TSA Incompetence Continues

http://www.isil.org/towards-liberty/tsa-outrage.html
NEW TSA OUTRAGE: FINES UP TO $10,000
06-04-05 excerpt

The Transportation Security Agency (TSA) - the government
department put in charge of airline security after 9/11 - has quietly
begun imposing fines on unwary passengers who attempt to board planes
with prohibited items.

Mojdeh Rohani of Boston discovered the new fines when she received
a bill in the mail from the TSA for $150 for carrying a silver-plated
cake service in her carry-on bag.

She was lucky. The TSA can now impose administrative fines of up
to $10,000 for violating its rules.

Other passengers have been prevented from boarding planes and
in some cases arrested for carrying paperback books with "violent
pictures" on the cover . . . T-shirts with political comments ...Even
worse, rules can vary from airport to airport or even from screener to
screener at the same airport.

...The new TSA fines should help to pay the salaries of TSA's
"professional screeners" - which are triple the amount paid to private
screeners in the days before the TSA.

In addition...dozens of TSA agents have been charged with stealing
cash from passengers wallets, and laptop computers, cameras, jewelry and
other expensive property from their baggage. Over 7,000 complaints are
currently pending against the TSA.

And to contest a TSA administrative fine, you will be required to
travel repeatedly to the airport whether the fine was imposed...

And if you are thinking of suing TSA thieves in a state or federal
court, think again. As government employees TSA agents have sovereign
immunity from lawsuit no matter how arbitrary their decisions and how
much they steal.

To add insult to injury, recent studies show that even more guns
and knives are getting through security stations than before 9/11 -
making the TSA an abject and very expensive failure.

Jim wrote:
The Transportation Security Agency (TSA) - the government
department put in charge of airline security after 9/11 - has quietly
begun imposing fines on unwary passengers who attempt to board planes
with prohibited items.

She was lucky. The TSA can now impose administrative fines of up
to $10,000 for violating its rules.

Other passengers have been prevented from boarding planes and
in some cases arrested for carrying paperback books with "violent
pictures" on the cover . . . T-shirts with political comments ...

I'm looking forward to when they try to fine me for wearing a t-shirt with a
political comment.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

"Miguel Cruz" wrote...

I'm looking forward to when they try to fine me for wearing a t-shirt with
a
political comment.


No, they'll just beat you severely, obscuring the shirts political message
with blood.

I always laugh when passing through the local airport to see that a woman
who is maried one of the town's great civil libertarian activist Democrats
(hitherto only sporadically able to support his family and even then
marginally) has taken a job in the ranks of the TSA, proving that hungry
kids overcomes even powerful idealism.

That any here marvel at the fact that the TSA staff seems high on the
"doofuss" factor, the answer remains pretty simple....Just who takes that
level job - with no chance for advancement - with the federal
government....a fair number of middle aged white guys (and some women) made
redundant by modest performance or work habits and a scattering of
minorities not otherwise well placed in the job market. While not the
employment of last resort represented by some of the old airport
"rentacops", the lower ranks of the TSA do not attract brain surgeons and
the like.

TMO

TOliver wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote...


I'm looking forward to when they try to fine me for wearing a t-shirt with
a
political comment.



No, they'll just beat you severely, obscuring the shirts political message
with blood.

I always laugh when passing through the local airport to see that a woman
who is maried one of the town's great civil libertarian activist Democrats
(hitherto only sporadically able to support his family and even then
marginally) has taken a job in the ranks of the TSA, proving that hungry
kids overcomes even powerful idealism.

That any here marvel at the fact that the TSA staff seems high on the
"doofuss" factor, the answer remains pretty simple....Just who takes that
level job - with no chance for advancement - with the federal
government....a fair number of middle aged white guys (and some women) made
redundant by modest performance or work habits and a scattering of
minorities not otherwise well placed in the job market. While not the
employment of last resort represented by some of the old airport
"rentacops", the lower ranks of the TSA do not attract brain surgeons and
the like.

