An unusual question

(PJ O'Donovan) wrote in message . com...
(Josh Rosenbluth) wrote in message . com...
(PJ O'Donovan) wrote in message . com...
Josh Rosenbluth wrote in message ...
PJ O'Donovan wrote:
(Josh Rosenbluth) wrote in message . com...

(PJ O'Donovan) wrote in message

How about answering the question, "are you saying that the debt
build-up
under Reagan would have been larger or smaller (than it actually was)
without the tax cut?"

You've seen the data. Now, how about an answer?

Nobody knows what the debt build up "would have been" if the tax rate
had not been decreased but figures can lie and liars can figure.

The only thing we know is revenues increased.

But they did not result in "an explosion in governmnent revenues to a
magnitude
unparalleled in US economic history." Moreover, knowing that revenue
increased doesn't say one thing about the debt. We must estimate what
revenue would have been without the tax cut. Of course nobody knows
what would have happened for certain, but we could jointly develop a
methodology for that calculation if you'd like.

Josh Rosenbluth

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:55:52 -0700, Hatunen wrote:

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 00:21:49 +1000, Deep Freud Moors
wrote:

Told wife and kids that If I croak from some respiratory ailment to
sue the government since I was a victim of their benevolence. Lots of
luck, right?

It's better just to whine about it on usenet instead.

You made your own decision to smoke, don't blame the government.

Unfortunately, that's terribly simplistic for those of us who
started smoking back in the 1950s and earlier, when smoking was
actually being touted as medically benevolent and the true
medical statistics weren't known.

As the tobacco companies well knew, but pointedly hid, one can
make one's own decision to start smoking, but once addicted the
decision to stop is considerably more difficult. But it can be
done.

No ****, and companies still do much the same nowadays. If you fall
for fashionable substance abuse (that includes things like fat and
sugar), that's your own stupid fault. Even the short term effects of
smoking should make it completely obvious it is not 'medically
benevolent'. Believe the bull**** at your own peril.
---
DFM

So we have Yanks and make pretend Yanks now do we.
When are you southerners going to grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!
The War is over and you lost hands down...the Northerners won.
Freda

--
Please reply to the list as my email address is a fake
"PJ O'Donovan" wrote in message
om...
"Tony Day" wrote in message
...
Here's a yuletide message for all you yanks who think you own the world.
This ng is about travelling in Europe, not a place for you to massage
your
inflated egos and crap on about US politics etc which is of zero
interest to
anyone else. . Here's a quiz: the second word is OFF. Guess the first?


I,m from SW Georgia. Anaboda callin' me Yank gottit awl wrooong.

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:37:03 +0100, Magda wrote:

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:35:53 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Jesper Lauridsen
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... A further problem is that introducing draconian taxes usually leads to
... *reduced* revenue, as the victims change their behaviour to avoid it.
... A good example is when the former Danish government changed the tax
... rules making ownership of expensive cars[1] much more expensive. The
... result was that the sale of these cars came to a complete halt, resulting
... in a significant revenue loss on car taxes.

If only the smokers would do the same...

The smokers have changer their behaviour. Smuggling cigarettes is big business
in many places.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 05:59:43 +0100, Magda
wrote:

On 23 Dec 2003 20:14:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Emilia
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

...
... There is a slight price difference from a pack of siggies & a Mercedes C-
... Class... even if you smoked 2 packs a day and each pack was E10 each...
... or even if you smoked 3 packs a day and each pack cost E10 each.

What if all smokers decided to stop smoking overnight ? (let me dream, will you ?)

I bet many Mercedes could be bought with that money...

I'm not so sure all those ex-smokers would be willing to
time-share a Mercedes.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:38:34 +0100, Magda
wrote:

On 30 Dec 2003 23:12:25 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Emilia
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... I'm not so sure all those ex-smokers would be willing to
... time-share a Mercedes.
...
... And certainly not a cheap C-Class...

Why do you reason in individual terms ?
I was imagining the impact in the national economy, not at individual level !

