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First Time on Safari to Africa Questions



 
 
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  #51  
Old December 12th, 2004, 12:37 AM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message . com
wrote:

Joel

The going rate for a similar safari is between $900 - $1000 in Kenya.
Too much driving though. To compare look at Southern Cross in Kenya -
very reputable.
http://www.southerncrosssafaris.com/...oad6nights.htm

They offer 6 nights @$1310 vs 5 nights at $1340 using the same lodges.
Most importantly, the Southern Cross safari is based on 2 people, not
6.
Basically you get a private safari for less than 2Afrika with their
group size of 6.


No.
What *minimum* 2 people means is that the tour won't run for one person, but
will run if there are only two people. It doesn't imply a private tour: just
that if you're lucky enough to be the only two people on the tour it will
still run. You could still have six people for the same price.
In fact, I don't even see a guarantee that there won't be more than six
people on the trip (the formula for that is "every passenger
guaranteed a window seat and access to the roof hatch)

However, I believe Southern Cross is a reliable company, dealing mostly with
Americans. I've often met their safari parties when travelling and haven't
heard of problems with them.

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"
  #52  
Old December 12th, 2004, 01:15 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Amazing! Thank you Liz.

I've never used agents on my trips so it was a good little exercise to
see what others are doing! My dealings with all local companies have
been super.

For me, it is important that most of my money is spent in the country
I'm in. On the other hand, one can argue that without overseas agents
many of these local outfitters will be out of business. So I understand
both sides of the issue! As long as I don't have to pay $600 more for
the same trip!

In the end, what's important is that we keep on going to Africa,
regardless of how much we pay!

BTW, on the whole, rates in East Africa are quoted and negotiated as
two people traveling together. If you are 3 or more, you will pay less.
The Rules of the Wild safari will cost closer to $800 for 6 people.

  #53  
Old December 12th, 2004, 01:15 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Amazing! Thank you Liz.

I've never used agents on my trips so it was a good little exercise to
see what others are doing! My dealings with all local companies have
been super.

For me, it is important that most of my money is spent in the country
I'm in. On the other hand, one can argue that without overseas agents
many of these local outfitters will be out of business. So I understand
both sides of the issue! As long as I don't have to pay $600 more for
the same trip!

In the end, what's important is that we keep on going to Africa,
regardless of how much we pay!

BTW, on the whole, rates in East Africa are quoted and negotiated as
two people traveling together. If you are 3 or more, you will pay less.
The Rules of the Wild safari will cost closer to $800 for 6 people.

  #54  
Old December 12th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message .com
wrote:

Amazing! Thank you Liz.

I've never used agents on my trips so it was a good little exercise to
see what others are doing! My dealings with all local companies have
been super.

For me, it is important that most of my money is spent in the country
I'm in.

I understand that pov as well, but I'm just not willing to spend a day or
two at the beginning of my trip trudging round agents in Nairobi. I don't
feel comfortable on my own in Nairobi (my husband much less so!) and want to
get out as quickly as possible.
Also because when I was travelling with my husband we normally went for
three or more weeks, this is logicistically more difficult - few drivers
like to travel for over two weeks.

From the UK you'd be nuts to book directly with a company in Africa and pay
in advance because our travel insurance doesn't cover it - they were bitten
several times by formerly reliable companies going out of business: PanAm
was the last straw. So you have to book with an ABTA agent or a ATOL
operator. Of course, it's Hans-Georg's risk assessment again: when we went
to the States for our 4-week SWDeserts trip, we did all the accommodation
booking online: in the States places only took one night's accommodation in
advance, so we stood to lose much less if one of the companies went
belly-up. Our travel insurance is much cheaper, though!



On the other hand, one can argue that without overseas agents
many of these local outfitters will be out of business. So I understand
both sides of the issue! As long as I don't have to pay $600 more for
the same trip!

My current problem is that I don't see why I should have to pay single
supplements in any lodge unless it's full: I've either never or possibly
once (Keekorok) stayed in a lodge which was full in early July, but they
still insist on whacking on a srs. I'm having to look at group tours [:-(],
and last year I saw one which said "srs from £50, no srs April-June". Of
course I noted the 'from', but was pretty shocked when the early July
supplement was over 350ukp.

