Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.

John Kulp wrote:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:09:48 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:


Which is exactly why we exclude it here, keeping our taxes much lower
than yours by constantly pointing out how much of the total price it
is.

Well, your *product* (i.e. sales, VAT, whatever) taxes are not that
much lower. You are probably thinking about income tax, social
securrity, etc..

Excuse me? Our sales taxes range from zero to around 8%. In Sweden,
they are something like 25%. According to a search I did, the general
VAT in The Netherlands is 19%. Just how is that not much different
from ours?

I'm confused! When you're talking about "ours" are you talking about
the US or Canada? *I* am obviously talking about the US and specifically
about California (and a little about Nevada).

I just took the stack of receipts we have. The *very first*, a toy
car, is already 8.5%, i.e. already *above* the maximum you mention. The
*second* one, a meal, is already 12.3%! The *third*, a motel bill, is
12%. Doesn't really stimulate me to look any further, does it? And I
know for sure that in San Francisco we paid 14% on the motel bill. What
I remember was mostly around 12%, hence my comment ("not that much
lower").

So either there's some confusion somewhere, or that "constantly
pointing out how much of the total price it [the tax] is", isn't really
working, is it?

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:50:32 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[Disclaimer: I can't believe I'm actually reading/writing this stuff! :-)]

Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
John Kulp wrote:

The Dutch should talk. I have never seen so many different types of
toilets as I have in The Netherlands. You think you're turning on the
light and the toilet flushes.

Their toilets are strange. When you take a crap, the turds sit on a sort
of shelf, so you can contemplate it for a couple of minutes before
flushing. (BTW, Flushing is in Holland too)

Your description doesn't compute. With 'shelf' do you mean a moving,
probably metal, plate in the 'output pipe' (don't know the right term
for the latter? Or do you mean the bottom of a US-style toilet, but
without the few gallons of water, i.e. the 'shelf' is not a seperate
component, but just the bottom of the ceramic toilet?

I found them to be common in parts of Germany and parts of
the Nederlands near the German border.

This guy describes it in detail:
http://www.asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm

I had the same aversion to that design as he did. I presume
they were designed to allow some anally-obsessed people to
check stools for health purposes on a daily basis.

If the former, then those kind of toilets are *not* common in The
Netherlands, i.e. there might be some in some places, but they would be
an exception.

As to strange, *we* find having them float around in a few gallons of
water both strange and disgusting!

The American system of the bernoulli suction effect was
equally strange to us, with their high waterline and an
unfortunate tendency to block easily. Again, someone else
has described it better than I could:
http://www.alldownunder.com/oz-k/rea...an-toilets.htm

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep, Perchance...

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:03:37 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

pltrgyst wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:48:49 GMT, "Sharx35" wrote:

Europe where the common
attitude is that "WE are the centre of the cultural universe
and the rest of the world are wannabes or boors". :Hell will freeze over
before I travel to the continent of decay, Europe.

Well, I'm pretty sure that at least 99% of us here in the US would rather have
Frank visit than you.

I'm not quite sure if that was a compliment or not! Afterall, all is
relative, isn't it? :-) I.e. something like "I would rather have a
broken leg than a missing eye!". :-)

But you've got a sense of humor, and he's a geographic bigot. So, yes, I'd
rather have the broken leg. 8

And my mother is Welsh, and my father's parents were German and Danish. Plus my
wife and I go to Europe on business several times a year (Netherlands, Austria,
France). We also spend a month or so driving around Europe every winter, and
love it. We may even retire to France, at least half-time, in a couple of years.

Come to think of it, it's good to know that guppy35 isn't likely to ever visit
Europe while we're there. Now if he'll just stay north of the border over here
until he at least reaches puberty...

-- Larry

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:10:37 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

John Kulp wrote:

Excuse me? Our sales taxes range from zero to around 8%....

I just took the stack of receipts we have. The *very first*, a toy
car, is already 8.5%, i.e. already *above* the maximum you mention.

The US generally has state sales taxes. The California state sales tax is 7.25%.

On top of this, you may have smaller district, county, or city sales taxes
(generally less than 1%). The total of all sales taxes may indeed range as high
as 8.5%.

The *second* one, a meal, is already 12.3%!

Many cities have special restaurant taxes in addition to the general sales tax.

The *third*, a motel bill, is 12%.

Most cities have special occupancy taxes for hotels in addition to the general
sales tax.

-- Larry

[Disclaimer: Same one.]

Alan S wrote:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:50:32 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[Disclaimer: I can't believe I'm actually reading/writing this stuff! :-)]

Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
John Kulp wrote:

The Dutch should talk. I have never seen so many different types of
toilets as I have in The Netherlands. You think you're turning on the
light and the toilet flushes.