TMO


A couple of years ago I was going through the security line and the guy
ahead of me had a small oscilloscope in a hardened case that he was
carrying onboard (I guess we was an engineer or tech). That really threw
the TSA brain surgeons for a loop. The first one took several tries to
pronounce what is was ("ahs-keel-ooooh-ahh-scoop?"), never quite getting
it right. The next one asked "oh, is that one of those things you use to
look at bones with?". They then went on to spend several more minutes
analyzing this (to them) exotic contraption, and extensively questioned
the owner of it, a person who was obviously a suspicious character for
carrying such a thing. Yes, I really feel safe with these sharp
individuals in charge of airport security. Your average junior high kid
should have a rough idea of what an oscilloscope is and what is used
for. But not these nimrods.

Jim wrote:

A couple of years ago I was going through the security line and
the guy ahead of me had a small oscilloscope in a hardened case

I don't have a problem specifically with TSA goons not knowing what an
oscilloscope is (or any number of technical devices that the passenger
would rather bring on-board rather than risking it being stolen or
dammaged by other gorillas in the bowels of the airport).

I do have a problem (and so should the airlines) that such high-value
passengers are thinking twice about flying when confronted with the
russian roulette of possibly being told at the 11'th hour that they
can't bring something on-board - not because it violates size or
weight restrictions for a carry-on.

It could be that the TSA has been trained to apply a little "pressure"
to the pax in question when confronted with such an unknown item.

Most of what happens at the security screening station is
psychological, designed to make a real badguy (tm) crack under the
pressure and give himself away.

In article , Fly Guy wrote:

€ Jim wrote:
€
€ A couple of years ago I was going through the security line and
€ the guy ahead of me had a small oscilloscope in a hardened case
€
€ I don't have a problem specifically with TSA goons not knowing what an
€ oscilloscope is (or any number of technical devices that the passenger
€ would rather bring on-board rather than risking it being stolen or
€ dammaged by other gorillas in the bowels of the airport).
€
€ I do have a problem (and so should the airlines) that such high-value
€ passengers are thinking twice about flying when confronted with the
€ russian roulette of possibly being told at the 11'th hour that they
€ can't bring something on-board - not because it violates size or
€ weight restrictions for a carry-on.
€
€ It could be that the TSA has been trained to apply a little "pressure"
€ to the pax in question when confronted with such an unknown item.
€
€ Most of what happens at the security screening station is
€ psychological, designed to make a real badguy (tm) crack under the
€ pressure and give himself away.

Yes, but it's being done by people who's last adult job involved the
question, "would you like fries with that?" They wouldn't recognize a
real terrorist (tm) if he was wearing a sign.

Alan Street wrote:

€ Most of what happens at the security screening station is
€ psychological, designed to make a real badguy (tm) crack under
€ the pressure and give himself away.

Yes, but it's being done by people who's last adult job involved
the question, "would you like fries with that?"

While that is the popular impression of the TSA, and I by no means
appreciate or respect the TSA security agents when I encounter them,
you've got to realize that (a) the stuff they do, and the way they do
it, is being formulated by psuedo-public-servants who are
un-accountable and who we will never see and who are insulated from
public scrutiny (and anger). (b) in order to do what they do, they
must come across as authoritative, un-yielding, and (generally) as
pricks. So they are either selected with that personality trait, or
they learn it on the job. The exact opposite of someone you'd find
serving you at McDonalds.

They wouldn't recognize a real terrorist (tm) if he was wearing
a sign.

Which points out a couple of interesting facts about what really
happens at the security checkpoint:

1) The security checkpoint is not designed, nor is it's purpose, to
detect dangerous items. It's only purpose is it's very existance. It
(and other things that happen at an airport) are designed to *deter*
bad guys from doing bad things. If I create a cardboard police car
and put it beside a road, people will slow down. The cardboard police
car will not catch speeders, but it will make people slow down to the
legal speed limit. The security checkpoint at an airport is not
designed to detect exposives or guns. The agents who operate the
checkpoints are given no training as to how to secure weapons that
*may* be detected, or detain the people who are carrying them.