Actually even the prices peaking then is ridiculous: admittedly last time we
went in 2002, a lot of Americans were nervous of travelling, but when you're
in a big lodge with only eleven people staying and you're paying peak season
prices you get rather resentful when you realise you could probably add five
or six days on to your trip if you weren't paying the peak prices.
Ironically, I've got at least three friends who would love to go on safari
(i.e. I could travel with one or more of them), but won't pay the peak
season prices.



BTW, on the whole, rates in East Africa are quoted and negotiated as
two people traveling together. If you are 3 or more, you will pay less.
The Rules of the Wild safari will cost closer to $800 for 6 people.

Normally brochure/online prices are for 'seats on a bus'.
As I said, if you're lucky, you might get the bus on your own.
If you wanted to guarantee a private trip, you might as well get a proper
tailor-made trip and specify exactly where and for how long you will stay.

My friends got lucky and were only two on a 'brochure safari' when they were
in Uganda, and I was one of only three on my Namibia trip: good for me, but
if I hadn't gone, the other couple would have had the vehicle/guide to
themselves, so not-so-good for them. The brochure said, "Maximum 8 people".

As I said, the buyer has to be aware of the wording of things.
I've said here before, Kuoni a few years back had a Just Tanzania brochure
which seemed to be offering phenomenal prices on safaris.
Most first-timers wouldn't have been aware of it, but if you read the
itineraries carefully, you weren't getting all that many bangs for your bucks.
It was full of things like:
Tuesday: What will you do this morning: laze around the pool or go on a game
drive?
Thursday: This afternoon, take a walk around the grounds (described) or go
on a game drive. The choice is yours.
Of course, on each of these days, if you chose the game drive, you had to
pay extra, and go on the lodge vehicle, I think about 60USD a time!
This was pointed out in the small print, but I suspect a lot of people
wouldn't twig this, and thought they had a 'free option'.
Not illegal, but IMO deliberately misleading: a cheap safari, but the 8-day
one only included 4 or 5 game drives and a balloon trip.

Anyway, as you say, each to his/her own.

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at
http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"
  #55  
Old December 12th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message .com
wrote:

Amazing! Thank you Liz.

I've never used agents on my trips so it was a good little exercise to
see what others are doing! My dealings with all local companies have
been super.

For me, it is important that most of my money is spent in the country
I'm in.

I understand that pov as well, but I'm just not willing to spend a day or
two at the beginning of my trip trudging round agents in Nairobi. I don't
feel comfortable on my own in Nairobi (my husband much less so!) and want to
get out as quickly as possible.
Also because when I was travelling with my husband we normally went for
three or more weeks, this is logicistically more difficult - few drivers
like to travel for over two weeks.

From the UK you'd be nuts to book directly with a company in Africa and pay
in advance because our travel insurance doesn't cover it - they were bitten
several times by formerly reliable companies going out of business: PanAm
was the last straw. So you have to book with an ABTA agent or a ATOL
operator. Of course, it's Hans-Georg's risk assessment again: when we went
to the States for our 4-week SWDeserts trip, we did all the accommodation
booking online: in the States places only took one night's accommodation in
advance, so we stood to lose much less if one of the companies went
belly-up. Our travel insurance is much cheaper, though!



On the other hand, one can argue that without overseas agents
many of these local outfitters will be out of business. So I understand
both sides of the issue! As long as I don't have to pay $600 more for
the same trip!

My current problem is that I don't see why I should have to pay single
supplements in any lodge unless it's full: I've either never or possibly
once (Keekorok) stayed in a lodge which was full in early July, but they
still insist on whacking on a srs. I'm having to look at group tours [:-(],
and last year I saw one which said "srs from £50, no srs April-June". Of
course I noted the 'from', but was pretty shocked when the early July
supplement was over 350ukp.

Actually even the prices peaking then is ridiculous: admittedly last time we
went in 2002, a lot of Americans were nervous of travelling, but when you're
in a big lodge with only eleven people staying and you're paying peak season
prices you get rather resentful when you realise you could probably add five
or six days on to your trip if you weren't paying the peak prices.
Ironically, I've got at least three friends who would love to go on safari
(i.e. I could travel with one or more of them), but won't pay the peak
season prices.



BTW, on the whole, rates in East Africa are quoted and negotiated as
two people traveling together. If you are 3 or more, you will pay less.
The Rules of the Wild safari will cost closer to $800 for 6 people.

