First Time on Safari to Africa Questions

Wow! 13 people on safari in two minibuses. I am starting to sweat. This
is getting ugly! I have to leave this discussion!

Since you travel on your own a lot I will leave you with one point to
consider next time you come to Africa. Leave the large group of 60 at
home. Arrange a guide and go on safari with him. Stay at tented camps
or even do a camping safari. Why eat alone at night? Invite your guide
to dinner at night. Then talk to him about his culture, his family,
about wildlife and life in Africa.

This will be so much more meaningful than sharing a group table with 13
tourists.
Goodbye for now.

In message
(Jim Ley) wrote:

Oh, Hi Jim -
Hadn't realised you were still around here!

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:24:41 GMT, Liz wrote:

In message .com
wrote:

It is amazing to hear you say that "you are nuts to book direct" from
the UK. The companies that go belly up are the agents - such as Far &
Wide and MyTravel. and not the reputable outfitter on the ground in
Africa who has been in business for 20-50 years! I guess you are right,
I would insist on ATOL or ABTA too if I book with an agent in the UK.
You can't be an agent in the UK if you don't have the bondings, which cost a
*lot* of money.
This money is held in trust and refunded to the depositor if it isn't
needed, but s/he has to recoup this money by adding it onto the price. This
balances by us paying less in our overall travel insurance: for example I
pay 96ukp for annual insurance which covers myself and my husband (and
children under 18 if we had them) travelling together or separately, for all
travel of up to six weeks at a time worldwide (though cancellation is
limited to £5000). It excludes winter and dangerous sports, which isn't a
problem for us. (It would only be 74ukp pa (family) if we opted to exclude
the States.)

but this travel insurance requires you to only book with ATOL/ABTA
does it? because mine doesn't, and gives similar benefits at a
similar cost.

It doesn't actually say that anywhere in the policy, but I understood that
all UK travel insurance had this as a condtions.
No, correction, I thought that UK travel insurance doesn't insist that you
book ABTA/ATOL, but they won't cover you if a company goes bust.

It's the Risk-assessment thing.
I'm prepared to book Ryanair to Europe, but safari losses are much greater.


Further correction:
I just looked at my current insurance document, which was carelessly lying
about in one of my many heaps of paper...
1. It costs only £72pa worldwide for me, spouse/co-habiting partner, children
up to 18/21 if living at home.
2. 17 days winter sports in any policy year have been added.

However, lookkng at the 'Cancellation and Curtailment' section, there is no
mention of what happens if a company goes bust or the FCO advises against
travel. It only mentions health, jury/witness service, call-up for emergency
service, redundancy, making property safe and secure and unusable car (for a
driving holiday in your own car).
Under 'General Exclusions', I see that you're *not* covered for losses
occasioned by war, hositilities etc etc etc, nor for losses...as a result of
travelling to areas that the FCO have advised against...
But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.


Booking direct just doesn't give the same piece of mind.

but your travel insurance would have covered the same cancellation for
the same reason, sure you may have had to find the alternative
destination yourself, but that's not that difficult, and for a great
many people is actually a pleasure, at the very least you need to have
some idea of the place you're going to anyway so most of the effort is
equal in either case.
In our case that's true, although it was, in that particular instance,
serendipitous since Corfu turned out to be equally good for out purposes at
the time, and we hadn't known that.

In Sandy's case (loss of booking at very short notice during the peak travel
weekend from Scotland) it could have been much more difficult, and he was just
wanting somewhere quiet and warm, so it suited him fine.

The first time we decided to go on safari it was at very short notice at the
beginning of July (it's a long story) and we couldn't get flights: the
safari bit was OK but not the flights.
I sat for ages in a local travel agent as she phoned round all the places she
could think of, including going via Paris, Amsterdam etc etc (there's no
difference if you're starting from Glasgow, since you have to change in
London anyway).
After a couple of hours the girl said, "Why don't you go home and I'll keep
trying and phone you and let you know." The next morning she phoned with a
list of airlines she'd tried and failed to get a booking with - this really
surprised me as we had three clear weeks!
To be honest, I thought she'd got bored and had given up, so I spend the
next day going round some Glasgow agents, similarly without luck.

Given that Sandy had to be in work, and couldn't have trawled round agents
(and even now doesn't have a computer, and we're all still on dial-up here
anyway) I'm sure that having the agent to do the work was the best possible
scenario under the circumstances.
Of course, he had the option to take a refund and his chances.

Would an insurance company have paid up quickly enough for him to make
alternative arrangements?

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

In message
(Jim Ley) wrote:

Oh, Hi Jim -
Hadn't realised you were still around here!

