Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport

wrote in message
ups.com...

Anarcissie wrote:
Sancho Panza wrote:
"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
"brique"
Nobody was 'sueing against the display of trees'. a
rabbi threatened to sue if the airport did not also
display symbols of his religion alongside the trees.

But they were displaying trees, and not a manger,
because the manger is a symbol of the Christian
religion, and the trees are not.

If the trees are not a religious symbol, why is there so much fervor to
display them?

Yes, that's the question. Why is it so important?

It's a tradition for most people. What makes you think everything has
to have religious connotations?
The menorah is a political symbol too, like the swastika:
http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp

It's not the same candleabrum.

wrote in message
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Sancho Panza wrote:
"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
"James A. Donald"
But you guys are trying to suppress even the secular
aspects of Christmas - you were suing against the
display of Christmas trees, not the display of
stables and mangers. You are suing against the
stuff that people see in Singapore

"Sancho Panza"
Pretty fast on the trigger with "you guys." Just what
guys do you mean?

By "you guys" I mean everyone that gets so enraged by
the symbols of Christianity that they cannot even stand
symbols that are associated with the symbols of
Christianity - I mean commies, militant Jews, radical
islamists, Gaia worshippers, the usual. Hindus,
animists and ancestor worshippers somehow never have
this problem.

But you are saying in posts right around this one that it is not a
religious
symbol. Which is it, religious or not? If it's a symbol of Christianity,
as
you say here, why should other faiths not be similarly represented?

What it actually is is the national icon for the "state" of Israel:
http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp

So, It's a political symbol for start.

Actually the one you cite is not the one for Hanukah.

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
On 13-Dec-2006, " wrote:

James A. Donald wrote:
But you guys are trying to suppress even the secular
aspects of Christmas - you were suing against the
display of Christmas trees

Who was suing against what display of Xmas trees? The ones in SEATAC?\

Even if anyone was - which no one is doing - the proof
that the trees and all the other attendent crap really is NOT
secular is that it is ONLY brought out AT XMAStime.

???? Did you think that Christmas trees should be brought out on the
4th of July?

There is an undoubtedly religious side to Christmas. Trees are not part
of that. Trees are part of the secular side. The Rabbi complained about
trees.

The rabbi didn't complain about the trees. He made a request for his own
display. Quite a difference there.

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:38:26 -0800, markzoom wrote:


Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:02:49 -0800, Laura Sanchez wrote:

Too bad Christianity doesn't return the favor.


Excuse me? It's Christians that are the only ones defending Israel and
denouncing anti-Semitism.

By refusing to add a menorah to the airport display?

It's not just some kind of festive decoration.
The menorah is the NATIONAL EMBLEM OF THE "STATE" OF ISRAEL Like the
eagle is to the US!:

http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp

I would find it highly offensive to have an 8 foot foreign state
emblem displayed by legal imposition in my country. But hey, maybe
yanks should know who their real masters are.

That's stupid.

Oh? I bet there would be an army of zionist shysters beating down doors
if a Muslim Iman insisted on an 8' crescent and moon displayed at US
airports on Muslim religious holidays.

Doesn't matter what it means in Israel, this isn't Israel.

So you wouldn't mind an 8' swastika, a symbol used in various current
and recognised religions, either then?
Many of those that know a Menorah is the official emblem of the Israeli
government would see it as a symbol of another invasion of territory.

Here, many regard it as a religious symbol.

In the US, only less than 2% do. Did you know that there are just as
many muslims as jews in the US, btw?

If we're going to let one
religious symbol be displayed on public property at public expense, we
should let all of them be displayed.

You'll find that many places won't display anything at all instead of
being forced to incur the expense of purchasing and managing the
displays of dozens of minority religions on their festivals year round.
In a way that would be victory for the zionist Rabbi too.... and a blow
to freedom.



--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.

wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:02:49 -0800, Laura Sanchez wrote:

Too bad Christianity doesn't return the favor.


Excuse me? It's Christians that are the only ones defending Israel and
denouncing anti-Semitism.

By refusing to add a menorah to the airport display?

It's not just some kind of festive decoration.
The menorah is the NATIONAL EMBLEM OF THE "STATE" OF ISRAEL Like the
eagle is to the US!:

http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp

You are confused.

The Menorah, the symbol that appears in the official seal of the state
of Israel, is a seven-arm candelabra; the Hanukiyah, the "Hanuka
menorah" has a different number of arms. They are different emblems,
just like the Star of David is different from the Wiccan five-pointed
star.

Arturo Magidin

In article . com,
wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:38:26 -0800, markzoom wrote:


Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:02:49 -0800, Laura Sanchez wrote:

Too bad Christianity doesn't return the favor.


Excuse me? It's Christians that are the only ones defending Israel and
denouncing anti-Semitism.

By refusing to add a menorah to the airport display?