Normally brochure/online prices are for 'seats on a bus'.
As I said, if you're lucky, you might get the bus on your own.
If you wanted to guarantee a private trip, you might as well get a proper
tailor-made trip and specify exactly where and for how long you will stay.

My friends got lucky and were only two on a 'brochure safari' when they were
in Uganda, and I was one of only three on my Namibia trip: good for me, but
if I hadn't gone, the other couple would have had the vehicle/guide to
themselves, so not-so-good for them. The brochure said, "Maximum 8 people".

As I said, the buyer has to be aware of the wording of things.
I've said here before, Kuoni a few years back had a Just Tanzania brochure
which seemed to be offering phenomenal prices on safaris.
Most first-timers wouldn't have been aware of it, but if you read the
itineraries carefully, you weren't getting all that many bangs for your bucks.
It was full of things like:
Tuesday: What will you do this morning: laze around the pool or go on a game
drive?
Thursday: This afternoon, take a walk around the grounds (described) or go
on a game drive. The choice is yours.
Of course, on each of these days, if you chose the game drive, you had to
pay extra, and go on the lodge vehicle, I think about 60USD a time!
This was pointed out in the small print, but I suspect a lot of people
wouldn't twig this, and thought they had a 'free option'.
Not illegal, but IMO deliberately misleading: a cheap safari, but the 8-day
one only included 4 or 5 game drives and a balloon trip.

Anyway, as you say, each to his/her own.

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at
http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"
  #56  
Old December 12th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message .com
wrote:

Amazing! Thank you Liz.

I've never used agents on my trips so it was a good little exercise to
see what others are doing! My dealings with all local companies have
been super.

For me, it is important that most of my money is spent in the country
I'm in.

I understand that pov as well, but I'm just not willing to spend a day or
two at the beginning of my trip trudging round agents in Nairobi. I don't
feel comfortable on my own in Nairobi (my husband much less so!) and want to
get out as quickly as possible.
Also because when I was travelling with my husband we normally went for
three or more weeks, this is logicistically more difficult - few drivers
like to travel for over two weeks.

From the UK you'd be nuts to book directly with a company in Africa and pay
in advance because our travel insurance doesn't cover it - they were bitten
several times by formerly reliable companies going out of business: PanAm
was the last straw. So you have to book with an ABTA agent or a ATOL
operator. Of course, it's Hans-Georg's risk assessment again: when we went
to the States for our 4-week SWDeserts trip, we did all the accommodation
booking online: in the States places only took one night's accommodation in
advance, so we stood to lose much less if one of the companies went
belly-up. Our travel insurance is much cheaper, though!



On the other hand, one can argue that without overseas agents
many of these local outfitters will be out of business. So I understand
both sides of the issue! As long as I don't have to pay $600 more for
the same trip!

My current problem is that I don't see why I should have to pay single
supplements in any lodge unless it's full: I've either never or possibly
once (Keekorok) stayed in a lodge which was full in early July, but they
still insist on whacking on a srs. I'm having to look at group tours [:-(],
and last year I saw one which said "srs from £50, no srs April-June". Of
course I noted the 'from', but was pretty shocked when the early July
supplement was over 350ukp.

Actually even the prices peaking then is ridiculous: admittedly last time we
went in 2002, a lot of Americans were nervous of travelling, but when you're
in a big lodge with only eleven people staying and you're paying peak season
prices you get rather resentful when you realise you could probably add five
or six days on to your trip if you weren't paying the peak prices.
Ironically, I've got at least three friends who would love to go on safari
(i.e. I could travel with one or more of them), but won't pay the peak
season prices.



BTW, on the whole, rates in East Africa are quoted and negotiated as
two people traveling together. If you are 3 or more, you will pay less.
The Rules of the Wild safari will cost closer to $800 for 6 people.

Normally brochure/online prices are for 'seats on a bus'.
As I said, if you're lucky, you might get the bus on your own.
If you wanted to guarantee a private trip, you might as well get a proper
tailor-made trip and specify exactly where and for how long you will stay.

My friends got lucky and were only two on a 'brochure safari' when they were
in Uganda, and I was one of only three on my Namibia trip: good for me, but
if I hadn't gone, the other couple would have had the vehicle/guide to
themselves, so not-so-good for them. The brochure said, "Maximum 8 people".