Oh. Well, that's kind of, um, all-encomapssing. A lot of heavy
lorries could also probably be bought.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 6/12/03 3:15, in article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" "evgmsop -no wrote:



Reid wrote:

Following up to Dave Smith

The waitress went running out and screamed and cursed at him for
not leaving a tip. I doubt that he ever went back. My mother won't go back
there again either.

so isn't a US tip conditional on good service?

Only in theory! Many restaurants lure wait-staff with promises about
the size tips they may expect in that particular establishment. (Of
course, if the food or service is REALLY bad, and I've already decided
not to pay a return visit, I don't leave ANY tip, "customary" or not!)


This is a rare reaction, most people would decide just not return.

But we have done the same thing, in the US. One has no choice
in Europe since the tip is included in the total bill, along
with the tax. One comes to look at the meal charge as just that,
it is what you pay and nothing more needs to be coughed up with.

Visiting Europeans to the US are usually put off a bit by the fact
that the total bill of a meal is: the meal + the tip + the tax.
The US credit card receipts have a place for a tip whereas this
is not generally true in Europe. Since the tax is already added
the % to use for the tip is confusing, and one has to think about how much
to add on.

I am usually generous in the US with coffee shop waitresses, especially
after reading "Nickle and Dimed" by by Barbara Ehrenreich. She is a sort
of sociologist but took low paying jobs (waitress, cleaning service and
K-Mart) to see if she could make it on the income these jobs provided
(usually in the $6/hour region). Her conclusion was "no".

Waiters and waitresses are not covered by the $5.15 minimum sage low
but something like $2.15 unless their tips don`t bring them
over $5.15. So a lot of waitresses have low incomes. So I don`t hesitate
round up, and if the bill is $10 for breakfast, I will leave $2.

In Paris, at places we to go often I leave something extra, not much
but enough so that the staff is cheerful when we enter and leave.

Earl



Earl

Earl Evleth wrote:

But we have done the same thing, in the US. One has no choice
in Europe since the tip is included in the total bill, along
with the tax.

There are still some restaurants that don't charge service though.

One comes to look at the meal charge as just that,
it is what you pay and nothing more needs to be coughed up with.

One irritating thing however is that if you pay by credit card, the slip
invariably leaves the tip/gratuity portion for you to total. This has
happened in France too. In one instance in Paris, I asked if service was
included. The waiter said, yes, but it didn't include the "pourboire."
Now, given the conversation was in French, I might have lost something-
but I didn't really see the difference between a tip and service, unless
the waiter was expecting extra- and he didn't deserve it- so I didn't
give any extra. He was ****ed off.

Visiting Europeans to the US are usually put off a bit by the fact
that the total bill of a meal is: the meal + the tip + the tax.
The US credit card receipts have a place for a tip whereas this
is not generally true in Europe.

I don't know about that. Most of the ones I've signed in Europe, even in
hotels, have a space for a gratuity- in the UK I haven't seen one that
_didn't_ have the space.

In Paris, at places we to go often I leave something extra, not much
but enough so that the staff is cheerful when we enter and leave.

I don't know who said it exactly, but a lot of people in the n.g. have
claimed that Europeans are not accustomed to tipping, and don't like
doing so- yet what you write above seems to refute that somewhat.

What about a restaurant you visited for the first time- if you were
pleased with it?

David

--
David Horne- (website under reconstruction)
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Following up to Earl Evleth

But we have done the same thing, in the US. One has no choice
in Europe since the tip is included in the total bill, along
with the tax. One comes to look at the meal charge as just that,
it is what you pay and nothing more needs to be coughed up with.

*If* it is included in the bill, a minority of cases, its marked
"discretionary" IIRC.

Visiting Europeans to the US are usually put off a bit by the fact
that the total bill of a meal is: the meal + the tip + the tax.
The US credit card receipts have a place for a tip whereas this
is not generally true in Europe. Since the tax is already added
the % to use for the tip is confusing, and one has to think about how much
to add on.

IIRC credit card slips all have a space for a tip, certainly the
old style "swipe" ones all did, I don't look for it on the modern
ones as I always leave cash.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale picture gallery
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/waspics.htm"
(see website for email)