If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
round-trip from NYC to DC
sechumlib wrote:
On 2006-06-15 22:35:45 -0400, jdoe said: On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:11:26 GMT, sechumlib wrote: On 2006-06-15 15:04:03 -0400, jdoe said: Just because some fool posts idiocy on the internet, that doesn't make it fact and you are even a bigger fool for buying into that guy's BS. Seems like maybe you have an axe to grind, or something? you keep commenting on me, are you incapable of discussing the subject? if so feel free not to respond I like ;-) the fact that you use a definition of "subsidy" that is clearly different from the definition(s) used by others in this thread, No one disputes that the airlines are heavily subsidized. This is S.O.P. not just in the U.S., but for carriers throughout the world. The Amtrak subsidy is an annual direct cash infusion from the federal government, while the airline subsidies are more subtle, and come from various sources, some federal, some state, and some local. I.e., many airports will waive landing fees for a certain number of years in order to attract new routes and new airlines to the airport. Local governments subsidize the construction of terminals, runways, and other infrastructure. Aircraft design and manufacturer is indirectly subsidized via military contracts to the same aerospace companies. Airlines receive payments from the federal government to make their fleets available to the government in an emergency, though AFAIK, the government has never used the fleets. The airlines have non-monetary subsidies as well, such as the tariffs regarding transportation of passengers within the U.S. by foreign carriers. It's not to say that any of these subsidies are bad or good, but to claim that the airlines are not subsidized is incorrect. They receive far more money than Amtrak in subsidies. |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
round-trip from NYC to DC
On 2006-06-16 18:11:26 -0400, SMS said:
No one disputes that the airlines are heavily subsidized. That is simply NOT SO. "jdoe" disputes it abusively. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
round-trip from NYC to DC
jdoe wrote:
why should people who never step foot on a train subsidize those who use trains? let the train users pay their own way just like plane users do and highway users do. trains are the only, (other than mass transit) method of travel that requires massive subsidies. This is a common misunderstanding. All transportation is given a major subsidy, some direct and some indirect. This is, as far as I can tell, true in all countries. The difference in the US is that much of the subsidies for air and highway are indirect while most for mass transit and rail is direct. In fact, the Amtrak budget from Congress includes millions for expenses that are not really Amtrak. When Congress set Amtrak up they gave it some major obligations that the private railroads had. This means Amtrak has to pay for the clean up of waste sites that were created by the private railroads and "given" to Amtrak so the private companies didn't have to pay for clean up. Amtrak was also given major pension responsibilities so they have to pay for the retirement of many earlier workers who never worked for Amtrak. I have always paid more in taxes for other peoples' use of roads, highways, cars, gas, airports, and airlines than I paid directly for my use. On the other hand, I probably have gotten most or all of the value of my tax money that went to mass transit and Amtrak back in my use. Bob valen (at) mailcart (dot) us |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
round-trip from NYC to DC
jdoe wrote:
let the train users pay their own way just like plane users do and highway users do. Hah! Like the gov't. doesn't exist to heavily subsidize building of highways, guarantee loans for car makers, proved grants for terminals and runways, operate air traffic control and aircraft security, and at the same time, hasnn't hobbled Amtrak with a railroad priority lower than freight, building and operating its own terminals, antiquated equipment, and running unprofitable routes for political support of its meager subsidies. The proble isn't that train users don't pay their own way, its that the passenger rail infrastructure has never been serviced by the gov't. to same degree of the other transportation modes. =R= |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
round-trip from NYC to DC
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:34:35 -0400, jdoe wrote:
The proble isn't that train users don't pay their own way, its that the passenger rail infrastructure has never been serviced by the gov't. to same degree of the other transportation modes. and the reason trains don't get federal monies is because train users Not even close. If gasoline were taxed enough to cover the true cost of the highways instead of being subsidized, gas would be over $6/gallon. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
round-trip from NYC to DC
On 2006-06-26 08:28:47 -0400, jdoe said:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 04:24:12 GMT, AZ Nomad wrote: On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:34:35 -0400, jdoe wrote: The proble isn't that train users don't pay their own way, its that the passenger rail infrastructure has never been serviced by the gov't. to same degree of the other transportation modes. and the reason trains don't get federal monies is because train users Not even close. If gasoline were taxed enough to cover the true cost of the highways instead of being subsidized, gas would be over $6/gallon. data? How about YOU provide data? |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
round-trip from NYC to DC
On 2006-06-26 12:47:37 -0400, jdoe said:
in other words you just spout numbers and have no data to back them up. If you want to check on my claims try using google Well, since you're the one who originally cast minuscule doubt on everything said here about subsidization of air & road travel, and did it in the most disrespectful and abusive manner possible, I think it's up to you to support your position and up to the rest of us to see reality until we are shown it's not there. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
round trip from Los Angeles to China | Dan Stromberg | Asia | 4 | February 7th, 2006 06:18 PM |
Southwest Rapid Reward Round Trip Ticket | Angela | Travel Marketplace | 0 | November 30th, 2005 03:41 AM |
Are ONE-WAY tickets more expensive than ROUND TRIP? | Bradwell Jackson | Europe | 17 | June 3rd, 2004 05:52 PM |
Copper Canyon Mexico Train Trip - March 2004 | Donald Hazle | Latin America | 3 | March 19th, 2004 03:19 AM |
Mountaineering Trip to Hkaka-bo-ra-zi | Asia | 0 | October 29th, 2003 09:23 AM |