As I said, the buyer has to be aware of the wording of things.
I've said here before, Kuoni a few years back had a Just Tanzania brochure
which seemed to be offering phenomenal prices on safaris.
Most first-timers wouldn't have been aware of it, but if you read the
itineraries carefully, you weren't getting all that many bangs for your bucks.
It was full of things like:
Tuesday: What will you do this morning: laze around the pool or go on a game
drive?
Thursday: This afternoon, take a walk around the grounds (described) or go
on a game drive. The choice is yours.
Of course, on each of these days, if you chose the game drive, you had to
pay extra, and go on the lodge vehicle, I think about 60USD a time!
This was pointed out in the small print, but I suspect a lot of people
wouldn't twig this, and thought they had a 'free option'.
Not illegal, but IMO deliberately misleading: a cheap safari, but the 8-day
one only included 4 or 5 game drives and a balloon trip.

Anyway, as you say, each to his/her own.

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at
http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"
  #57  
Old December 12th, 2004, 02:29 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No Liz

It is amazing to hear you say that "you are nuts to book direct" from
the UK. The companies that go belly up are the agents - such as Far &
Wide and MyTravel. and not the reputable outfitter on the ground in
Africa who has been in business for 20-50 years! I guess you are right,
I would insist on ATOL or ABTA too if I book with an agent in the UK.

I had to smile when I look at the fixed itineraries from the UK
companies, including the one you're dealing with, and see they are
"spending 2 nights in Tarangire at the end of March 2005"! These agents
clearly book clients in places where THEY make the most profit, instead
of where the wildlife is! There is a good reason why they get good
rates in Tarangire at the end of March! Talk about misleading their
clients! Another case in point, Kuoni, who takes their unsuspecting
clients on the same itinerary year-round. And with all sorts of
disclaimers about couples having to split, using unpublished lodges,
minimum group size requirements, etc. Incredible, how do they stay in
business? I totally agree with you on that one.

You may be misinformed about safari rates and quality of service
performed by local companies. The local companies have fixed departures
for clients who have no idea where to go, and/or want to save money
with a group tour.

However, local companies specialize in arranging private trips, at
prices very close to the published costs and heavily negotiable. I will
never understand why people go on group tours with UK & USA-based
companies when they can go in private - for the same price (less in
some cases (think A&K) or a little more in others) - using the very
same ground operators as the overseas companies! And chances are the
clients won't end up in Tarangire for 2 nights at the end of March! I
have never used a group tour in Africa and I have never paid more than
the group tour prices in the agent brochures - which I get anyway just
to look at the pictures!

You can do your bookings over the phone and internet - your agent does
the same! No need to run around Nairobi looking for an outfitter!

The singles issue is a tough one. East Africa had a huge upswing in
2004 and certainly will again in 2005. With beds hard to come by, it is
understandable why the lodge owners don't want to place a single in a
double tent without surcharges between Jul-Sep. But when it is not
full, we should not have to pay that surcharge. Again, this is easy to
negotiate with a local company. 2Afrika, Kuoni and others add it on
year-round. Ridiculous.

  #58  
Old December 12th, 2004, 02:29 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No Liz

It is amazing to hear you say that "you are nuts to book direct" from
the UK. The companies that go belly up are the agents - such as Far &
Wide and MyTravel. and not the reputable outfitter on the ground in
Africa who has been in business for 20-50 years! I guess you are right,
I would insist on ATOL or ABTA too if I book with an agent in the UK.

I had to smile when I look at the fixed itineraries from the UK
companies, including the one you're dealing with, and see they are
"spending 2 nights in Tarangire at the end of March 2005"! These agents
clearly book clients in places where THEY make the most profit, instead
of where the wildlife is! There is a good reason why they get good
rates in Tarangire at the end of March! Talk about misleading their
clients! Another case in point, Kuoni, who takes their unsuspecting
clients on the same itinerary year-round. And with all sorts of
disclaimers about couples having to split, using unpublished lodges,
minimum group size requirements, etc. Incredible, how do they stay in
business? I totally agree with you on that one.

You may be misinformed about safari rates and quality of service
performed by local companies. The local companies have fixed departures
for clients who have no idea where to go, and/or want to save money
with a group tour.

