Mariner of The Seas vs. Ocean Liners of The Past

Karen Segboer wrote:
Benjamin Smith wrote:



Right, but I'm not looking to adopt the cultures, just a sense of
putting business in a cultural context in a way that is well suited
to a
Western society. And I'm not expecting this to happen overnight or
perhaps in our lifetimes. But as we go more and more toward
globalization and include different cultures in business in a global

sense, perhaps some new (to us) sensibilities will seep into the how
and
why of what we do in business. And I hope our efficiencies benefit
their
societies.

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I wonder if our culture could find a way
to do that, Ben. I think the opposite has become more true, with
some Asian societies becoming more and more like our Western
cultures.
Japan is full of businessmen in American business suits, scrambling
to
be as ruthless as western businessmen. They admire western culture
and dress, western fads and food. They work hard, teach their
children to do the same, to the point of teen suicide becoming an
increasing problem in . Kids in some of the cultures you admire work
so hard, even as young people, that they kill themselves rather than
disrespect their families with poor grades or failure to be accepted
into prestigious schools.


I wouldn't say I admire any current culture and you bring up very valid
issues. Yes, some of the more crass Western values have penetrated
some of the older cultures. And these cultures have their own
challenges and issues to future generations and what can be argued as
stagnant aspects to deal with and in some cases overcome. I mention
other cultures as alternative ways of seeing things in a philisophical
sense. I really don't have an "ideal" culture in mind in the form of
any existing culture. I just think people should challenge the notion
of so many things, like the obsession with money and fame, and think of
the possibilities and many forms that things can take. Sure, businesses
can be money-making entities, and to some degree must be to survive,
but they also fit into a greater social and cultural context. So how
they operate doesn't have to be one way or another, despite whatever
strident declarations of absolutes any business advocate may state.

On the other hand, maybe some of our Western youth need to have just
a
bit of that kind of dedication to greatness.


Yes. Youth feel pressure. Would you agree to that? I think some
American youth have a dedication to winning as opposed to greatness.
But, some American youth have a dedication to greatness as they
recognize it in some form.

My concern with Western youth, or at least American youth, is a sense
that they don't know just how well off they are and some possess a
sense of entitlement. However, I think the I want more than what you
have desire is part of human nature that is present in most human
cultures.

As with many things, humans tend to overdo a good thing. I think
what
we all need is to find balance within our own lives and not look to
others to show us the way. Their way may not be our way.


I agree with you. No one has all of the "right" answers or solutions.
I look for wisdom of the world. I don't care where it comes from. I
started Yoga a few weeks ago and I'm amazed at what the ancients knew
about healthy poses, breathing, stretching, and how it all fits ito
self discovery and self matters.

The United States is a very interesting place. Very contradictory. We
say we value individuality yet we are either cliquish or sheep. We say
we value variety yet we accept standardization in many areas. We say we
want to integrate yet there may be a natural tendency for many people
to be around "our own". We are very much a consumer and I feel
overconsuming society. My wife just got back from Belgium and one of
the first things she commented on is just how gigantic our vehicles
are. But we are also underconsuming of so much culture that is
accessible to us (this availability I feel is America's big strength).
And I wonder if we will be able to create world-class authors,
musicians, literature, with our emphasis on what's bestselling and
often, unfortuantely, sexy, and not really sexy as we are very
unknowledgeable about sex. Artie Shaw dies, much bigger news in Europe
and Japan than the United States; yet he was American. These are but
some of my observations and concerns.

I'm not particularly optimistic, either. Especially when it comes to
majorities of people or mass thinking and I think a lot of it is
directed from powerful places. That's why I strive for sensitivity, and
thankfully, I'm not alone.

Nice discussion, Karen.

Ben S.

