL in control. Nothing has changed except labor has
been kicked in the balls delivered on a wing-tipped foot with a macabre
laugh.

Once the shield was removed from the truth of what Carty-the-liar had

done,
no one rushed to fix it, they decided instead to deliver even more blows

to
the labor force. Now, and it's no secret, the company has handed labor a
stripped down health care plan that has, among many other things, more

than
doubled and in some instances tripled the cost of their medications. With
indifference to numerous complaints, the company has saddled labor yet

again
with another year of poor service from the prescription plan through Medco
Health, a company fraught with bad management and charged with fraud by
authorities who cite that the company routinely falsified records and made
false statements, alleging that Medco Health destroyed prescriptions to
avoid penalties for slowness in processing orders, put too few pills in
bottles and improperly switched patients' medicines. Yet a company like

that
is good enough for AMR's labor force - or so obviously believes AMR.

On top of the health care benefit farce, the company is currently in the
process of holding "focus group meetings" where carefully hand picked
"representatives" of agent groups throughout the company's various

stations
are being brought to Dallas to "vote" on making changes to the agent's
seniority status. The key being, that the company is looking for a way to
strip long term seniority away from those highest/max paid agents in order
to up them frightfully higher toward the top of the list of those eligible
for furlough, while junior agents who haven't moved anywhere in the

company
yet, but are at low pay scales, will end up out ranking, seniority wise,
long term agents upon whose backs the company was built. Can you smell it?
Wait for it . . . . here it comes . . . .and to top it all off, AMR is
investing HEAVILY into one-stop machines to bolster up an already in the
works plan (the focus groups are a front in my opinion) to make

astronomical
cuts in the non unionized agent work force and replace them with one-stop
machines - every intent is to "automate the customer" through kiosks and

an
internet website that most of the time is so slow it more than likely

chases
away as many customers as it hooks. You'll end up with one agent per gate
and no gate check-in capability. You'll be directed to a one stop machine
for all your needs from check in, to seat assignments, flight changes,
voucher issues for voluntary and involuntary seat forfeits, meal and hotel
vouchers for misconnects and flight cancellations and more and if the
customer can't figure it out, all the better for AA, who will reap revenue
from unused tickets, and hundred dollar fees for re-issuing tickets for
people who missed their flights because they can't figure out how to do
complex transactions on a one stop machine, not to mention those who will

be
waiting in the long lines behind them, wondering if the touch screen will

be
clean enough to work by they time they get to it, and hope they don't pick
something up from it when they get there. I can't see how AMR could

possibly
hope to automate every passenger and to make one stop machines that
understand every language, but my gut instinct says it's definitely in the
works, the "customer training" has already begun. I've used one stop
machines, I hate them, they are error ridden filthy germ traps and you

can't
clean off the screens, it requires special solutions to do it.

Do I think a sick out would be a good idea at this point? No, financially

it
would be a burden to AA. Do I think the flight attendants and/or gate

agents
have legitimate grievances that would warrant a sick out at this time?

Most
definitely. it is extremely unfortunate that it may come down to this, but
labor has long grasped for a way to reach the ear of the employer, and
drastic times require drastic measures. Since AMR's Q3 revelation of 3.3
billion in cash, regardless of where it came from or how it was acquired,
its turning a lot of employee's heads right now. I've heard the talk and

the
grumblings. This message board is representative of but a fraction of the
available aviation related boards and groups on the net. It has nearly

3,000
members, yet a scant couple of dozen do all of the posting. Many read this
message board, it doesn't require membership to do so. It is the opinions

of
those silent majorities that we'll never know, but would most likely speak
volumes if we did.

Customers like you, and me, and countless others, have dumped a lot of

money
into AA, and that's a lot of money that AA does NOT want to share with the
very labor force that made it possible for AA to get it. There will be NO
dividends paid by this company for a very long time so I won't hear about
the stockholders as a legitimate excuse for crapping all over labor.
Corporate, and their idiotic fare structures and silly programs keep
customers away. Labor, the front line "face" between company and passenger
is what keeps customers coming back. The split second you forget that, or
start tossing around chatter about the last trained dog you gave your SOS
points to, the split second you start spouting off how much better you are
than any of the employees taking care of you while you schmoozed your way
from the back of the plane to the front - I really don't care how
self-important you think you are, or how well trained AA thinks they have
you as a "loyal customer" the fact remains that when your nose goes in the
air, you forget that you are snubbing the very people who make it possible
for that corporate structure to put your name on a membership card so they
can keep your dollars rolling into their coffers. I'm an investor, and I
recognize that, why can't you?