However, local companies specialize in arranging private trips, at
prices very close to the published costs and heavily negotiable. I will
never understand why people go on group tours with UK & USA-based
companies when they can go in private - for the same price (less in
some cases (think A&K) or a little more in others) - using the very
same ground operators as the overseas companies! And chances are the
clients won't end up in Tarangire for 2 nights at the end of March! I
have never used a group tour in Africa and I have never paid more than
the group tour prices in the agent brochures - which I get anyway just
to look at the pictures!

You can do your bookings over the phone and internet - your agent does
the same! No need to run around Nairobi looking for an outfitter!

The singles issue is a tough one. East Africa had a huge upswing in
2004 and certainly will again in 2005. With beds hard to come by, it is
understandable why the lodge owners don't want to place a single in a
double tent without surcharges between Jul-Sep. But when it is not
full, we should not have to pay that surcharge. Again, this is easy to
negotiate with a local company. 2Afrika, Kuoni and others add it on
year-round. Ridiculous.

  #59  
Old December 12th, 2004, 02:29 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No Liz

It is amazing to hear you say that "you are nuts to book direct" from
the UK. The companies that go belly up are the agents - such as Far &
Wide and MyTravel. and not the reputable outfitter on the ground in
Africa who has been in business for 20-50 years! I guess you are right,
I would insist on ATOL or ABTA too if I book with an agent in the UK.

I had to smile when I look at the fixed itineraries from the UK
companies, including the one you're dealing with, and see they are
"spending 2 nights in Tarangire at the end of March 2005"! These agents
clearly book clients in places where THEY make the most profit, instead
of where the wildlife is! There is a good reason why they get good
rates in Tarangire at the end of March! Talk about misleading their
clients! Another case in point, Kuoni, who takes their unsuspecting
clients on the same itinerary year-round. And with all sorts of
disclaimers about couples having to split, using unpublished lodges,
minimum group size requirements, etc. Incredible, how do they stay in
business? I totally agree with you on that one.

You may be misinformed about safari rates and quality of service
performed by local companies. The local companies have fixed departures
for clients who have no idea where to go, and/or want to save money
with a group tour.

However, local companies specialize in arranging private trips, at
prices very close to the published costs and heavily negotiable. I will
never understand why people go on group tours with UK & USA-based
companies when they can go in private - for the same price (less in
some cases (think A&K) or a little more in others) - using the very
same ground operators as the overseas companies! And chances are the
clients won't end up in Tarangire for 2 nights at the end of March! I
have never used a group tour in Africa and I have never paid more than
the group tour prices in the agent brochures - which I get anyway just
to look at the pictures!

You can do your bookings over the phone and internet - your agent does
the same! No need to run around Nairobi looking for an outfitter!

The singles issue is a tough one. East Africa had a huge upswing in
2004 and certainly will again in 2005. With beds hard to come by, it is
understandable why the lodge owners don't want to place a single in a
double tent without surcharges between Jul-Sep. But when it is not
full, we should not have to pay that surcharge. Again, this is easy to
negotiate with a local company. 2Afrika, Kuoni and others add it on
year-round. Ridiculous.

  #60  
Old December 12th, 2004, 04:24 PM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message .com
wrote:

It is amazing to hear you say that "you are nuts to book direct" from
the UK. The companies that go belly up are the agents - such as Far &
Wide and MyTravel. and not the reputable outfitter on the ground in
Africa who has been in business for 20-50 years! I guess you are right,
I would insist on ATOL or ABTA too if I book with an agent in the UK.

You can't be an agent in the UK if you don't have the bondings, which cost a
*lot* of money.
This money is held in trust and refunded to the depositor if it isn't
needed, but s/he has to recoup this money by adding it onto the price. This
balances by us paying less in our overall travel insurance: for example I
pay 96ukp for annual insurance which covers myself and my husband (and
children under 18 if we had them) travelling together or separately, for all
travel of up to six weeks at a time worldwide (though cancellation is
limited to £5000). It excludes winter and dangerous sports, which isn't a
problem for us. (It would only be 74ukp pa (family) if we opted to exclude
the States.)


I had to smile when I look at the fixed itineraries from the UK
companies, including the one you're dealing with, and see they are
"spending 2 nights in Tarangire at the end of March 2005"! These agents
clearly book clients in places where THEY make the most profit, instead
of where the wildlife is!

