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Trip Report - SDF-DTW-AMS-BCN-MAD-JFK-CVG-SDF



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 3rd, 2003, 03:16 PM
Simon Elliott
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Default Trip Report - SDF-DTW-AMS-BCN-MAD-JFK-CVG-SDF

Steve writes
While not air related, the Metro Line into Madrid is extremely
nice. It's a bit of a walk to the Metro station, but it's nice and I was
impressed with Madrid's metro system compared to the Metro system in
Barcelona (which does not goto BCN).


There's quite a convenient train service between the airport and Plaça
Catalunya in the centre of Barcelona.

--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/






  #12  
Old November 3rd, 2003, 09:21 PM
Bal Anatis
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Default Shoe Nazis / TSA harassment

The Bill Mattocks wrote:
What else might they decide to change, just because they feel like it?


That is the problem. forcing airlines to dump metal knives for meals was as a
knee jerk reaction to the 9-11 highjackers, not from a well thought out
security policy.

Doing the shoe inspection thing wasn't the result of a well thought out
security policy, but a knee jerk reaction to the shoe bomber.

These measures don't inspire confidence that the TSA is proactively bettering
security, it reminds one that the TSA acts to respond to political pressures
from single events that make it to the news media.

Upon its formation, the TSA should have been given a 1 or 2 year mandate to
setup security at airports without ANY political intervention and draw up a
comprehensive plan both on a national scale (standards) as well as on a local
scale (what design changes are needed at each airport).

Without political influence, the TSA could have consulted experts, gone to
other countries to see how they do things etc etc and then come up with a
competent plan that has credibility.


Maybe the TSA is doing this behind the scenes. But its image is tarnished by
the stories of funny stuff happening at airports.

Now, if the TSA were to come forward and tell it like it is: "sorry folks, but
at x% of airports, physical access to airside security is insufficient, and it
will take x millions and x amount of time to fix each individual airport".
Until this is done, you can expect more events such as the kid placing clay
and other stuff in air aircraft."

The same could have been said about luggage screening. The TSA should have
come out very publicly stating exactly what it would take to get a decent
luggage screening, including not only the money but also time.

TSA needs to take a leadership role instead of just reacting to what
politicians/media are saying.
  #13  
Old November 4th, 2003, 06:44 AM
The Bill Mattocks
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Default Shoe Nazis / TSA harassment

Bal Anatis wrote in message ...
That is the problem. forcing airlines to dump metal knives for meals was as a
knee jerk reaction to the 9-11 highjackers, not from a well thought out
security policy.


Agreed.

Doing the shoe inspection thing wasn't the result of a well thought out
security policy, but a knee jerk reaction to the shoe bomber.


Agreed.

These measures don't inspire confidence that the TSA is proactively bettering
security, it reminds one that the TSA acts to respond to political pressures
from single events that make it to the news media.


Agreed.

Upon its formation, the TSA should have been given a 1 or 2 year mandate to
setup security at airports without ANY political intervention and draw up a
comprehensive plan both on a national scale (standards) as well as on a local
scale (what design changes are needed at each airport).


While I appreciate your thoughtful take on this, I have to disagree.
The TSA should never have been formed. Its very existance violates
the US Fourth Amendment - unreasonable search and seizure. Now, had
it been a private organization, or (my suggestion at the time), the US
Coast Guard, then I could apply your comments above and agree with
them.

Without political influence, the TSA could have consulted experts, gone to
other countries to see how they do things etc etc and then come up with a
competent plan that has credibility.


But I think we both know that this was going to be political. There
was very little way to avoid it. First, the politicians reacted like
humans do - with shock and horror. Then, they got back to the dirty
business of manipulating the situation to create maximum advantage,
power, and money for themselves.

Maybe the TSA is doing this behind the scenes. But its image is tarnished by
the stories of funny stuff happening at airports.


The TSA is a farce, but what's worse is that it is a dangerous farce.

Now, if the TSA were to come forward and tell it like it is: "sorry folks, but
at x% of airports, physical access to airside security is insufficient, and it
will take x millions and x amount of time to fix each individual airport".
Until this is done, you can expect more events such as the kid placing clay
and other stuff in air aircraft."


Agreed. Most politicos seem to believe that US citizens can't handle
the truth.

The same could have been said about luggage screening. The TSA should have
come out very publicly stating exactly what it would take to get a decent
luggage screening, including not only the money but also time.


Agreed.

TSA needs to take a leadership role instead of just reacting to what
politicians/media are saying.


The TSA is going to be out of business very soon. The law that forces
airports to use TSA services expires in 2004 (as I understand it) -
then they can choose to continue to use the TSA, or go with private
security. Unless the law is amended (which could happen, depends on
circumstances), I believe that most airports will dump the TSA - there
is no love lost there.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
  #15  
Old November 4th, 2003, 02:28 PM
Justin
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Default Shoe Nazis / TSA harassment


The TSA is going to be out of business very soon. The law that forces
airports to use TSA services expires in 2004 (as I understand it) -
then they can choose to continue to use the TSA, or go with private
security. Unless the law is amended (which could happen, depends on
circumstances), I believe that most airports will dump the TSA - there
is no love lost there.



Ah - the stupidest poster here is back.

The TSA isn't "going out of business" in 2004. Their contract expires
in November of 2004, and the individual airport has the choice to
renew it. Already (1 year in advance) 50% of airports said they would
renew it. Why? Because if they don't they are responcible for
security and 75% of the costs (with TSA chipping in the other 25%).
So they are going to obviously save the money, and keep with whats
working.

The rest of your post was just stupid and boring, so I won't even
bother to respond to it.
  #17  
Old November 4th, 2003, 02:48 PM
Randy Hudson
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Posts: n/a
Default Shoe Nazis / TSA harassment

In article ,
Binyamin Dissen wrote:

You have the choice to refuse the search and not fly.


If you refuse the search, you will not be permitted to simply return to
landside. You will be detained and questioned at the least.

--
Randy Hudson
  #19  
Old November 4th, 2003, 03:06 PM
None
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shoe Nazis / TSA harassment


"Randy Hudson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Binyamin Dissen wrote:

You have the choice to refuse the search and not fly.


If you refuse the search, you will not be permitted to simply return to
landside. You will be detained and questioned at the least.

If you're dumb enough to get into a security check point line to begin with,
knowing full well you're going to buck the system and refuse the search,
then you deserve everything you get, including the full-fisted rectal exam!

WHEN YOU BUY AN AIRLINE TICKET you are bound by their contract just as much
as they are bound to you - you agree to their security proceedures, you
agree to submit yourself and your belongings that you are taking with you to
a security screening process conducted by the TSA. Previously, those
searches were done by privately run companies. There is no difference.

I can't stand to hear constitutional arguments regarding air transportation.
First, your constitutional rights were put on hold at best by the Shrub
after 9/11 created the patriot act. You can now be detained indefinitely
without ever being charged with anything. Therefore, I suggest that if you
get in line for airport security checks, that you keep your big dissenting
yap closed or suffer the consequences.


 




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