2) If you don't do something often enough, you will never do it well.
Look around. We have police, fire-fighters, EMS workers, emergency
room doctors, etc. They are good at what they do because the stuff
they do happens just often enough for them to learn to do it well. In
fact, fire fighters and police actually may not do their stuff often
enough to be able to do it well when they really have to. That's why
we see cops doing bad things because they can't control their
adreneline during real incidents. What does that have to do with the
TSA? Plenty. They NEVER get to actually detect a real explosive
device or deal with someone trying to get through a security arch with
a weapon. Millions upon millions of people go through security
screening stations each year, and all of them are false alarms. So
because several would-be terrorists aren't trying to pass through an
airport security screening station at least once a day, the TSA agents
can never really become good at what they do. But then again, they
don't have to. Their very presence is enough to create the desired
deterrent effect. They detect thousands of small sharp objects every
day to further the illusion of effectivness. If they were really
expected to detect weapons and explosives then they'd all be wearing
bomb suits and there would be dogs and armed guards at every station
and they'd be treating every passenger and every screened item like it
was radioactive. Would you put a potential bomb on a conveyor belt
and let it rattle along with a bunch of other stuff and get hit with
high-powered x-rays? Would you rummage through someone's checked bag
with only a rubber glove to protect you? (from a bomb, that is).

Fly Guy-

You have no idea how wrong you are on some of your points...

A security checkpoint is absolutely designed to detect certain dangerous
items. By it's very nature, a checkpoint containing x-ray machines,
walk-through metal detectors, and "puffers" ( or "sniffers" ) is intended to
identify certain prohibited items. Will the equipment catch everything? No.
Will the equipment catch most prohibited items? Yes. While I don't work for
the TSA, I have first-hand experience with the equipment.

Furthermore, your point about TSA training and prohibited item detection is
also wrong. To the best of my knowledge, and I know it to be a fact about AT
LEAST one x-ray manufacturer, the x-ray machine includes an automated
program intended to "insert" false images of prohibited objects into the
real image of an item being x-rayed. These false images are of real objects
( guns, knives, explosives ) to keep the screeners on their toes.
Additionally, data are kept on the performance of the screeners, the data
"rolled up" and compiled at TSA headquarters for evaluation. So your
statement about "NEVER get to actually detect a real explosive device or
deal with someone trying to get through a security arch with a weapon" is
untrue. Period.

Your statement: "If they were really expected to detect weapons and
explosives then they'd all be wearing bomb suits and there would be dogs and
armed guards at every station" indicates to me that you are lacking real
world experience in security and TSA procedures. The TSA personnel ARE
trained to detect weapons and explosives using the x-ray machines and
walk-through metal detectors. They have procedures to follow when those
items are detected. Those same procedures do not include handling or
disposal of explosive devices.

I have no illusions about the caliber of people hired by the TSA. I HAVE
however, been surprised at how many have had 'real' jobs in the past
including prior military, police, and technical positions. If you think of
them as people gainfully employed and stop thinking of them as automatons
and impediments, you might have a different perspective.

LH


"Fly Guy" wrote in message ...
Alan Street wrote:

? Most of what happens at the security screening station is
? psychological, designed to make a real badguy (tm) crack under
? the pressure and give himself away.

Yes, but it's being done by people who's last adult job involved
the question, "would you like fries with that?"

While that is the popular impression of the TSA, and I by no means
appreciate or respect the TSA security agents when I encounter them,
you've got to realize that (a) the stuff they do, and the way they do
it, is being formulated by psuedo-public-servants who are
un-accountable and who we will never see and who are insulated from
public scrutiny (and anger). (b) in order to do what they do, they
must come across as authoritative, un-yielding, and (generally) as
pricks. So they are either selected with that personality trait, or
they learn it on the job. The exact opposite of someone you'd find
serving you at McDonalds.

They wouldn't recognize a real terrorist (tm) if he was wearing
a sign.

Which points out a couple of interesting facts about what really
happens at the security checkpoint:

1) The security checkpoint is not designed, nor is it's purpose, to
detect dangerous items. It's only purpose is it's very existance. It
(and other things that happen at an airport) are designed to *deter*
bad guys from doing bad things. If I create a cardboard police car
and put it beside a road, people will slow down. The cardboard police
car will not catch speeders, but it will make people slow down to the
legal speed limit. The security checkpoint at an airport is not
designed to detect exposives or guns. The agents who operate the
checkpoints are given no training as to how to secure weapons that
*may* be detected, or detain the people who are carrying them.

