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39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.



 
 
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  #101  
Old July 9th, 2007, 10:39 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
sechumlib
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Posts: 987
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

On 2007-07-09 16:33:58 -0400, George Graves said:

You're talking about the Libby pardon, I take it? That has nothing to do with
the court or the law practiced in that court. They did their job; which was
to try, and if found guilty, sentence Libby. The fact that Bush used his
executive power to set that sentence aside with a pardon, is his privilege as
president and has nothing whatsoever to with the court and its decision and
sentence. You are really having a problem with these legal concepts, aren't
you?


You know, you're being both hyperidiotic and inaccurate.

There was no "pardon" (yet); there was a "commutation". Do you know the
difference?

And that has a lot to do with your inflexible position. Apparently the
Prez thinks you're wrong about what is appropriate for people who lie
under oath. If that's what he thinks, who are you and who am I to apply
that principle as inflexible as you have to someone else, namely
Clinton?

Try being realistic for a while, anyway.

  #102  
Old July 9th, 2007, 10:41 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
sechumlib
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Posts: 987
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

On 2007-07-09 16:47:13 -0400, George Graves said:

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:15:28 -0700, sechumlib wrote
(in article ):

On 2007-07-09 14:10:43 -0400, George Graves said:

Given most of this thread's respondents grasp of US law (as witnessed by
their inability to understand simple perjury laws) is woefully inadequate,
I'd say very few.


We're not all the kind of Pharisee you are.


No, you're not. You don't know the law, and you don't seem to want to learn
it and you don't seem understand the importance of being compelled to tell
the truth in a court of law. Whether it's stubbornness that makes you this
way, or willful ignorance, or just stupidity is not for me to comment upon,
and I won't.


I've been a lawyer for 42 years. I just have a different political view
than you do.

  #103  
Old July 9th, 2007, 10:44 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx
Ric Seyler
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Posts: 38
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.



Thumper wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:46:42 -0700, Sam Spade
wrote:



If the House pushed impeachment then you will see civil war in the
US. Too many Bush supporters are fed up with the cry babies of the
left. All the left understands is violence, look at the way that they
are scared to death of the Muslims....



No way, Jose. Americans only bitch and moan. If they were inclined to
Civil War it would be happening now over illegal immigration and how the
left (and Bush) tell us we are racists because we can no longer stand
this invasion by Mexico.




Many of the people bitching about illegal immigrants ARE racist. They
use this as a cover.
Thumper


That is a very valid point!

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  #104  
Old July 9th, 2007, 10:58 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Ric Seyler
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Posts: 38
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.



sechumlib wrote:

On 2007-07-08 14:18:17 -0400, Omega said:

The left constantly has to demonize someone or something.



Which your posting also does unbelievably well.


LOLOLOLOL No kidding....

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  #105  
Old July 9th, 2007, 11:04 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Ric Seyler
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Posts: 38
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.



George Graves wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:35:46 -0700, ZnU wrote
(in article ):



In article ,
George Graves wrote:



On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:03:32 -0700, Sparrow wrote
(in article om):



Read all about it, he http://Muvy.org



OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law.


Wikipedia has a nice list of potential charges:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...Bush#Rationale
s_for_impeachment

The ones that potentially involve explicit violations of US law:

1) Warrantless surveillance (violates FISA).
2) Violations of the UN Charter (remember, treaties are US law).
3) Violations of the Geneva Convention (ditto).
4) Commuting Libby's sentence (if done to prevent Libby from turning
state's evidence, it represents obstruction of justice).
5) Politicization of the United States attorney offices, in a scheme
possibly involving voter suppression and a subsequent coverup.
6) Signing statements (the executive is not allowed to rewrite laws).

As of this week, you'll almost certainly be able to add to that
willfully ignoring subpoenas lawfully issued by the US Congress.

If the political will was there to impeach, any of the above could serve
as a constitutionally valid justification. Remember, impeachment doesn't
function according to a "reasonable doubt" standard; it functions
according to whatever standard Congress wants.

[snip]





Then why aren't the Democrats instituting impeachment proceedings? Could it
be that they feel that having Chaney as Pres would be out of the frying pan
and into the fire?



You gotta consider, even after America kicked the NeoCONS to the curb
this last election,
the Dems don't have the backbone to really do anything. They live in
constant fear of the Rove
Smear Machine. Constantly walking on eggshells and looking over their
shoulders.
Even real Republicans are guilty of this fear also..

I want someone to stand up and say when something is ignorant or
dangerous for us,
not be cowering from Rove and his minions. Republican OR Democrat.
Don't see that happening anytime soon though........ sadly.