There are none more qualified to speak on the issue of AMR and it's labor
relations than an employee, no matter how much you may disagree with what
they have to say, they are a far better authority than you or I.

Regardless
of whether it be WRX or someone else, the very fact that you loathe

whatever
opinion they have to offer, be it one you agree with or not, makes me

wonder
exactly which flag you reside under, let alone that the fact appears to be
you are only concerned with what an employee action could do to your
"status" with an airline. How myopic!

Airline labor is facing tough and uncertain times right now. We have to
allow for the recognition of that fact. If the only participation you have
to offer is to take a one-sided approach to the known problems, then

perhaps
silence would be your true calling on airline/labor relations.




  #3  
Old October 30th, 2003, 04:30 AM
None
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

Actually, the airlines have hocked everything they own and have used much of
the money to fatten those golden parachute private retirement funds for
corporate executives. While deregulation may have been a disaster, the
airline executives used it for their own personal gains, including the 15
billion taxpayer bailout that the airlines pocketed and still fired over a
hundred thousand employees.

I understand why airline employees are miffed. At least they'll go down
kickin'


"Jeffrey Hacker" wrote in message
...
IMHO, this is all a result of 20 plus years of deregulation. Airline
employees make considerably less than before, and the airlines earn less.
Deregulation was a disaster.

Jeff

"None" wrote in message
ink.net...
From USAViation message boards:

You have to keep a very important thing in mind, regardless of your

loathing
for specific posters on this board who happen to be AA/FAs (or maybe not

who
really knows) labor has legitimate complaints, and labor has just as

much
of
a right, if not more, to vent as anyone else.

Do you know why AA just up and ended the SOS program? Because labor was
getting sick and tired of having to perform like trained dogs for a

stinkin'
coupon to get a little recognition out of a customer that they could not
otherwise get from their employer. The SOS program was a slap in the

face
to
every employee at AA who got one. I suppose to you, it's like tossing

your
dog a 'beggin strip' for making you happy. Just like those AAchiever

points,
they weren't worth the toilet paper they were printed on. AA wasn't
rewarding their employees with fair wages and fair labor practices, so

they
were forcing them to "perform" for the customers to get points, and hope
that the performance kept the customers coming back. Remember, those SOS
points weren't given to just any customer - I never used any, they went

in
the circular file.

As a frequent flyer with many miles, your tone seems to indicate to me

that
those miles have granted you some sort of status over AA employees or

anyone
else on board for that matter. It doesn't. I had those miles too, but I

cut
up the cards and shoved 'em up Don Carty's fanny long ago. They mean
nothing. Just like the SOS and AAchiever programs treated employees like
trained animals, the FF miles were AA's way of handing you a treat for
performing just as the airline wants you to.

I don't doubt your on-board story one bit, in fact, I've had similar
experiences. But that is exactly how karma works, sometimes it just
recognizes the fact that you are over due, or in need of a good karmic
bltch-slap, and sometimes it chooses an FA to deliver it. Sometimes it
chooses a cab driver, a hotel clerk, a bank teller, or the customer

service
rep on the phone at your favorite porno movie club!

This thread started out by someone posting a rumor-based "article"

regarding
the possibility of a sick out over the holidays. It didn't say

Thanksgiving,
Christmas, New Years, it was non-specific, which is why I questioned it

to
begin with. I realize that labor has some very legitimate complaints. I

see
them every time I fly now, on the faces of stressed out gate agents and
flight attendants who are so goddamned tired they can barely drag their
rollaboard behind them! For that "honor" they forked over astronomical,
never before heard of wage concessions and work rule changes, because
Carty-the-liar told labor that if they didn't, American would file
bankruptcy and they would all be left to the perils of a bankruptcy

judge
who would more than likely put them out of a job. All the while,
Carty-the-liar was secretly stuffing the pockets of the executive level
corporate elite, who all knew about it, and no doubt were sitting back
having a hefty chuckle at how stupid labor was for falling sucker to the
plan. Carty-the-liar stepped down in mock shame, and Arpey stepped up,
Arpey, who was in on, and benefited from the pocket stuffing. Nothing

has
changed, the pockets are still being filled, and million dollar golden
parachute pensions are still in tact yet the same people who put AA in

such
horrible shape are STILL in control. Nothing has changed except labor

has
been kicked in the balls delivered on a wing-tipped foot with a macabre
laugh.

