Cheap air travel within europe

Compared to the lenght of the journey by train the part through the Alps is
only a short one. And there are more scenic routes than the ones via Zürich
or Innsbruck from Italy. To really enjoy it you would have to stay and
travel in the Alps for this purpose rather.

None of the low-frill airlines is flying directly to Frankfurt International
Airport.

www.hlx.com and www.germanwings.com
fly both to either Cologne/Bonn or Stuttgart airports

www.ryanair.com
to Frankfurt-Hahn or Baden-Airport


For the prices with trains I've assumed you want to travel 2nd class and
your child is younger than 14.
Prices are for your whole family if not stated otherwise.

Cologne/Bonn Airport - Frankfurt Airport
1 a) until the station at the airports opens in July
Express Bus (EUR 5,- per adult) + ICE EUR 73,80
2-3 connections per hour, travel time 1,5 hours
1 b) after the opening of the new train station
not all ICE trains Frankfurt - Cologne will stop at Cologne/Bonn Airport
price: less than 73,80 as it is a short distance; travel time less than 1
hour
2 the touristic alternative through the Rhine Valley
Express Bus (EUR 5,- per adult) + IC 49,20
2-hourly :22 (2:38) at even hours and a few more
http://www.talderloreley.de/index.en.php

And 1a and 2 will you alsogo via to the main railway station in Cologne
Directly at the railway station (so 10 m edge to edge) is the most visited
building in Germany
http://www.koelner-dom.de/

Stuttgart Airport to Frankfurt Airport: EUR 70,20 (S-Bahn, ICE)
hourly trains at :08 (1:57) and :48 (1:50)

Hahn Airport to Frankfurt Airport
Shuttle Bus EUR 36,- (3 x 12,-) 1:45
http://www.bohr-omnibusse.de/Airport...nFrankfurt.htm

Baden Airport (near Baden-Baden and Karlsruhe) to Frankfurt Airport
bus to Baden-Baden 20 min; ICE EUR 53,40 (1:23)


"Joe" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
I am from the United States, and my wife, child and myself, plan to
travel to Europe in June. I have most of my trip planned, except for
the travel from Rome to Frankfurt. I have looked at the ryanair's very
appealing price structure. However, I have also read that ryanair is
not very dependable, which could be very troublesome for us. I seek
advice, should I perhaps travel by train, consuming considerable
amount of vacation time or should I consider the scenery I would miss.
Certainly, I would like to balance cost, time spent traveling while
enjoying the scenery and local culture. Could someone please give me
pros and cons. Thank you.

Joe

Martin Stock schrieb:

Compared to the lenght of the journey by train the part through the Alps is
only a short one. And there are more scenic routes than the ones via Zürich
or Innsbruck from Italy. To really enjoy it you would have to stay and
travel in the Alps for this purpose rather.

None of the low-frill airlines is flying directly to Frankfurt International
Airport.

Not quite correct. The OP might want to try Air Berlin (Rome-Ciampino to
Frankfurt Intl).

http://www.airberlin.com/site/index.php?LANG=eng

They are an "up market" low-cost airline, in fact in terms of numbers
the #2 carrier in Germany last year.

T.

www.hlx.com and www.germanwings.com
fly both to either Cologne/Bonn or Stuttgart airports

www.ryanair.com
to Frankfurt-Hahn or Baden-Airport

For the prices with trains I've assumed you want to travel 2nd class and
your child is younger than 14.
Prices are for your whole family if not stated otherwise.

Cologne/Bonn Airport - Frankfurt Airport
1 a) until the station at the airports opens in July
Express Bus (EUR 5,- per adult) + ICE EUR 73,80
2-3 connections per hour, travel time 1,5 hours
1 b) after the opening of the new train station
not all ICE trains Frankfurt - Cologne will stop at Cologne/Bonn Airport
price: less than 73,80 as it is a short distance; travel time less than 1
hour
2 the touristic alternative through the Rhine Valley
Express Bus (EUR 5,- per adult) + IC 49,20
2-hourly :22 (2:38) at even hours and a few more
http://www.talderloreley.de/index.en.php

And 1a and 2 will you alsogo via to the main railway station in Cologne
Directly at the railway station (so 10 m edge to edge) is the most visited
building in Germany
http://www.koelner-dom.de/

Stuttgart Airport to Frankfurt Airport: EUR 70,20 (S-Bahn, ICE)
hourly trains at :08 (1:57) and :48 (1:50)

Hahn Airport to Frankfurt Airport
Shuttle Bus EUR 36,- (3 x 12,-) 1:45
http://www.bohr-omnibusse.de/Airport...nFrankfurt.htm

Baden Airport (near Baden-Baden and Karlsruhe) to Frankfurt Airport
bus to Baden-Baden 20 min; ICE EUR 53,40 (1:23)

"Joe" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
I am from the United States, and my wife, child and myself, plan to
travel to Europe in June. I have most of my trip planned, except for
the travel from Rome to Frankfurt. I have looked at the ryanair's very
appealing price structure. However, I have also read that ryanair is
not very dependable, which could be very troublesome for us. I seek
advice, should I perhaps travel by train, consuming considerable
amount of vacation time or should I consider the scenery I would miss.
Certainly, I would like to balance cost, time spent traveling while
enjoying the scenery and local culture. Could someone please give me
pros and cons. Thank you.