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:24:41 GMT, Liz wrote:

In message .com
wrote:

It is amazing to hear you say that "you are nuts to book direct" from
the UK. The companies that go belly up are the agents - such as Far &
Wide and MyTravel. and not the reputable outfitter on the ground in
Africa who has been in business for 20-50 years! I guess you are right,
I would insist on ATOL or ABTA too if I book with an agent in the UK.
You can't be an agent in the UK if you don't have the bondings, which cost a
*lot* of money.
This money is held in trust and refunded to the depositor if it isn't
needed, but s/he has to recoup this money by adding it onto the price. This
balances by us paying less in our overall travel insurance: for example I
pay 96ukp for annual insurance which covers myself and my husband (and
children under 18 if we had them) travelling together or separately, for all
travel of up to six weeks at a time worldwide (though cancellation is
limited to £5000). It excludes winter and dangerous sports, which isn't a
problem for us. (It would only be 74ukp pa (family) if we opted to exclude
the States.)

but this travel insurance requires you to only book with ATOL/ABTA
does it? because mine doesn't, and gives similar benefits at a
similar cost.

It doesn't actually say that anywhere in the policy, but I understood that
all UK travel insurance had this as a condtions.
No, correction, I thought that UK travel insurance doesn't insist that you
book ABTA/ATOL, but they won't cover you if a company goes bust.

It's the Risk-assessment thing.
I'm prepared to book Ryanair to Europe, but safari losses are much greater.


Further correction:
I just looked at my current insurance document, which was carelessly lying
about in one of my many heaps of paper...
1. It costs only £72pa worldwide for me, spouse/co-habiting partner, children
up to 18/21 if living at home.
2. 17 days winter sports in any policy year have been added.

However, lookkng at the 'Cancellation and Curtailment' section, there is no
mention of what happens if a company goes bust or the FCO advises against
travel. It only mentions health, jury/witness service, call-up for emergency
service, redundancy, making property safe and secure and unusable car (for a
driving holiday in your own car).
Under 'General Exclusions', I see that you're *not* covered for losses
occasioned by war, hositilities etc etc etc, nor for losses...as a result of
travelling to areas that the FCO have advised against...
But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.


Booking direct just doesn't give the same piece of mind.

but your travel insurance would have covered the same cancellation for
the same reason, sure you may have had to find the alternative
destination yourself, but that's not that difficult, and for a great
many people is actually a pleasure, at the very least you need to have
some idea of the place you're going to anyway so most of the effort is
equal in either case.
In our case that's true, although it was, in that particular instance,
serendipitous since Corfu turned out to be equally good for out purposes at
the time, and we hadn't known that.

In Sandy's case (loss of booking at very short notice during the peak travel
weekend from Scotland) it could have been much more difficult, and he was just
wanting somewhere quiet and warm, so it suited him fine.

The first time we decided to go on safari it was at very short notice at the
beginning of July (it's a long story) and we couldn't get flights: the
safari bit was OK but not the flights.
I sat for ages in a local travel agent as she phoned round all the places she
could think of, including going via Paris, Amsterdam etc etc (there's no
difference if you're starting from Glasgow, since you have to change in
London anyway).
After a couple of hours the girl said, "Why don't you go home and I'll keep
trying and phone you and let you know." The next morning she phoned with a
list of airlines she'd tried and failed to get a booking with - this really
surprised me as we had three clear weeks!
To be honest, I thought she'd got bored and had given up, so I spend the
next day going round some Glasgow agents, similarly without luck.

Given that Sandy had to be in work, and couldn't have trawled round agents
(and even now doesn't have a computer, and we're all still on dial-up here
anyway) I'm sure that having the agent to do the work was the best possible
scenario under the circumstances.
Of course, he had the option to take a refund and his chances.

Would an insurance company have paid up quickly enough for him to make
alternative arrangements?

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

replying to my own post:


In message
Liz wrote:


But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.
Here it is:
Cancellation and Curtailment:
You are not covered for...
b. anything not included in 'You are covered' above.
Which means that I'm definitely not covered if the FCO advises cancelling a
trip so I do (be crazy not to: none of my travel insurance applies then
anyway), or somesuch.


Also:

General Exclusions...
You are not covered for claims arising out of...
18. The bankruptcy or insolvency of a tour operator, travel agent,
transport company or accommodation supplier.

19. A tour operator failing to supply advertised facilities.


Both of which would be covered by the ABTA/ATOL bond.


Anyway, I'm genuinely interested in finding out which UK insurer/s cover
both at a reasonable price: I honestly thought none did.
I live and learn.

Slainte

Liz
--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

replying to my own post:


In message
Liz wrote:


But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.
Here it is:
Cancellation and Curtailment:
You are not covered for...
b. anything not included in 'You are covered' above.
Which means that I'm definitely not covered if the FCO advises cancelling a
trip so I do (be crazy not to: none of my travel insurance applies then
anyway), or somesuch.


Also:

General Exclusions...
You are not covered for claims arising out of...
18. The bankruptcy or insolvency of a tour operator, travel agent,
transport company or accommodation supplier.

19. A tour operator failing to supply advertised facilities.


Both of which would be covered by the ABTA/ATOL bond.


Anyway, I'm genuinely interested in finding out which UK insurer/s cover
both at a reasonable price: I honestly thought none did.
I live and learn.