It's not just some kind of festive decoration.
The menorah is the NATIONAL EMBLEM OF THE "STATE" OF ISRAEL Like the
eagle is to the US!:

http://www.science.co.il/Israel-Emblem.asp

I would find it highly offensive to have an 8 foot foreign state
emblem displayed by legal imposition in my country. But hey, maybe
yanks should know who their real masters are.

That's stupid.

Oh? I bet there would be an army of zionist shysters beating down doors
if a Muslim Iman insisted on an 8' crescent and moon displayed at US
airports on Muslim religious holidays.

Doesn't matter what it means in Israel, this isn't Israel.

So you wouldn't mind an 8' swastika, a symbol used in various current
and recognised religions, either then?

The nazi swastika is different from the symbol in eastern religions;
the fold goes the other way.

Many of those that know a Menorah is the official emblem of the Israeli
government would see it as a symbol of another invasion of territory.

The Hanukyah (Hanukah-menorah) is different from the Menorah in the
national emblem. Much like the star of David is different from the wiccan 5
pointed star.

The Menorah in the national emblem is a seven-branched
candelabrum. The Hanukyah, by contrast, is a nine-branched
candelabrum.


Not that it is relevant here. A rabbi requested permission for putting
up a Hanukah display alongside the Christmas display. Rather than
allow it, the airport officials decided opening it up to a second
religion would force them to open it up to any and all religions, and
they decided they prefered to remove the Christmas display rather than
have an open forum.

--
================================================== ====================
"It's not denial. I'm just very selective about
what I accept as reality."
--- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes" by Bill Watterson)
================================================== ====================

Arturo Magidin
magidin-at-member-ams-org

James A. Donald:
But Xmastime is the time of the return of the sun -
it follows the shortest day of the year. Nothing
directly to do, except symbolically, with the birth
of that notorious Jewish heretic that you seem to be
so remarkably upset by.

Mike Hunt
That is the point. It is symbolically linked to the
birth of Christ, hence the name of the holiday.

But then, your basic grievance, or flavia's basic
grievance, is having a holiday on christmas, hence the
impossibility of appeasing the lawsuit mongers by any
lesser measure.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

"James A. Donald"
By "you guys" I mean everyone that gets so enraged
by the symbols of Christianity that they cannot even
stand symbols that are associated with the symbols
of Christianity - I mean commies, militant Jews,
radical islamists, Gaia worshippers, the usual.
Hindus, animists and ancestor worshippers somehow
never have this problem.

"Sancho Panza"
But you are saying in posts right around this one that
it is not a religious symbol.

It is not a religious symbol. It is something that
reminds you guys of a religious symbol - as I said, a
symbol of a symbol. You see the tree and think about
mangers. The fact that you are taking offense shows
that no concessions whatever can ever stop you from
being offended.

The manger is not there because we already had this
thing - people tried putting up a manger *and* a
menorah, and just got a longer queue of people
threatening lawsuits and engaging in lawsuits. So they
gave up on mangers. Now it is happening all over again
with any indications of Christmas whatsoever.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

--
"James A. Donald"
any one who not only does not celebrate it, but gets
upset and offended by other people celebrating it,
is indeed a bigot.

"Sancho Panza"
You would no doubt celebrate even more imams and
others taking out their prayer rugs and doing their
thing in the middle of a public place that you are
using.

There was no manger at the airport, nor any prayer. The
airport Christmas was carefully sanitized of anything
with the slightest connection to Christianity. The fact
that the threats of lawsuits continue shows that you
guys are entirely unappeasable, that no concession will
suffice, that any concession merely strengthens demands
for further concessions.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

James A. Donald wrote:
"James A. Donald"
By "you guys" I mean everyone that gets so enraged
by the symbols of Christianity that they cannot even
stand symbols that are associated with the symbols
of Christianity - I mean commies, militant Jews,
radical islamists, Gaia worshippers, the usual.
Hindus, animists and ancestor worshippers somehow
never have this problem.

"Sancho Panza"
But you are saying in posts right around this one that
it is not a religious symbol.

It is not a religious symbol. It is something that
reminds you guys of a religious symbol - as I said, a
symbol of a symbol. You see the tree and think about
mangers. The fact that you are taking offense shows
that no concessions whatever can ever stop you from
being offended.

The manger is not there because we already had this
thing - people tried putting up a manger *and* a
menorah, and just got a longer queue of people
threatening lawsuits and engaging in lawsuits. So they
gave up on mangers. Now it is happening all over again
with any indications of Christmas whatsoever.

Apparently a lot of Christians are under the impression
that Christmas trees and Santa Claus are Christian
symbols, in spite of their obvious paganism. I suppose
this irks people who find state-sponsored religious
displays offensive. I myself don't really care about the
religion part, I just find them banal. In fact, they'd be
less banal if more religion were involved.

Of course there is not an impermeable barrier between
religious and non-religious Winter Solstice symbols
and practices. For instance, some Christians have been
noticed adopting the menorah, just as they lifted Santa
Claus and the Christmas tree from the pagans.

Holidays of enforced jollity are all part of living a life of
quiet desperation. As the great Quentin Crisp said,
"When people are happy there is no need for festivities."