Joe

On a side note; would you please describe what you feel are the most
scenic train routes through the Alps from Germany to Italy. I'll be
traveling South from somewhere (probably Munich) in Germany through to
Rome over the course of 3/4 days in late May. Switzerland detour is fine
with me also; even private rail to ski areas; I want to see the best of
the Alps possible from the train so daytime train itineraries please!

Tim K

"Martin Stock" wrote in message
...
Compared to the lenght of the journey by train the part through the
Alps is
only a short one. And there are more scenic routes than the ones via
Zürich
or Innsbruck from Italy. To really enjoy it you would have to stay and
travel in the Alps for this purpose rather.

None of the low-frill airlines is flying directly to Frankfurt
International
Airport.

"Thomas Peel" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...


Martin Stock schrieb:

Compared to the lenght of the journey by train the part through the Alps
is
only a short one. And there are more scenic routes than the ones via
Zürich
or Innsbruck from Italy. To really enjoy it you would have to stay and
travel in the Alps for this purpose rather.

None of the low-frill airlines is flying directly to Frankfurt
International
Airport.

Not quite correct. The OP might want to try Air Berlin (Rome-Ciampino to
Frankfurt Intl).

via Nuremberg. I knew. But according to the flight table there are only
flights on this route till end of March. Even if this connection is not
marked in the overview as "winter only".
At least it seems to be impossible to book a flight in June on this route
yet.

They are an "up market" low-cost airline, in fact in terms of numbers
the #2 carrier in Germany last year.

100% agreed

Air Berlin is also among the 14 airlines worldwide wich never had an fatal
accident (loss of life from passengers).

"Tim Kroesen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
k.net...
On a side note; would you please describe what you feel are the most
scenic train routes through the Alps from Germany to Italy. I'll be
traveling South from somewhere (probably Munich) in Germany through to
Rome over the course of 3/4 days in late May. Switzerland detour is fine
with me also; even private rail to ski areas; I want to see the best of
the Alps possible from the train so daytime train itineraries please!

Tim K

Swiss Railways SBB scenic routes
http://www.rail.ch/pv/sts-pano_e.htm

The fastest route from Munich to Italy is via Innsbruck (Austria) and the
Brenner pass to Bozen/Bolzano.
The fastest route from Munich through Switzerland would be
Munich - Lindau - Bregenz (east side of Lake Constance) - Zürich (northern
end of the yellow line).
change train in Zürich
From Zürich rather straight on the east side of Lake Lucerne (this route is
not on this map), from there following the brown line to Lugano.

Two suggestions (first part is the same):

Munich to Lindau
http://www.lindau-tourismus.de/en/
Lindau - Friedrichshafen
(interesting http://www.zeppelin-museum.de in the harbour railway station)
Ferry Friedrichshafen-Romanshorn
Pre-Alpine Express Romanshorn (the northern end of the red line at Lake
Constance) to Lucerne (the southern end at lake Lucern)

a) faster
William Tell Express Lucerne to Lugano
First part is on a paddle steamer across Lake Lucerne

b) even more scenic
Brünig Bahn (yellow) from Lucerne to Interlaken Ost (the Brünig line is a
narrow gauge cogwheel railway)
From Interlaken you can explore the Jungfrau region. If you have a rail pass
you can travel into the side valleys (Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen) for
free, to go to the top (Jungfraujoch) is expensive.
Follow the yellow line till Thun, from there on the Lötschberg and
Centovalli lines (dark green) to Locarno

On some of these lines you have special panoramic trains (the ones with the
special name).
More details if you fellow the links on the SBB site.
But if it suits better from the timetable any other normal train will do as
well.

If you have a rail pass (e.g. an Eurail pass) it covers the trains and also
the paddle steamers on the mountain lakes in Switzerland.
The ferry from Friedrichshafen to Romanshorn is EUR 6,- (with a rail pass
EUR 3,-).

You can check train connections for all routes with the DB timetable
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/english.html
or you can use the one on the SBB site.

Excellent! A huge THANK YOU!

Are you also implying that in might be advantageous to get a short term
(like 5 days in 30) Rail-Pass for Two adjacent countries (Germany and
Switzerland) for this trip leg; then cheaper point to point tickets in
Netherlands to Germany in the start, then into Italy and South after...

Tim K

"Martin Stock" wrote in message
...

"Tim Kroesen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
k.net...
On a side note; would you please describe what you feel are the most
scenic train routes through the Alps from Germany to Italy. I'll be
traveling South from somewhere (probably Munich) in Germany through
to
Rome over the course of 3/4 days in late May. Switzerland detour is
fine
with me also; even private rail to ski areas; I want to see the best
of
the Alps possible from the train so daytime train itineraries
please!

