US going metric?

"Alan Pollock" wrote in message
...
Chris the Liberal wrote:
In some locations, in national parks, distance signs were
put up with both miles and kilometers, but Americans were
too dumb to figure it out.

So Chris, are you maligning *all* Liberals, or just yourself? Nex

No amount of money, influence, persuasion or words can possibly paint
Liberals in a worse light than they gladly portray themselves. :-) Flamers,
start your engines. KM
--
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alohacyberian wrote:

Many countries have declined
to go along with world standards that have supposedly been set. Way back when
it was determined that automobiles should drive on the right hand side of the
road

Who was it that did the determining, and what authority did they have to
set standards outside their own area? I've heard lots of legends, none
of which seems to hold much water. Overall, if you were to tally up
which side of the road most of the world uses, my guess is that it would
work out roughly to a tie. I've seen no evidence to suggest that either
is superior. Getting 3 billion people to switch, with no apparent
significant benefit, doesn't seem very sensible.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:20:34 -0700, Hatunen
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:16 -0700, "Carlos Rodriguez"
wrote:

"Hatunen" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:39:25 +0000, iaink
wrote:

Changing all the signs at once would cost a lot of $$$, and requires a
lot of political will, not to mention the logistical issues, so on a
practical level, road signs would be a big issue. Not that there is a
hope in hell of the US adopting the metric system anyway.

I believe I-19 from 'Tucson to Mexico is the only metric
interstate in the country. All distances and "mileposts" are
metric, so that even the interchange numbers (based on the
"milepost") are the kilometers from the southern end instead of
miles. On the streets and roads that interchange with I-19 the
approach sings are metric, e.g., "I-19 500 meters."

But the speed limit signs are in miles per hour, and I would
expect this to be because the statutory speed limits are in miles
per hour.

I read in the local Tucson paper today that these very signs on the I-19 are
being exchanged today (Jan 12), replacing km with miles... Sigh.

I came up I-19 this morning from aobut Km 96 to Km 100 and didn't
see any such changes. In fact, I noticed a metric sign I hadn't
noticed before. But you could be right.

I now see in the paper yesterday that they are indeed going to
remove the metric signs from I-19. It will be done on a long-term
basis when there is working being done in a given area. meaning
there will be a mix of signs for some time.

Makes me a bit sad to see the metric signs go; another one of
those quirky things about Tucson/

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Lynn Guinni writes:
Who was it that did the determining [for which side of the road people
would drive on],

Usually national governments, including conquerors. In some cases it
was state/provincial or even local governments. (Until the 1920s in
Canada, driving was on the right in 5 provinces -- from Alberta east
to Quebec -- and on the left in the other 4.)

and what authority did they have to set standards outside their own area?

None, unless conquest counts. Napoleon and Hitler were both responsible
for converting parts of Europe from left- to right-hand driving.

(Of course, in Napoleon's day you would probably only have moved to the
right when someone was actually coming the other way, rather than always
staying on one side of the road as now.)

I've heard lots of legends, none of which seems to hold much water.

Laws were generally based on local customs, which tended to arise for
different reasons in different places (based on things like whether
people there tended to ride on top of a horse or behind it in a cart,
always combined with the majority of people being right-handed).

See e.g.:
http://www.travel-library.com/general/driving/drive_which_side.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_the_road
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_021b.html

Overall, if you were to tally up which side of the road most of the
world uses, my guess is that it would work out roughly to a tie.

No, if you actually look at the statistics, you find that the right is
far more common by all measures. All of the Americas, all of continental
Europe, all of the former Soviet Union and China, and most of Africa
uses the right. While there are, of course, a number of populous or
otherwise important countries that drive on the left, all of them are
either island countries of have Indian Ocean coastline -- not a large
part of the world.

Driving on the left is somewhat more common for trains than for road
traffic, but that's a separate question.

I've seen no evidence to suggest that either is superior.

There really is no significant advantage to one or the other, provided
that *everything* is correspondingly reversed. For example, it would
be idiotic for a country that drives on the left to allow drivers to
turn *right* on red allowed after stopping. Nobody has actually done
that, but there are other such asymmetrical situations where countries
have used right-of-way laws that would make more sense if they drove on
the other side.

