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#131
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
Arturo Magidin wrote: In article . com, wrote: Arturo Magidin wrote: So you wouldn't mind an 8' swastika, a symbol used in various current and recognised religions, either then? The nazi swastika is different from the symbol in eastern religions; the fold goes the other way. Who said anything about the nazi swastika? Fair enough. As I understand it, "swastika" refers to the nazi symbol; the hindu symbol is called "shubthika" (good symbol). Semantics. Do you think an 8' swastika-like symbol should be displayed at a US airport on hindu/budhist festivals ? Or a crescent moon and star on muslim ones (just as many muslims as jews in the US!)? Many of those that know a Menorah is the official emblem of the Israeli government would see it as a symbol of another invasion of territory. The Hanukyah (Hanukah-menorah) is different from the Menorah in the national emblem. Much like the star of David is different from the wiccan 5 pointed star. The Menorah in the national emblem is a seven-branched candelabrum. The Hanukyah, by contrast, is a nine-branched candelabrum. A minor detail. Hardly a minor detail. Just like only the official emblem of the american government must be a bald eagle, not just any kind of eagle, They vary greatly too, "A" bald eagle is used, not the same "one". so the national emblem of Israel must be a seven branched candelabrum; a Hanukyah -must- be a nine branched candelabrum. Quite simply, they are not the same thing. Just like the wiccan star and the Star of David are not the same thing. It's a *jewish, menorah* candelabre. If you want to object to a Hanukyah display on some other grounds, go ahead; we Who's "we"? can deal with those. ??? What do you want to make a deal about? But claiming that it is "the official emblem of the israeli government" is, quite simply, false. A menorah candelabre IS the official Israeli state emblem, are you saying it isn't? Do you know any other countries who use a religious symbol used in festivals as the national emblem? -- ================================================== ==================== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes" by Bill Watterson) ================================================== ==================== Arturo Magidin magidin-at-member-ams-org |
#132
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
Arturo Magidin wrote: In article . com, wrote: Arturo Magidin wrote: wrote: Mark K. Bilbo wrote: On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:02:49 -0800, Laura Sanchez wrote: Too bad Christianity doesn't return the favor. Excuse me? It's Christians that are the only ones defending Israel and denouncing anti-Semitism. By refusing to add a menorah to the airport display? It's not just some kind of festive decoration. The menorah is the NATIONAL EMBLEM OF THE "STATE" OF ISRAEL Like the eagle is to the US!: http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp You are confused. The Menorah, the symbol that appears in the official seal of the state of Israel, is a seven-arm candelabra; the Hanukiyah, the "Hanuka menorah" has a different number of arms. They are different emblems, just like the Star of David is different from the Wiccan five-pointed star. A minor detail, just like people will first think "nazi" when they see a swastika, no matter which way round it is. If that is your "argument" with regards to this, then you have just shot yourself in the foot. Not at all. The vast majority of americans identify the candelabrum (7- or 9-branched) with Hanukah, not with the state of Israel. They call both "menorah" (the former correclty, the latter incorrectly), and usually misidentify a 7 branched candelabrum as a Hanukyah and think "Hanukah". Few are aware of the difference, and the overwhelming association is that of the holiday, not the political association (exactly the opposite of the shubhtika, where most people will misidentify it as political rather than religious). In any case, you claimed that the 9-branch candelabrum -is- the "national emblem of the "State" of Israel". And that is, quite simply, false. Explain it away all you want now, you were still wrong. Liar. I never specified the amount of bloody candles of any menorah, so I am not wrong about any number. It's a menorah wether it's got seven or nine candles. A menorah is both the Israeli state symbol and the festive one, and I can think of quite a few people who would find it offensive, particularly at an international airport. -- ================================================== ==================== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes" by Bill Watterson) ================================================== ==================== Arturo Magidin magidin-at-member-ams-org |
#133
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
On 14-Dec-2006, "Mark K. Bilbo" wrote: On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:38:26 -0800, markzoom wrote: Mark K. Bilbo wrote: On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:02:49 -0800, Laura Sanchez wrote: Too bad Christianity doesn't return the favor. Excuse me? It's Christians that are the only ones defending Israel and denouncing anti-Semitism. By refusing to add a menorah to the airport display? It's not just some kind of festive decoration. The menorah is the NATIONAL EMBLEM OF THE "STATE" OF ISRAEL NO, IT IS NOT. The chanukiah "menorah" used at Chanukah has eight branches and one in the middle; the Israeli Menorah has six and one in the middle. It is distinctly different and for a reason that bigots like markzoom will never grasp - and on purpose. Like the eagle is to the US!: http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp I would find it highly offensive to have an 8 foot foreign state emblem displayed by legal imposition in my country. Which is, of course, why no one is suggesting it. But hey, maybe yanks should know who their real masters are. That's stupid. Yes, he is. Doesn't matter what it means in Israel, this isn't Israel. Here, many regard it as a religious symbol. If we're going to let one religious symbol be displayed on public property at public expense, we should let all of them be displayed. Exactly. Susan |
#134
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
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#135
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
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#136
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
On 14-Dec-2006, "Robibnikoff" wrote: "Laura Sanchez" wrote in message ups.com... Too bad Christianity doesn't return the favor. Excuse me? It's Christians that are the only ones defending Israel and denouncing anti-Semitism. Excuse me? Christians used to burn Jews at the stake. I' m betting that Laura is relying solely on a specialized definition of Xian - as in, no true Xian would ever do that.... Susan |
#137
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
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#138
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
On 14-Dec-2006, "Sancho Panza" wrote: "Tchiowa" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: On 13-Dec-2006, " wrote: James A. Donald wrote: But you guys are trying to suppress even the secular aspects of Christmas - you were suing against the display of Christmas trees Who was suing against what display of Xmas trees? The ones in SEATAC?\ Even if anyone was - which no one is doing - the proof that the trees and all the other attendent crap really is NOT secular is that it is ONLY brought out AT XMAStime. ???? Did you think that Christmas trees should be brought out on the 4th of July? Thanks for admitting that they are, indeed, religious symbols of one religion only. There is an undoubtedly religious side to Christmas. Trees are not part of that. Trees are part of the secular side. Of the religious holiday, yes. Thanks for admitting it again. The Rabbi complained about trees. The rabbi didn't complain about the trees. He made a request for his own display. Quite a difference there. Not that he'll ever admit to it - that would get in the way of his hatred and lies. Susan |
#139
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
On 14-Dec-2006, James A. Donald wrote: James A. Donald: But Xmastime is the time of the return of the sun - it follows the shortest day of the year. Nothing directly to do, except symbolically, with the birth of that notorious Jewish heretic that you seem to be so remarkably upset by. Mike Hunt That is the point. It is symbolically linked to the birth of Christ, hence the name of the holiday. But then, your basic grievance, or flavia's basic grievance, is having a holiday on christmas, You know you've lost more than the argument when you have to tell such major whoppers like this. Even if you don't admit it - WE know it. Susan hence the impossibility of appeasing the lawsuit mongers by any lesser measure. |
#140
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Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport
wrote: On 14-Dec-2006, wrote: However, if it is tragically and incorrectly decided in the courts that to display Christmas trees is to endorse Christianity, then Christmas trees should be removed rather than overtly religious displays such as menorahs, Menorahs have been deemed secular by the courts who have also deemed the trees as secular, too, even tho' neither is. Excellent. Then it should be perfectly fine to display just menorahs, just Christmas trees, or both, or neither, without any implications or any basis for lawsuits. Thus there is no basis for complaint that Christmas trees and not menorahs were displayed. To complain about such a think is like complaining that banana trees and not orange trees were displayed. |
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