If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
Since 37-seat Embraer ERJ-135 and 34-seat Fairchild Dornier 328JET
entered service in 1999, there has been no new development in this segment. Mitsubishi MRJ was orginally planned as a 30-50 seater in 2003 but it grew up to 70-90 seats in 2005 and it seems no manufacturer is seriously looking at the 30-40 seat segment at the moment. Will there be no new development in the 30-40 seat segment in the next 10 years and existing regionals such as Jetstream 31/41, Saab 340, EMB-120 Brasilia linger on until replaced by larger new planes? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT), Sunho
wrote: Since 37-seat Embraer ERJ-135 and 34-seat Fairchild Dornier 328JET entered service in 1999, there has been no new development in this segment. Mitsubishi MRJ was orginally planned as a 30-50 seater in 2003 but it grew up to 70-90 seats in 2005 and it seems no manufacturer is seriously looking at the 30-40 seat segment at the moment. Will there be no new development in the 30-40 seat segment in the next 10 years and existing regionals such as Jetstream 31/41, Saab 340, EMB-120 Brasilia linger on until replaced by larger new planes? I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but check out the various Canadair Regional Jets, which have 50 seats and up. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
On Sep 12, 11:48*am, Hatunen wrote:
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT), Sunho wrote: Since 37-seat Embraer ERJ-135 and 34-seat Fairchild Dornier 328JET entered service in 1999, there has been no new development in this segment. Mitsubishi MRJ was orginally planned as a 30-50 seater in 2003 but it grew up to 70-90 seats in 2005 and it seems no manufacturer is seriously looking at the 30-40 seat segment at the moment. Will there be no new development in the 30-40 seat segment in the next 10 years and existing regionals such as Jetstream 31/41, Saab 340, EMB-120 Brasilia linger on until replaced by larger new planes? I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but check out the various Canadair Regional Jets, which have 50 seats and up. -- * ************** DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * ** * * * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * * * * * ** My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * I am wondering if there will be any new 30-40 seater in the next 10 years. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
Hatunen wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but check out the various Canadair Regional Jets, which have 50 seats and up. The original 50 seat CRJ has long ago ceased production. The larger CRJ700 ad 900 are still being produced, and a -1000 has recently had its first test flight. The 70 seat Dash-8-400 is now quite popular. For smaller aircraft, the turboprops offer significant financial advantages and for short flights, the speed of the -400 isn't that much slower than that of jets. (it is faster than previous generations of Dash-8s.) The -400, with new engines and technology is prefered to the smaller -300 because in the end, it costs less to operate. Airlines seek to lower the cost per passenger and this means using larger aircraft where possible. Bombardier is now moving to develop a 100-130 seat aircraft because this si where it says the demand will be. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
On Sep 12, 2:25*pm, John Doe wrote:
Hatunen wrote: I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but check out the various Canadair Regional Jets, which have 50 seats and up. The original 50 seat CRJ has long ago ceased production. *The larger CRJ700 ad 900 are still being produced, and a -1000 has recently had its first test flight. The 70 seat Dash-8-400 is now quite popular. For smaller aircraft, the turboprops offer significant financial advantages and for short flights, *the speed of the -400 isn't that much slower than that of jets. (it is faster than previous generations of Dash-8s.) The -400, with new engines and technology is prefered to the smaller -300 because in the end, it costs less to operate. Airlines seek to lower the cost per passenger and this means using larger aircraft where possible. Bombardier is now moving to develop a 100-130 seat aircraft because this si where it says the demand will be. Larger aircraft's cost per available seat mile (cost divided by the multiplication of flight distance and seats) should indeed be lower than smaller aircraft's, but it would be unwise to use a 70-seater for a route that has less than 30 passengers, I guess. Then the question is how many routes will have less than 30 passengers per flight in future? If all airlines decide to serve routes that generate more than 50 passengers per flight, I believe it could open up opportunities for other transport means such as air taxi. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
In message
Sunho wrote: Larger aircraft's cost per available seat mile (cost divided by the multiplication of flight distance and seats) should indeed be lower than smaller aircraft's, but it would be unwise to use a 70-seater for a route that has less than 30 passengers, I guess. Then the question is how many routes will have less than 30 passengers per flight in future? Generally with less then 30 passengers, the airline is probably better halving the number of flights and mostly filling 70-seater planes. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