Once the shield was removed from the truth of what Carty-the-liar had

done,
no one rushed to fix it, they decided instead to deliver even more blows

to
the labor force. Now, and it's no secret, the company has handed labor a
stripped down health care plan that has, among many other things, more

than
doubled and in some instances tripled the cost of their medications.

With
indifference to numerous complaints, the company has saddled labor yet

again
with another year of poor service from the prescription plan through

Medco
Health, a company fraught with bad management and charged with fraud by
authorities who cite that the company routinely falsified records and

made
false statements, alleging that Medco Health destroyed prescriptions to
avoid penalties for slowness in processing orders, put too few pills in
bottles and improperly switched patients' medicines. Yet a company like

that
is good enough for AMR's labor force - or so obviously believes AMR.

On top of the health care benefit farce, the company is currently in the
process of holding "focus group meetings" where carefully hand picked
"representatives" of agent groups throughout the company's various

stations
are being brought to Dallas to "vote" on making changes to the agent's
seniority status. The key being, that the company is looking for a way

to
strip long term seniority away from those highest/max paid agents in

order
to up them frightfully higher toward the top of the list of those

eligible
for furlough, while junior agents who haven't moved anywhere in the

company
yet, but are at low pay scales, will end up out ranking, seniority wise,
long term agents upon whose backs the company was built. Can you smell

it?
Wait for it . . . . here it comes . . . .and to top it all off, AMR is
investing HEAVILY into one-stop machines to bolster up an already in the
works plan (the focus groups are a front in my opinion) to make

astronomical
cuts in the non unionized agent work force and replace them with

one-stop
machines - every intent is to "automate the customer" through kiosks and

an
internet website that most of the time is so slow it more than likely

chases
away as many customers as it hooks. You'll end up with one agent per

gate
and no gate check-in capability. You'll be directed to a one stop

machine
for all your needs from check in, to seat assignments, flight changes,
voucher issues for voluntary and involuntary seat forfeits, meal and

hotel
vouchers for misconnects and flight cancellations and more and if the
customer can't figure it out, all the better for AA, who will reap

revenue
from unused tickets, and hundred dollar fees for re-issuing tickets for
people who missed their flights because they can't figure out how to do
complex transactions on a one stop machine, not to mention those who

will
be
waiting in the long lines behind them, wondering if the touch screen

will
be
clean enough to work by they time they get to it, and hope they don't

pick
something up from it when they get there. I can't see how AMR could

possibly
hope to automate every passenger and to make one stop machines that
understand every language, but my gut instinct says it's definitely in

the
works, the "customer training" has already begun. I've used one stop
machines, I hate them, they are error ridden filthy germ traps and you

can't
clean off the screens, it requires special solutions to do it.

Do I think a sick out would be a good idea at this point? No,

financially
it
would be a burden to AA. Do I think the flight attendants and/or gate

agents
have legitimate grievances that would warrant a sick out at this time?

Most
definitely. it is extremely unfortunate that it may come down to this,

but
labor has long grasped for a way to reach the ear of the employer, and
drastic times require drastic measures. Since AMR's Q3 revelation of 3.3
billion in cash, regardless of where it came from or how it was

acquired,
its turning a lot of employee's heads right now. I've heard the talk and

the
grumblings. This message board is representative of but a fraction of

the
available aviation related boards and groups on the net. It has nearly

3,000
members, yet a scant couple of dozen do all of the posting. Many read

this
message board, it doesn't require membership to do so. It is the

opinions
of
those silent majorities that we'll never know, but would most likely

speak
volumes if we did.

Customers like you, and me, and countless others, have dumped a lot of

money
into AA, and that's a lot of money that AA does NOT want to share with

the
very labor force that made it possible for AA to get it. There will be

NO
dividends paid by this company for a very long time so I won't hear

about
the stockholders as a legitimate excuse for crapping all over labor.
Corporate, and their idiotic fare structures and silly programs keep
customers away. Labor, the front line "face" between company and

passenger
is what keeps customers coming back. The split second you forget that,

or
start tossing around chatter about the last trained dog you gave your

SOS
points to, the split second you start spouting off how much better you

are
than any of the employees taking care of you while you schmoozed your

way
from the back of the plane to the front - I really don't care how
self-important you think you are, or how well trained AA thinks they

have
you as a "loyal customer" the fact remains that when your nose goes in

the
air, you forget that you are snubbing the very people who make it

possible
for that corporate structure to put your name on a membership card so

they
can keep your dollars rolling into their coffers. I'm an investor, and I
recognize that, why can't you?

There are none more qualified to speak on the issue of AMR and it's

labor
relations than an employee, no matter how much you may disagree with

what
they have to say, they are a far better authority than you or I.