The brochure/online safaris are just to give an idea of what's available and
what the cost might be. You can book these if you want, but really their
specialty is in tailor-making to what you want. I notice that this isn't
exactly clearly stated on the ETG site (it's there, but I had to look hard
for it!). I guess most people aren't up to designing their own trip,
especially on a first trip.
Also, by booking year-round trips with the lodges, the companies get
preferential rates, which they can pass on to their customers.

I've more than once thought up an itinerary and sent it to WWJE and
Catherine has got back to me and said, "I see you want X (accommodation): is
there a particular reason you want to stay at X, or would Y (which costs
Nukp less per night) do just as well?" (she knows price is an 'issue').
Usually I haven't heard of Y, so can check it out, and change if *I* want or
can stick with X if there's a reason I want to. Maybe she gets a better
profit from Y, but if it's cheaper for me and my experience is as good, I
don't mind.

If you're on a company's mailing list (at least here in the UK) you often
get mini-brochures or newsletters in with special offers which don't appear
on the main brochures, and don't always appear on their website: often trips
which haven't sold so well. Seldom happens in July, though. :-(

Also, if you get the paper brochures from either Kuoni or WWJE, there's a
two-page guide to weather and conditions in each.
E.g. the WWJE brochure has a chart with weather conditions for each of their
designations for the whole year. Sometimes, certain destinations are
unavialable, for example most/all? of the tiger reserves during the monsoon
season. Otherwise, each destination has ticks in the boxes where conditions
are best: you can go at other times if you want to, or can't afford to go at
peak time, or your holidays from work are rigid, but they are letting you
know clearly that it's not the best time to go there. The prices usually
reflect that.
The Kuoni weather charts list all their destinations with details of annual
monthly rainfall, max/min temperature averages and average hours of sunshine
in that month.
You are therefore in no way misled.


There is a good reason why they get good rates in Tarangire at the end of March!
Talk about misleading their clients!

If every company only went to the best places at every season, the prices
would rocket because most lodges would have a considerable down time with
only a few weeks to make any money, also demand would be sky-high because of
the high demand.



Another case in point, Kuoni, who takes their unsuspecting
clients on the same itinerary year-round. And with all sorts of
disclaimers about couples having to split, using unpublished lodges,
minimum group size requirements, etc. Incredible, how do they stay in
business? I totally agree with you on that one.

I was very pleased with our Kuoni safari which was our first trip.
Bangs for bucks, excellent value (on a group tour).
We did the two-week Leopard tour.
I don't actually have the Kuoni brochure for 2005, and am surprised that
they aren't publishing the names of their lodges. Until last year, they used
Block lodges almost exclusively in Kenya except for their Governor's Safari
or if a Block lodge wasn't available in a particular area.
The 'couples might have to split' is because the disadvantage of Kuoni is
that they can have up to seven on a minibus, meaning that the group should
play fair and rotate the person who's sitting the person beside the driver
with no access to the roof hatch.
In fact when we did the Leopard tour, we were 13 people in two minibuses.
Our bus had six people and the other bus had seven, three couples and a
single girl.
In fact, she seemed always to be sitting beside the driver, which she said
she didn't mind, but I thought was unfair.
Kuoni have huge numbers of Brits travelling with them. There were over 60 on
our flight alone, divided between lots of different safaris. They
consistently win awards from goth custmers and from within the trade.
However, they don't offer fully tailor-made safaris: you can pick and mix
from the different offering in their brochure, that's all.
Grief: their website is a nightma I just had a look.
It's technically and legally (UK law) inaccessible.



You may be misinformed about safari rates and quality of service
performed by local companies. The local companies have fixed departures
for clients who have no idea where to go, and/or want to save money
with a group tour.

I know that perfectly well.


However, local companies specialize in arranging private trips, at
prices very close to the published costs and heavily negotiable.

IME, they are *not* heavily negotiable in July.
Though obviously I haven't tried every company.
And because I'm travelling now on my own, it's not currently an option open
to me.


I will never understand why people go on group tours with UK

You've clearly closed your mind, then.