"Sunho" wrote in message ... Since 37-seat Embraer ERJ-135 and 34-seat Fairchild Dornier 328JET entered service in 1999, there has been no new development in this segment. Mitsubishi MRJ was orginally planned as a 30-50 seater in 2003 but it grew up to 70-90 seats in 2005 and it seems no manufacturer is seriously looking at the 30-40 seat segment at the moment. Will there be no new development in the 30-40 seat segment in the next 10 years and existing regionals such as Jetstream 31/41, Saab 340, EMB-120 Brasilia linger on until replaced by larger new planes? I doubt it. With the current state of fuel prices, even 50 seat jet airplanes are not cost effective. It is much more likely that this size of airple will stay with updated versions of the Dash 8 (or the "Q" series), and the ATR. Jeff |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
On Sep 13, 8:16*am, "Jeff Hacker" wrote:
"Sunho" wrote in message ... Since 37-seat Embraer ERJ-135 and 34-seat Fairchild Dornier 328JET entered service in 1999, there has been no new development in this segment. Mitsubishi MRJ was orginally planned as a 30-50 seater in 2003 but it grew up to 70-90 seats in 2005 and it seems no manufacturer is seriously looking at the 30-40 seat segment at the moment. Will there be no new development in the 30-40 seat segment in the next 10 years and existing regionals such as Jetstream 31/41, Saab 340, EMB-120 Brasilia linger on until replaced by larger new planes? I doubt it. *With the current state of fuel prices, even 50 seat jet airplanes are not cost effective. *It is much more likely that this size of airple will stay with updated versions of the Dash 8 (or the "Q" series), and the ATR. Jeff OK, what would be the threshold size of a cost effective new airliner with $100 per barrel fuel prices? 70 seats? 90 seats? |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
"Sunho" wrote in message ... On Sep 13, 8:16 am, "Jeff Hacker" wrote: "Sunho" wrote in message ... Since 37-seat Embraer ERJ-135 and 34-seat Fairchild Dornier 328JET entered service in 1999, there has been no new development in this segment. Mitsubishi MRJ was orginally planned as a 30-50 seater in 2003 but it grew up to 70-90 seats in 2005 and it seems no manufacturer is seriously looking at the 30-40 seat segment at the moment. Will there be no new development in the 30-40 seat segment in the next 10 years and existing regionals such as Jetstream 31/41, Saab 340, EMB-120 Brasilia linger on until replaced by larger new planes? I doubt it. With the current state of fuel prices, even 50 seat jet airplanes are not cost effective. It is much more likely that this size of airple will stay with updated versions of the Dash 8 (or the "Q" series), and the ATR. Jeff OK, what would be the threshold size of a cost effective new airliner with $100 per barrel fuel prices? 70 seats? 90 seats? Not sure. You might want to post to misc.transport.air-industry as that NG tends to get the more technical questions. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
New 30-40 seats regional?
Jeff Hacker wrote:
OK, what would be the threshold size of a cost effective new airliner with $100 per barrel fuel prices? 70 seats? 90 seats? There is another issue to consider. During the .com bubble (when airlines also had their bubble), Bombardier spawned CRJ200s like mosquitos in a swamp. Production stopped for 2 reasons: after 9-11, airlines stopped growing their fleets before bombardier stopped making the puppy, and secondly, a few bankrupcies left enough CRJ200s in the used market to remove the need for new ones. The CRJ200 is a relatively young aircraft and it will be a while before airlines start to need a replacement for their CRJ200s. Meanwhile, to survive, Bombardier upscaled the CRJ to the -700 -900 and now-1000 models to try to get new markets (where Embraer has done better). The Dash-8 which had been on the verge of being shutdown got a sudden and unexpected boost due to rise in price of oil and all of a sudden, the -400 has had a renaissance. This is in part because of the acticve noise reduction system and new props that makes the plane far more comnfortable and feel less like a propellor airplane (aka: more acceptable to general public), as well as the significant economic advantage over jet powered planes in that size. Also, mpw that there are jetways capable of handling a Q400, it also makes the aircraft more palatable to the general public. While the renaissance of the Dash-8 is remarkable, it still isn't a widespread phenomena and the numbers are still relatively small. Note that there are developments in smaller aircraft. For insance, the venerable Twin Otter (Dash-6) was relaunched by a Victoria Canada firm (Viking air) who got the designs/rights from Bombardier and new new ones in about 2 years. This is a 19 passenger aircraft. It is used a lot in the caribean for inter island hops for instance (it can be fitted with floats, skis etc). However, this aircraft won't have huge performance gains over the original twin otter. And I guess this is one big reason you'd not seeing much activity in smaller aircraft: lack of new engines for aircarft that removes incentive to design a new aircraft since it would have about equal performance as the previous one. Also, below a certain size, you need to factor in the cost of having 2 pilots up front while smaller aircraft only need 1. Perhaps the 30-40 pax aircraft ends up costing more because it needs to be operated like a bike aircraft, but doesn'T carry enough passengers to warrant all the extra staff and operating costs. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Regional health gap 'is 30 years' | [email protected] | Europe | 0 | September 9th, 2007 09:06 AM |
Regional Trains NW of Milan | Richard[_2_] | Europe | 2 | July 26th, 2007 11:10 PM |
Regional Trains in Italy | [email protected] | Europe | 4 | January 26th, 2006 01:12 PM |
Regional jet crash question | Alan Street | Air travel | 5 | March 8th, 2005 08:30 PM |
Regional scents | Timmilne | USA & Canada | 11 | November 16th, 2004 03:59 AM |