--
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  #106  
Old July 9th, 2007, 11:06 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Ric Seyler
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Posts: 38
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.



George Graves wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:53:04 -0700, sechumlib wrote
(in article ):



On 2007-07-08 13:53:32 -0400, George Graves said:



On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 06:49:25 -0700, sechumlib wrote
(in article ):



On 2007-07-07 22:34:26 -0400, George Graves said:



OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law.


Anyone who consider's Clinton's impeachment to have been based on
"legitimate charges" is living out in the never-never land of the far
right.



Anyone who condones perjury in a court of law, by anyone, high or low, has
no
right to live under a Democratic Republic. That means you, buddy.


Is that a threat, or just the empty bluster it looks like?


I'm no Republican, but had I been the Judge, Clinton would
have done time.

Just curious, what about Scooter?






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Ric Seyler
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remove -SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
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- H.J. Simpson


  #107  
Old July 9th, 2007, 11:10 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Ric Seyler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.



George Graves wrote:

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:12:02 -0700, sechumlib wrote
(in article ):



On 2007-07-09 13:17:53 -0400, George Graves said:



On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:06:55 -0700, sechumlib wrote
(in article ):



On 2007-07-09 12:45:18 -0400, George Graves said:



Lying under oath to grand jury is NOT a trivial matter.


Not when applied to Clinton, according to your non-standards. What
about when applied to Lewis Libby?



I repeat, lying under oath is not a trivial matter. Perjury is punishable by
a prison term. I don't care if its Bill Clinton, Lewis Libby, or G.W. Bush.
If someone lies under oath on a witness stand, he or she should be subject
to
the full weight of the law - irrespective of the perjurer's position or
extenuating circumstances. One either tells the truth while under oath or
one
takes the 5th, where appropriate. There is no third road to take. ANY first
year law student can tell you that. Were that not the case, our system of
jurisprudence would be worthless.


Apparently the Honorable President of the United States disagrees with you.




You're talking about the Libby pardon, I take it? That has nothing to do with
the court or the law practiced in that court. They did their job; which was
to try, and if found guilty, sentence Libby. The fact that Bush used his
executive power to set that sentence aside with a pardon, is his privilege as
president and has nothing whatsoever to with the court and its decision and
sentence. You are really having a problem with these legal concepts, aren't
you?


PFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT That was Hannity quality hypocritical justification
spin right there, man!
Com'on man, geeze! LOLOLOLOLOL

--
Ric Seyler
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remove -SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
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  #108  
Old July 9th, 2007, 11:33 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Matthew L. Martin
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Posts: 15
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

Ric Seyler wrote:


George Graves wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:53:04 -0700, sechumlib wrote
(in article ):



On 2007-07-08 13:53:32 -0400, George Graves
said:


On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 06:49:25 -0700, sechumlib wrote
(in article ):


On 2007-07-07 22:34:26 -0400, George Graves
said:


OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law.

Anyone who consider's Clinton's impeachment to have been based on
"legitimate charges" is living out in the never-never land of the far
right.


Anyone who condones perjury in a court of law, by anyone, high or
low, has no
right to live under a Democratic Republic. That means you, buddy.

Is that a threat, or just the empty bluster it looks like?

I'm no Republican, but had I been the Judge, Clinton would have done
time.

Just curious, what about Scooter?


I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for a reply.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
  #109  
Old July 9th, 2007, 11:39 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Matthew L. Martin
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Posts: 15
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

George Graves wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 04:58:33 -0700, Matthew L. Martin wrote
(in article ):

sechumlib wrote:
On 2007-07-08 18:54:04 -0400, George Graves said:

Had I been the judge, as I've said before, the man would have done time -
starting the minute his presidency was up.
There you go again! Have you NO decency, sir? More particularly, have
you NO concept of the difference between an impeachment trial in
Congress and a criminal trial in court?

He has also never heard of the constitutional protection from double
jeopardy. That doesn't surprise me.

Matthew



Would you like to explain how Clinton's perjury in any way ivolved double
jeopardy? This I gotta hear!


Having been tried, convicted and sentenced, Bill Clinton (or anyone
else) can not be tried for the same offense again.

That was simple, not unlike yourself.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
  #110  
Old July 10th, 2007, 01:04 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
sechumlib
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 987
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

On 2007-07-09 18:04:16 -0400, Ric Seyler said:

I want someone to stand up and say when something is ignorant or
dangerous for us,
not be cowering from Rove and his minions. Republican OR Democrat.
Don't see that happening anytime soon though........ sadly.


We're in another McCarthy era. Everyone farther left than Voinovich is
afraid to speak the truth, because it's too unpleasant.

 




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