Their toilets are strange. When you take a crap, the turds sit on a sort
of shelf, so you can contemplate it for a couple of minutes before
flushing. (BTW, Flushing is in Holland too)

Your description doesn't compute. With 'shelf' do you mean a moving,
probably metal, plate in the 'output pipe' (don't know the right term
for the latter? Or do you mean the bottom of a US-style toilet, but
without the few gallons of water, i.e. the 'shelf' is not a seperate
component, but just the bottom of the ceramic toilet?

I found them to be common in parts of Germany and parts of
the Nederlands near the German border.

This guy describes it in detail:
http://www.asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm

Thanks Alan, I knew that if I needed **** information, you'd come to
the rescue! :-)

Having seen that description, Mike is right, those "German" toilets
*are* common in The Netherlands.

However I don't understand what the big deal is! The picture of the
"German toilet" is slightly, but essentially, wrong. What Mike calls "a
sort of a shelf" is somewhat *hollow*, as *is* shown in the picture. In
that hollow area, there is guess what, *water*! So we have:

- "German toilet": Little water.

- ""Normal" toilet": More water.

- US toilet: Water up to your deleted.

The webpage whines about having to flush the toilet eight or ten
times. Well, I've seen no big difference in the flushing effectiveness.
All of them need an extra flush once in a while. BUT, with the US ones -
at least the ones I've seen in CA/NV - you don't have a brush+water
device in the 'rest'room! Do I need to describe the consequences of that
'oversight'!?

I had the same aversion to that design as he did. I presume
they were designed to allow some anally-obsessed people to
check stools for health purposes on a daily basis.

So you prefer them floating around, instead of lying still!? And you
confess to that in a *public newsgroup*!? :-) That visit to your house
was not very likely to ever happen to begin with, but now it has even
become less likely! :-)

[...]

Alan S wrote:

The American system of the bernoulli suction effect was
equally strange to us, with their high waterline and an
unfortunate tendency to block easily. Again, someone else
has described it better than I could:
http://www.alldownunder.com/oz-k/rea...an-toilets.htm

Thanks for the link Alan.

Frank Slootweg wrote:

Your description doesn't compute. With 'shelf' do you mean a moving,
probably metal, plate in the 'output pipe' (don't know the right term
for the latter? Or do you mean the bottom of a US-style toilet, but
without the few gallons of water, i.e. the 'shelf' is not a seperate
component, but just the bottom of the ceramic toilet?

This website describes it, with pictures:

http://www.alldownunder.com/oz-k/rea...an-toilets.htm

Quote:

"Not so the German toilet. The excrement lands on a bone-dry horizontal
shelf, mere inches beneath one's posterior. Repeated flushings are
required to slide the ordure off the shelf into a small water-filled
hole, from which it hopefully disappears. See?"

John Kulp wrote:


Really? Born, bred and served in the US military, which gives me a
much better claim to being one that some draft dodger hiding Canuck.

Not dodging in Afghanistan are they?

pltrgyst wrote:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:10:37 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

John Kulp wrote:

Excuse me? Our sales taxes range from zero to around 8%....

I just took the stack of receipts we have. The *very first*, a toy
car, is already 8.5%, i.e. already *above* the maximum you mention.

The US generally has state sales taxes. The California state sales tax is 7.25%.

On top of this, you may have smaller district, county, or city sales taxes
(generally less than 1%). The total of all sales taxes may indeed range as high
as 8.5%.

The *second* one, a meal, is already 12.3%!

Many cities have special restaurant taxes in addition to the general sales tax.

The *third*, a motel bill, is 12%.

Most cities have special occupancy taxes for hotels in addition to the general
sales tax.

Thanks! So the *total* *tax* is indeed often much higher than what
John said. That was my point. I already knew that *sales* tax wasn't the
only tax, that why I *started* by saying "your *product* (i.e. sales,
VAT, whatever) taxes", i.e. *any* tax which is added to the listed/
advertized price.

[Reposted. Please don't cut the newsgroups (without saying so).]

pltrgyst wrote:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:10:37 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

John Kulp wrote:

Excuse me? Our sales taxes range from zero to around 8%....

I just took the stack of receipts we have. The *very first*, a toy
car, is already 8.5%, i.e. already *above* the maximum you mention.

The US generally has state sales taxes. The California state sales tax is 7.25%.

On top of this, you may have smaller district, county, or city sales taxes
(generally less than 1%). The total of all sales taxes may indeed range as high
as 8.5%.

The *second* one, a meal, is already 12.3%!

Many cities have special restaurant taxes in addition to the general sales tax.

The *third*, a motel bill, is 12%.

Most cities have special occupancy taxes for hotels in addition to the general
sales tax.

Thanks! So the *total* *tax* is indeed often much higher than what
John said. That was my point. I already knew that *sales* tax wasn't the
only tax, that why I *started* by saying "your *product* (i.e. sales,
VAT, whatever) taxes", i.e. *any* tax which is added to the listed/
advertized price.