Karen


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http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews =AE
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

LEE:
Do not sit on the deck and doze off,either people watch,enjoy a book,or
just find peace watching the ocean,and relaxing,which is what we go
for,balcony not worth the price they want, and you can not mingle on a
balcony. surfer e2468

LEE:
Do not sit on the deck and doze off,either people watch,enjoy a book,or
just find peace watching the ocean,and relaxing,which is what we go
for,balcony not worth the price they want, and you can not mingle on a
balcony. surfer e2468

Most of the ships we have been on where the promenade deck is under the
life boats,they do not have lounge chairs,and you can not sit,they use
it for jogging or shuffle board,we put a lounge chair on the promenade
deck of one ship,and they politely came and asked us to move,and they
took the lounges away. ,and
on balcony's you have the sun one way or the other,either coming or
going,so on the days the balcony's have sun,they are useless to us,since
my husbands medication for high blood pressure does not let him
sunbath,he gets sun poison
surfer e2468

Most of the ships we have been on where the promenade deck is under the
life boats,they do not have lounge chairs,and you can not sit,they use
it for jogging or shuffle board,we put a lounge chair on the promenade
deck of one ship,and they politely came and asked us to move,and they
took the lounges away. ,and
on balcony's you have the sun one way or the other,either coming or
going,so on the days the balcony's have sun,they are useless to us,since
my husbands medication for high blood pressure does not let him
sunbath,he gets sun poison
surfer e2468

In article , SJF
wrote:

What are Dockers? (Shows ignorance..but pleads "I am not American"!)

It is a brand of Khakis owned by Levi Strauss. Cotton pants, which come
in a variety of colors, not just khaki, but black, blue, green, grey,
etc. Some styles pleated, some flat front. I don't usually actualy buy
the Dockers "brand" but Dockers has become sort of become a generic
name for that type of cotton trousers.

--
Charles

In article , SJF
wrote:

What are Dockers? (Shows ignorance..but pleads "I am not American"!)

It is a brand of Khakis owned by Levi Strauss. Cotton pants, which come
in a variety of colors, not just khaki, but black, blue, green, grey,
etc. Some styles pleated, some flat front. I don't usually actualy buy
the Dockers "brand" but Dockers has become sort of become a generic
name for that type of cotton trousers.

--
Charles

On 4 Jan 2005 12:18:47 -0800, Benjamin Smith wrote:

I experienced one of these on the Constellation with Sue's group. It
was a huge corner balcony. It was well and good for the group and for
whoever's in the room. However, I can't help but think that only a few
of the ship's 2000 plus pax on this 91,000 ton ship can enjoy this
area.

Same could be said of bow cabins and unaccessible helicopter decks.

The advantage is one doesn't have to mingle or be in a public
area and can be outside enjoying the ship's wake and other sea
sensations at any time they wish.

Add to that limited traffic flow, ability to view port/aft or starboard/aft
at the same time, increased balcony space, unusual room configurations, etc
etc

The disadvantage is that only a
limited amount of people can enjoy it, they can only enjoy it in their
particular cubicle or piece of ship, and only on the level of their
balcony. Access to lower levels of the ship from upper levels, or vice
versa, without going inside, is not possible for all of the ship's
passengers. [What makes the MIllennium ships even worse is that they
have no stern area of their promenade deck, it is only on the side. Not
fore nor aft.]

With the balconies on the side of the ships, deck area really wasn't
taken away from ship pax.

Depends on design. Not all balconies are hung off the hull. See QM2.

With the stern balconies, it is.

Or you could say that the ship was enlarged to accomodate the stern cabins
and the ratio of public space per pax.

Such
privitization of ship space seems very unfortunate to me, and it is a
feature and direction (private or public deck space) that really turns
me off about the newer generation of ships.

Jeez, you can get so anal over relatively nothing. Privatization of ship
pace? Did you make that up? Want open doored, no stalled, mixed gender
public bathrooms too?

Considering all that the modern day cruise ship offers that even the QE2
didn't, losing the stern spaces to private = $$$$ is little compensation.

Karen Segboer wrote:

Ben, it sounds as though you met up with the "Color Me Beutiful"
people on the Century ... or a variation of them. Everybody is
assigned a season, which denotes which colors look best on them. I
think it works! You'll find very little, if any, brown, olive green
or yellow in my wardrobe.