Getting 3 billion people to switch, with no apparent significant
benefit, doesn't seem very sensible.

It wouldn't be 3 billion, and there would be a significant benefit to
some people if one or the other method could be adopted worldwide
without transitional costs. But of course that's not the case.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "I asked you for a *good* reason,
| not a *terrific* one!" --Maxwell Smart (Agent 86)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Mark Brader wrote:

Lynn Guinni writes:
Who was it that did the determining [for which side of the road people
would drive on],

Usually national governments, including conquerors.

and what authority did they have to set standards outside their own area?

None, unless conquest counts. Napoleon and Hitler were both responsible
for converting parts of Europe from left- to right-hand driving.

My point exactly. I was answering the poster who was saying that "it
was determined" that the world standard would be on the right, or words
to that effect, and that the British Empire countries chose to ignore
it. No one determined any such thing.

Overall, if you were to tally up which side of the road most of the
world uses, my guess is that it would work out roughly to a tie.

No, if you actually look at the statistics, you find that the right is
far more common by all measures.

The measure I had in mind was the number of people. Seemed reasonable
in the context. While I haven't done the math, it seems to me that
adding up all those people around the Indian Ocean, plus Japan, some
African countries, etc, would certainly put you in the general ballpark
of half the world's population.

Getting 3 billion people to switch, with no apparent significant
benefit, doesn't seem very sensible.

It wouldn't be 3 billion, and there would be a significant benefit to
some people if one or the other method could be adopted worldwide
without transitional costs. But of course that's not the case.

I doubt the benefit would be all that significant. Little other than
autos would be affected, and even them not so much. Most autos are
manufactured in the country in which they are sold. Moot point in any
case. It ain't gonna happen.

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...


No, if you actually look at the statistics, you find that the right is
far more common by all measures. All of the Americas, all of continental
Europe, all of the former Soviet Union and China, and most of Africa
uses the right. While there are, of course, a number of populous or
otherwise important countries that drive on the left, all of them are
either island countries of have Indian Ocean coastline -- not a large
part of the world.


India is rather large as I recall and they drive on the left as does
Pakistan.
In Africa Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa,
Mozambique, Somaliland, Malawi, Botswana and Lesotho

In Asia Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand drive on the left

Finally as an exercise for the reader there is one US territory
where they drive on the left.

I wonder how many people know which it is ?

Driving on the left is somewhat more common for trains than for road
traffic, but that's a separate question.

I've seen no evidence to suggest that either is superior.

There really is no significant advantage to one or the other, provided
that *everything* is correspondingly reversed. For example, it would
be idiotic for a country that drives on the left to allow drivers to
turn *right* on red allowed after stopping. Nobody has actually done
that, but there are other such asymmetrical situations where countries
have used right-of-way laws that would make more sense if they drove on
the other side.


Actually I dont recall coming across the turn right on red
rule in Europe, it seems to be a US thing


Keith

Lynn Guinni and I (Mark Brader) wrote:
Overall, if you were to tally up which side of the road most of the
world uses, my guess is that it would work out roughly to a tie.

No, if you actually look at the statistics, you find that the right is
far more common by all measures.

The measure I had in mind was the number of people. Seemed reasonable
in the context. While I haven't done the math, it seems to me that
adding up all those people around the Indian Ocean, plus Japan, some
African countries, etc, would certainly put you in the general ballpark
of half the world's population.

Alternatively, you could believe that I know what I'm talking about.

All right, try it yourself. Google on "most populous countries" and the
first hit is http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004391.html, which gives
a list of 50 countries with over 20 million people each, credited to the
"U.S. Census Bureau, International Database". (I don't believe most of
these numbers are actually accurate to more than 2-3 significant digits
at best, but taking them at face value seems good enough here.) Then go
to, say, the first of the sources I posted before to see which ones drive
on the left. Combine the two lists and here's what you get. Countries
not marked Left drive on the right.