2) If you don't do something often enough, you will never do it well.
Look around. We have police, fire-fighters, EMS workers, emergency
room doctors, etc. They are good at what they do because the stuff
they do happens just often enough for them to learn to do it well. In
fact, fire fighters and police actually may not do their stuff often
enough to be able to do it well when they really have to. That's why
we see cops doing bad things because they can't control their
adreneline during real incidents. What does that have to do with the
TSA? Plenty. They NEVER get to actually detect a real explosive
device or deal with someone trying to get through a security arch with
a weapon. Millions upon millions of people go through security
screening stations each year, and all of them are false alarms. So
because several would-be terrorists aren't trying to pass through an
airport security screening station at least once a day, the TSA agents
can never really become good at what they do. But then again, they
don't have to. Their very presence is enough to create the desired
deterrent effect. They detect thousands of small sharp objects every
day to further the illusion of effectivness. If they were really
expected to detect weapons and explosives then they'd all be wearing
bomb suits and there would be dogs and armed guards at every station
and they'd be treating every passenger and every screened item like it
was radioactive. Would you put a potential bomb on a conveyor belt
and let it rattle along with a bunch of other stuff and get hit with
high-powered x-rays? Would you rummage through someone's checked bag
with only a rubber glove to protect you? (from a bomb, that is).

"Lester Higgins" wrote:
I have no illusions about the caliber of people hired by the TSA.

I could not help but be amused when one TSA screener looked
at my boarding pass, immediately called over a supervisor and
pointed at it. The supervisor calmly advised him, "That doesn't
concern us." It was the notation: "No FF Credit" in the corner
had worried the fellow. =R=

"Lester Higgins" wrote in message
news:%m4se.5610$6o4.4938@fed1read04...
Fly Guy-

You have no idea how wrong you are on some of your points...

A security checkpoint is absolutely designed to detect certain dangerous
items. By it's very nature, a checkpoint containing x-ray machines,
walk-through metal detectors, and "puffers" ( or "sniffers" ) is intended
to identify certain prohibited items. Will the equipment catch everything?
No. Will the equipment catch most prohibited items? Yes. While I don't
work for the TSA, I have first-hand experience with the equipment.

Furthermore, your point about TSA training and prohibited item detection
is also wrong. To the best of my knowledge, and I know it to be a fact
about AT LEAST one x-ray manufacturer, the x-ray machine includes an
automated program intended to "insert" false images of prohibited objects
into the real image of an item being x-rayed. These false images are of
real objects ( guns, knives, explosives ) to keep the screeners on their
toes. Additionally, data are kept on the performance of the screeners, the
data "rolled up" and compiled at TSA headquarters for evaluation. So your
statement about "NEVER get to actually detect a real explosive device or
deal with someone trying to get through a security arch with a weapon" is
untrue. Period.

Your statement: "If they were really expected to detect weapons and
explosives then they'd all be wearing bomb suits and there would be dogs
and armed guards at every station" indicates to me that you are lacking
real world experience in security and TSA procedures. The TSA personnel
ARE trained to detect weapons and explosives using the x-ray machines and
walk-through metal detectors. They have procedures to follow when those
items are detected. Those same procedures do not include handling or
disposal of explosive devices.

I have no illusions about the caliber of people hired by the TSA. I HAVE
however, been surprised at how many have had 'real' jobs in the past
including prior military, police, and technical positions. If you think of
them as people gainfully employed and stop thinking of them as automatons
and impediments, you might have a different perspective.

LH

Good Points LH;

Most of the problems, (Based upon my observations) are that the
American Traveler is not prepared for this. We have been
basically "unchallenged" for years. Now we're being told to
allow someone to rummage through our personal belongings.
It just doesn't set right with most folks. I have gotten used
to the procedure, and it doesn't bother me, unless I run into
one of the "Hard Core" inspectors. There *are* a few, and
they are the ones that are remembered.

My problems are with the "Behind the scenes" guys. When I
arrive on a job, I find that my tools & test equipment have been
haphazardly jammed into the cases and forced close. I run into
a *lot* of damage. In my eyes, those people are a band of
mindless idiots, with no respect for my profession. If you
unpack it for inspection, put it back like you found it. That's
all I ask, and it's not being done.

It's the few idiots, that make them all look bad.