Slainte

Liz
--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:18:21 GMT, Liz wrote:

replying to my own post:
But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.
Here it is:
Cancellation and Curtailment:
You are not covered for...
b. anything not included in 'You are covered' above.
Which means that I'm definitely not covered if the FCO advises cancelling a
trip so I do (be crazy not to: none of my travel insurance applies then
anyway), or somesuch.

Interesting, I'd shop around, whilst my annual policy only covers me
for 2500 in cancellation (which is about 3 months by my normal travel)
it does specifically include FCO advising against travel to the
destination.

General Exclusions...
You are not covered for claims arising out of...
18. The bankruptcy or insolvency of a tour operator, travel agent,
transport company or accommodation supplier.

19. A tour operator failing to supply advertised facilities.

I can't find any exclusions like this, but I only searched for the
terms in the PDF, so it could be worded differently.

Anyway, I'm genuinely interested in finding out which UK insurer/s cover
both at a reasonable price:

The policy I've got is from Tesco...

Jim.

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:18:21 GMT, Liz wrote:

replying to my own post:
But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.
Here it is:
Cancellation and Curtailment:
You are not covered for...
b. anything not included in 'You are covered' above.
Which means that I'm definitely not covered if the FCO advises cancelling a
trip so I do (be crazy not to: none of my travel insurance applies then
anyway), or somesuch.

Interesting, I'd shop around, whilst my annual policy only covers me
for 2500 in cancellation (which is about 3 months by my normal travel)
it does specifically include FCO advising against travel to the
destination.

General Exclusions...
You are not covered for claims arising out of...
18. The bankruptcy or insolvency of a tour operator, travel agent,
transport company or accommodation supplier.

19. A tour operator failing to supply advertised facilities.

I can't find any exclusions like this, but I only searched for the
terms in the PDF, so it could be worded differently.

Anyway, I'm genuinely interested in finding out which UK insurer/s cover
both at a reasonable price:

The policy I've got is from Tesco...

Jim.

In message
(Jim Ley) wrote:

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:18:21 GMT, Liz wrote:

replying to my own post:
But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.
Here it is:
Cancellation and Curtailment:
You are not covered for...
b. anything not included in 'You are covered' above.
Which means that I'm definitely not covered if the FCO advises cancelling a
trip so I do (be crazy not to: none of my travel insurance applies then
anyway), or somesuch.

Interesting, I'd shop around, whilst my annual policy only covers me
for 2500 in cancellation (which is about 3 months by my normal travel)
it does specifically include FCO advising against travel to the
destination.

I usually find that either the cover is £3000 or less, or we both have to
travel together, or both. Or else it doesn't cover 'work' (could apply to D.)


General Exclusions...
You are not covered for claims arising out of...
18. The bankruptcy or insolvency of a tour operator, travel agent,
transport company or accommodation supplier.

19. A tour operator failing to supply advertised facilities.

I can't find any exclusions like this, but I only searched for the
terms in the PDF, so it could be worded differently.

Anyway, I'm genuinely interested in finding out which UK insurer/s cover
both at a reasonable price:

The policy I've got is from Tesco...
I could check it out.
They may have another policy coveing higher cancellations.
But then yours is more expensive already (I discovered mine cost less than I
thought).

Anyway, tx for the info

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

In message
(Jim Ley) wrote:

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:18:21 GMT, Liz wrote:

replying to my own post:
But I can't see just now (4 pages of A4 in small print!) anywhere it tells
you you're covered by the policy if you cancel a trip to an area the FCO
advises against, so I *suppose* you don't.
Here it is:
Cancellation and Curtailment:
You are not covered for...
b. anything not included in 'You are covered' above.
Which means that I'm definitely not covered if the FCO advises cancelling a
trip so I do (be crazy not to: none of my travel insurance applies then
anyway), or somesuch.

Interesting, I'd shop around, whilst my annual policy only covers me
for 2500 in cancellation (which is about 3 months by my normal travel)
it does specifically include FCO advising against travel to the
destination.

I usually find that either the cover is £3000 or less, or we both have to
travel together, or both. Or else it doesn't cover 'work' (could apply to D.)


General Exclusions...
You are not covered for claims arising out of...
18. The bankruptcy or insolvency of a tour operator, travel agent,
transport company or accommodation supplier.

19. A tour operator failing to supply advertised facilities.

I can't find any exclusions like this, but I only searched for the
terms in the PDF, so it could be worded differently.

Anyway, I'm genuinely interested in finding out which UK insurer/s cover
both at a reasonable price:

The policy I've got is from Tesco...
I could check it out.
They may have another policy coveing higher cancellations.
But then yours is more expensive already (I discovered mine cost less than I
thought).

Anyway, tx for the info

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:01:50 GMT, Liz wrote:

In message
Anyway, I'm genuinely interested in finding out which UK insurer/s cover
both at a reasonable price:

The policy I've got is from Tesco...
They may have another policy coveing higher cancellations.
But then yours is more expensive already (I discovered mine cost less than I
thought).

It's more expensive now than when I bought it too... and the
cancellation appears to be 5000 now too, but yes, it doesn't look so
competitive now.

Jim.