You can't understand much about your fellow human beings [1]
Also, travelling on my own isn't all that attractive.
On safari, you eat with your group.
I hate the 'ordeal by staring' which happens if you're dining on your own,
and while I can do it if I need to, the idea of eating on my own for 2-3
weeks isn't at all attractive. Therefore although it wouldn't be my
natural choice, I currently have to go on group trips. Imagine the cost of
having a tailor-made just for one - in July!
Sorry if my reality is unimaginable to you.

Clearly, the 'bonding' aspect is outwith your experience and you need
time to assimilate it, like I did when it finally dawned on me that the
bonding requirement we take for granted here *isn't* required in the Land of
the Litigatious.


& USA-based companies when they can go in private - for the same price
(less in some cases (think A&K) or a little more in others) - using the
very same ground operators as the overseas companies!

In my case, the discount on flights which the tour operator gets, compared
to e.g. buing a flight only from Trailfinders/whoever makes the total cost
equal, with a lot more comeback should things go wrong.
I understand from this group that things are different in the US, in
particular the bonding of travel agents and tour operators doesn't apply in
most states. That must give a totally different perspective on choices.


You can do your bookings over the phone and internet - your agent does
the same! No need to run around Nairobi looking for an outfitter!

And no protection should the company go belly-up after you book and pay, as
happened for example with African Tours and Hotels a few years back.
But if you booked through Kuoni (who at that time use them heavily) they
sorted it all out for you.

If the UK Govt says 'don't visit Kenya', if you're ABTA/ATOL covered in the
UK they'll either refund you or will arrange an alternative often at very
short notice.
What would your local Kenyan company do?
When a safari costs over 20% of your annual take-home salary, these things
are *real issues*!
Example:
Years ago, we were booked to go to Yugoslavia in October week.
The first we heard of the war there was when our colleague, who was going to
Yugoslavia the first day of the summer holidays was phoned at work by his
travel agent, less than three days before his trip to tell him that travel
from the UK to Yugoslavia had been suspended: the company had searched for
him and found a trip to Malta with two vacancies (peak time) for about £30
less and held it for him for eight hours, or else he could get a full
refund.

We got home and found a message on our phone from our travel agent, telling
us that the 'trouble' was expected to be long-term (it was still 14 weeks
'til our trip): could we wait until they'd dealt with the people with
immediate departures then they would check out alternatives. After about a
week, they'd sorted out three options: Corfu, mainland Greece or Turkey, or
we could have a refund. Corfu suited us fine, so we chose that.

Booking direct just doesn't give the same piece of mind.



The singles issue is a tough one. East Africa had a huge upswing in
2004 and certainly will again in 2005. With beds hard to come by, it is
understandable why the lodge owners don't want to place a single in a
double tent without surcharges between Jul-Sep.

In seven safaris in early July as I said, I've only once been in a lodge
which appeared to be full, but I don't know if every room was booked
(Keekorok) or if everyone just happened to hit the dinner table at the same
time.

But when it is not full, we should not have to pay that surcharge. Again,
this is easy to negotiate with a local company. 2Afrika, Kuoni and others
add it on year-round. Ridiculous.

Kuoni don't add the supplement year-round, or didn't until this year at
least: as I said, I don't have a 2005 brochure yet.
In fact I've never seen any UK company which had a srs except at the peak
seasons (July - early September plus Christmas).
I know nothing about 2Africa.

In any case, I'm stopping this discussion. It's becoming an argument, and
since the situation re bonding and protection are totally different in the
UK and in the US, we aren't even starting from the same position, so it's
all a bit pointless.

There are different strokes for different folks.

[1] Lots of people don't *want* to spend time planning trips and are happy to
choose one from the brochure.

Most are *perfectly* happy with what they got!
Also, a good recce trip
Even our former pupil who for cost reasons had to travel in the rainy
season: we met her by chance after she'd booked, and were a bit horrified
when we saw her itinerary - from the UK it's usually cheaper to fly charter
into Mombasa whereupon the deal is usually Shimba/Tsavo E & W and sometimes
Amboseli (hers didn't include Amboseli).
But she really loved it and is hoping to go again sometime.

When D. was travelling with me, one of my main pleasures was designing the
itinerary, but one of the drawbacks of that was choosing which places to
leave out - always a cause for sorrow!

Anyway, I'm working on a dreadful page on my website which I'd forgotten was
there, so must go now.

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at
http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"
 




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