1. China 1,286,975,468
2. India 1,049,700,118 Left
3. United States 290,342,554
4. Indonesia 234,893,453 Left
5. Brazil 182,032,604
6. Pakistan 150,694,740 Left
7. Russia 144,526,278
8. Bangladesh 138,448,210 Left
9. Nigeria 133,881,703
10. Japan 127,214,499 Left
11. Mexico 104,907,991
12. Philippines 84,619,974
13. Germany 82,398,326
14. Vietnam 81,624,716
15. Egypt 74,718,797
16. Iran 68,278,826
17. Turkey 68,109,469
18. Ethiopia 66,557,553
19. Thailand 64,265,276 Left
20. France 60,180,529
21. United Kingdom 60,094,648 Left
22. Italy 57,998,353
23. D.R. Congo (ex Zaire) 56,625,039
24. South Korea 48,289,037
25. Ukraine 48,055,439
26. South Africa 42,768,678 Left
27. Burma (or Myanmar) 42,510,537
28. Colombia 41,662,073
29. Spain 40,217,413
30. Argentina 38,740,807
31. Poland 38,622,660
32. Sudan 38,114,160
33. Tanzania 35,922,454 Left
34. Algeria 32,818,500
35. Canada 32,207,113
36. Morocco 31,689,265
37. Kenya 31,639,091 Left
38. Afghanistan 28,717,213
39. Peru 28,409,897
40. Nepal 26,469,569 Left
41. Uzbekistan 25,981,647
42. Uganda 25,632,794 Left
43. Iraq 24,683,313
44. Venezuela 24,654,694
45. Saudi Arabia 24,293,844
46. Malaysia 23,092,940 Left
47. Taiwan 22,603,000
48. North Korea 22,466,481
49. Romania 22,271,839
50. Ghana 20,467,747

Which adds up to:

Right 3,521,254,859
Left 2,010,836,470

or a ratio of 7 to 4, nowhere near equality.

The page I cited gives no date for these populations, but even if they're
current estimates, that still leaves only about 800,000,000 people
unaccounted for, and of course, many of them also drive on the right.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | I still remember the first time his reality check
| bounced. -- Darlene Richards

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:30:38 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:

....

2. India 1,049,700,118 Left
4. Indonesia 234,893,453 Left
6. Pakistan 150,694,740 Left
8. Bangladesh 138,448,210 Left
10. Japan 127,214,499 Left
19. Thailand 64,265,276 Left
21. United Kingdom 60,094,648 Left
26. South Africa 42,768,678 Left
33. Tanzania 35,922,454 Left
37. Kenya 31,639,091 Left
40. Nepal 26,469,569 Left
42. Uganda 25,632,794 Left
46. Malaysia 23,092,940 Left


Which adds up to:

Right 3,521,254,859
Left 2,010,836,470

or a ratio of 7 to 4, nowhere near equality.

Yeah,, but how many actualy have CARS in those places? LOL!



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Mark Brader wrote:
All right, try it yourself. Google on "most populous countries" and the
first hit is http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004391.html, which gives
a list of 50 countries with over 20 million people each, credited to the
"U.S. Census Bureau, International Database". (I don't believe most of
these numbers are actually accurate to more than 2-3 significant digits
at best, but taking them at face value seems good enough here.) Then go
to, say, the first of the sources I posted before to see which ones drive
on the left. Combine the two lists and here's what you get. Countries
not marked Left drive on the right.

1. China 1,286,975,468
2. India 1,049,700,118 Left
3. United States 290,342,554
4. Indonesia 234,893,453 Left
5. Brazil 182,032,604
6. Pakistan 150,694,740 Left
7. Russia 144,526,278
8. Bangladesh 138,448,210 Left
9. Nigeria 133,881,703
10. Japan 127,214,499 Left

For this to make much sense we'd need data on how many people in these
countries actually drive. I'm sure the US has more drivers than China,
India, and Indonesia put together.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

"Mark Brader" schrieb

None, unless conquest counts. Napoleon and Hitler were both responsible
for converting parts of Europe from left- to right-hand driving.

Hitler might be responsible for many things, but right-hand driving?
Continental Europe switched to right-hand-driving in 1927 - Sweden
followed as late as 1967

Jochen