I think it works also.

Karen, a "Winter"

Ben

"Benjamin Smith" wrote:


When I was aboard the Century I attended a clothes to person match
demonstration. The idea was that certain people's features/skin tones,
etc., matched a season. So, some colors worked well with people
designated as a season and others did not. Black is considered a
neutral by many, and slimming by many. That's what I think the
attraction is for a good amount of woman, many of whom wish to look
slimmer than they are (even very slim ones). For men, black and grey
are popular for suits with ties and sometimes hankerchiefs or shirts
adding some punch to the suit. Sometimes the fabrics and patterns of
the suits add punch, but it depends on whether the suit is for
businesswear or dresswear how pronounced the patterns or sheen may be.
The danger of wearing any one color or fabric is that in groups, people
tend to look like they are in uniforms, and nobody really stands out.

The clothing demonstration revealed that clothes can indeed complement
people's appearance or take away from their appearance and one color or
type of fabric doesn't work with everybody. Certain colors can make
people's eyes pop, or accentuate their cheekbones, etc. where other
colors can make them appear washed out, older, frumpy, etc. So, the
basic black doesn't necessarily work on some people and doesn't slim
everyone. Jeans don't work on all people, at least in terms of
accentuating their appearance, just due to their color and fabric
patterns and the worn look that they get with repeated washes and wear.

So, black is fine. For some. Dockers are fine, for some. Jeans are OK,
but at this point I'd argue they are default wear, quite uninteresting
and people look very uniformed when all are wearing them (unless they
are carefully cut and/or accentated by another article of clothing).
Like many things, what works best is a match to the person. And many
times it takes other eyes to assist the buyer, or knowledgeable eyes to
steer them.

Ben S.


--
Charles



__ /7__/7__/7__
\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews ®
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Karen Segboer wrote:

Ben, it sounds as though you met up with the "Color Me Beutiful"
people on the Century ... or a variation of them. Everybody is
assigned a season, which denotes which colors look best on them. I
think it works! You'll find very little, if any, brown, olive green
or yellow in my wardrobe.


I think it works also.

Karen, a "Winter"

Ben

"Benjamin Smith" wrote:


When I was aboard the Century I attended a clothes to person match
demonstration. The idea was that certain people's features/skin tones,
etc., matched a season. So, some colors worked well with people
designated as a season and others did not. Black is considered a
neutral by many, and slimming by many. That's what I think the
attraction is for a good amount of woman, many of whom wish to look
slimmer than they are (even very slim ones). For men, black and grey
are popular for suits with ties and sometimes hankerchiefs or shirts
adding some punch to the suit. Sometimes the fabrics and patterns of
the suits add punch, but it depends on whether the suit is for
businesswear or dresswear how pronounced the patterns or sheen may be.
The danger of wearing any one color or fabric is that in groups, people
tend to look like they are in uniforms, and nobody really stands out.

The clothing demonstration revealed that clothes can indeed complement
people's appearance or take away from their appearance and one color or
type of fabric doesn't work with everybody. Certain colors can make
people's eyes pop, or accentuate their cheekbones, etc. where other
colors can make them appear washed out, older, frumpy, etc. So, the
basic black doesn't necessarily work on some people and doesn't slim
everyone. Jeans don't work on all people, at least in terms of
accentuating their appearance, just due to their color and fabric
patterns and the worn look that they get with repeated washes and wear.

So, black is fine. For some. Dockers are fine, for some. Jeans are OK,
but at this point I'd argue they are default wear, quite uninteresting
and people look very uniformed when all are wearing them (unless they
are carefully cut and/or accentated by another article of clothing).
Like many things, what works best is a match to the person. And many
times it takes other eyes to assist the buyer, or knowledgeable eyes to
steer them.

Ben S.


--
Charles



__ /7__/7__/7__
\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews ®
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)