Tim K

Swiss Railways SBB scenic routes
http://www.rail.ch/pv/sts-pano_e.htm

The fastest route from Munich to Italy is via Innsbruck (Austria) and
the
Brenner pass to Bozen/Bolzano.
The fastest route from Munich through Switzerland would be
Munich - Lindau - Bregenz (east side of Lake Constance) - Zürich
(northern
end of the yellow line).
change train in Zürich
From Zürich rather straight on the east side of Lake Lucerne (this
route is
not on this map), from there following the brown line to Lugano.

Two suggestions (first part is the same):

Munich to Lindau
http://www.lindau-tourismus.de/en/
Lindau - Friedrichshafen
(interesting http://www.zeppelin-museum.de in the harbour railway
station)
Ferry Friedrichshafen-Romanshorn
Pre-Alpine Express Romanshorn (the northern end of the red line at
Lake
Constance) to Lucerne (the southern end at lake Lucern)

a) faster
William Tell Express Lucerne to Lugano
First part is on a paddle steamer across Lake Lucerne

b) even more scenic
Brünig Bahn (yellow) from Lucerne to Interlaken Ost (the Brünig line
is a
narrow gauge cogwheel railway)
From Interlaken you can explore the Jungfrau region. If you have a
rail pass
you can travel into the side valleys (Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen)
for
free, to go to the top (Jungfraujoch) is expensive.
Follow the yellow line till Thun, from there on the Lötschberg and
Centovalli lines (dark green) to Locarno

On some of these lines you have special panoramic trains (the ones
with the
special name).
More details if you fellow the links on the SBB site.
But if it suits better from the timetable any other normal train will
do as
well.

If you have a rail pass (e.g. an Eurail pass) it covers the trains and
also
the paddle steamers on the mountain lakes in Switzerland.
The ferry from Friedrichshafen to Romanshorn is EUR 6,- (with a rail
pass
EUR 3,-).

You can check train connections for all routes with the DB timetable
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/english.html
or you can use the one on the SBB site.

Martin Stock wrote:
Air Berlin is also among the 14 airlines worldwide wich never had an fatal
accident (loss of life from passengers).

I think there are an awful lot more than 14:

http://www.airsafe.com/events/regions/eu_nofat.htm

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

Thank you.

Frank Hucklenbroich wrote in message .. .
On 11 Feb 2004 03:29:52 -0800, Joe wrote:

I am from the United States, and my wife, child and myself, plan to
.......
cut
........
http://www23.germanwings.com/index.en.shtml

Alternatively you can check Hapag Lloyd Express:
http://www.hlx.com/en/index.html
They also go from Rome to Cologne.

Regards,

Frank

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:32:19 +0000, bigbrian
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:35:04 +0100, B wrote:

[snip other stuff about Ryanair]

Don't expect to be able to change anything about your ticket once
you've bought it. You won't be allowed to switch to a different flight
or modify the name of one of the passengers.

Actually, you can do both. There's a fee (£10/€15 to change flights or
£15/€25 to change the name. In both cases you also have to pay any
difference between what you paid for your ticket at the time you
bought it, and the current price of the flight you want to change to,
(even if its just a change of name for the same flight)

In general this makes changing anything almost as expensive as buying
a new ticket. And Ryanair ticket prices tend to get very expensive
near the day of departure.

If I buy a 15 GBP ticket from Ryanair and have to change a flight near
the day of departure, when the price has gone to 150 GBP, then the
change will cost me (150 - 15) + 10/15, OR 145/150 GBP.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

In message , Martin Stock
writes

"Tim Kroesen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
nk.net...
On a side note; would you please describe what you feel are the most
scenic train routes through the Alps from Germany to Italy. I'll be
traveling South from somewhere (probably Munich) in Germany through to
Rome over the course of 3/4 days in late May. Switzerland detour is fine
with me also; even private rail to ski areas; I want to see the best of
the Alps possible from the train so daytime train itineraries please!

Tim K

Swiss Railways SBB scenic routes
http://www.rail.ch/pv/sts-pano_e.htm

The fastest route from Munich to Italy is via Innsbruck (Austria) and the
Brenner pass to Bozen/Bolzano.
The fastest route from Munich through Switzerland would be
Munich - Lindau - Bregenz (east side of Lake Constance) - Zürich (northern
end of the yellow line).
change train in Zürich
From Zürich rather straight on the east side of Lake Lucerne (this route is
not on this map), from there following the brown line to Lugano.

Alternatively, for a slower, but I think even more spectacular route,
follow the above route as far as Bregenz (or St Margarethen on the Swiss
side of the border if the train stops there), then travel to Sargans
(local train from St Margarethen, or via Feldkirch if travelling on the
Austrian side -- the Feldkirch - Sargans train passes through
Liechtenstein but doesn't stop there, if you want to cross off another
country!). From Sargans the SBB runs intercity trains to Chur where the
narrow-gauge Rhätische Bahn connects -- you may be able to catch a
direct train to Tirano in Italy (Bernina Express), or have to take a St
Moritz train and change in Samedan and Pontresina. From Tirano you can
get a mainline train to Milano,


--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/