Regardless
of whether it be WRX or someone else, the very fact that you loathe

whatever
opinion they have to offer, be it one you agree with or not, makes me

wonder
exactly which flag you reside under, let alone that the fact appears to

be
you are only concerned with what an employee action could do to your
"status" with an airline. How myopic!

Airline labor is facing tough and uncertain times right now. We have to
allow for the recognition of that fact. If the only participation you

have
to offer is to take a one-sided approach to the known problems, then

perhaps
silence would be your true calling on airline/labor relations.






  #4  
Old October 30th, 2003, 05:00 AM
mrtravel
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Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up



Jeffrey Hacker wrote:

IMHO, this is all a result of 20 plus years of deregulation. Airline
employees make considerably less than before, and the airlines earn less.
Deregulation was a disaster.


You left out "consumers pay less"
=

  #5  
Old October 31st, 2003, 04:58 AM
Brian
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Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

mrtravel wrote:


You left out "consumers pay less"


Picky, picky.

We don't fly anywhere near the miles that many on this group do but
virtually every flight is at least 90% full; for most they are asking
for volunteers for bumping even if they don't need them.
  #6  
Old October 31st, 2003, 07:44 AM
mrtravel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

Brian wrote:

mrtravel wrote:



You left out "consumers pay less"



Picky, picky.

We don't fly anywhere near the miles that many on this group do but
virtually every flight is at least 90% full; for most they are asking
for volunteers for bumping even if they don't need them.


So, what's the problem
Sickouts are the cowardly way out.
Doesn't this also mean they are stealing sick pay?

  #7  
Old October 31st, 2003, 10:38 AM
None
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up


"mrtravel" wrote in message
...
Brian wrote:

mrtravel wrote:



You left out "consumers pay less"



Picky, picky.

We don't fly anywhere near the miles that many on this group do but
virtually every flight is at least 90% full; for most they are asking
for volunteers for bumping even if they don't need them.


They ask for bumping volunteers even if they don't need them? What a crock
that statement is!
Flights are fuller because airlines are flying fewer aircraft. Travel
hasn't picked up, available aircraft has shrunk making those still flying a
lot fuller than they were with the airlines old schedules and frequencies.

So, what's the problem
Sickouts are the cowardly way out.
Doesn't this also mean they are stealing sick pay?


How do you steal what you earned? If you ask me, it takes guts to stage or
participate in a sick out. It means you're willing to stand your ground and
stand up to an abusive employer.

This sick out idea, and the reasons behind it I would imagine go far deeper
than you could explore on a newsgroup. If you're worried about it, don't
fly over the holidays.


  #8  
Old October 31st, 2003, 04:30 PM
mrtravel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

None wrote


They ask for bumping volunteers even if they don't need them? What a crock
that statement is!


Not really, it's your ability to understand.

1. The flight is overbooked.
2. The airline people ask for volunteers in cases more people show up
than expected.
3. Less people show up and they do not need any or all of the volunteers.

Flights are fuller because airlines are flying fewer aircraft. Travel
hasn't picked up, available aircraft has shrunk making those still flying a
lot fuller than they were with the airlines old schedules and frequencies.


Travel has picked up in the past year. Maybe you have been sleeping??


So, what's the problem
Sickouts are the cowardly way out.
Doesn't this also mean they are stealing sick pay?



How do you steal what you earned?


Sick pay is available for use when you are SICK, not when you want to
take a job action that violates your contract agreement.

If you ask me, it takes guts to stage or
participate in a sick out. It means you're willing to stand your ground and
stand up to an abusive employer.


If you want to stand up against abuse, then strike or picket. Calling in
sick and collecting sick pay is theft.

  #9  
Old October 31st, 2003, 09:40 PM
Brian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

"None" wrote:


They ask for bumping volunteers even if they don't need them? What a crock
that statement is!


You've never been on a flight that appeared to be overbooked so
volunteers were asked for? Then not as many booked people showed up so
bumping wasn't necessary.
Do you sleep all the time or are you that oblivious?
  #10  
Old November 3rd, 2003, 04:58 AM
Gary L. Dare
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sick Out Talk Heats Up

mrtravel wrote:

Jeffrey Hacker wrote:

Deregulation was a disaster.



You left out "consumers pay less"



And have more flight options, or "had" at one time ...

As bad as 4 UA and 2 AA PDX-ORD non-stops per day
sounds, regulation would see maybe 2 + 1 starting at
$1000 for four weeks advance ... )-;

gld

 




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