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#1
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Air France? Ptui!
When I went to the Air France office
to get credit for the trip we won't be able to take because of my wife's sudden illness, it took only a few seconds before I realized I wasn't going to get any further there than I had gotten with AF's phone center. The reason is that the guy there didn't have any more authority to settle the issue than did the phone people. (If there's anything I've learned in life as a consumer, it's not to waste time making a case to somebody who has no authority to negotiate.) In the end he referred me to AF's customer service bureacracy in Florida, to which I can apply only in writing. It was pointless to argue the actual issues of the matter because he didn't know what his company's rules were. When I showed him a printout of the Force Majeure rule, he said, well, that was something that might be on the Web site, but "they" -- this is how he referred to his employer -- were known to make exceptions only in the case of hospitalization, etc. It was this "they" that tipped me off right away that further discussion would be academic. Any company that values consumer goodwill would by this time have acted on the adage that "the customer is always right." I mean, I was willing to take time off from work and go down there in person, for chrissake. I'm going to pursue the matter; get a doctor's note, write the letter, even if ultimately all I'm left with is just a good story about how I found out why France is a second-rate power. The substantive issues -- the meaning of force majeure, etc., I'll take up in a thread shortly that I'll cross-post from misc.legal. -- Charles Packer mailboxATcpacker.org http://cpacker.org/whatnews |
#3
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Air France? Ptui!
"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in
: Joseph Coulter wrote: wrote in news:1140179951.484494.178440 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: When I went to the Air France office to get credit for the trip we won't be able to take because of my wife's sudden illness, it took only a few seconds before I realized I wasn't going to get any further there than I had gotten with AF's phone center. The reason is that the guy there didn't have any more authority to settle the issue than did the phone people. ( Charles Packer mailboxATcpacker.org http://cpacker.org/whatnews From what you hve written, and there may be more tothe story, your position is no different than that of thousands of consumers dealing with almost any airline. The best you can normally hope for is a penalty and afuture credit. As I see it the issue is not how the question is resolved. The problem is that apparently no one who is available actually has any authority to resolve an issue. It is an interesting comment on the company that they appear to not trust their line employees to resolve the problem either by making the customer happy or by representing the company in deciding to **** off the customer. It certainly looks as though they need some considerable effort in the staff training area. read again Frank, the guy didn't like the answer, then didn't like the same answer the second time, but we have not been told the answer. I deduce from that that the OP was not pleased with what was most likely a "No, you cannot have a refund, but you can change your reservation for a fee." response. -- Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations http://www.josephcoulter.com/ |
#4
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Air France? Ptui!
Not entirely sure of the origins of this thread ??, but I have to agree on
Air France. My family and I had the worst customer service we have ever experienced; and we were on separate flights to Australia this christmas. It was simply awful, the word "rude" just does not get close. Never, ever again will we travel Air France regardless of how cheap the price is. In a word they are "crap" "qu'est-ce que c'est" wrote in message ... wrote: snip Air France story I have to laugh whenever I hear one of these Air France "customer service" horror stories. People just don't understand: The French have no concept of "customer service". They don't know what it is, they don't undersand how it works, it is totally foreign to their culture. To the French, the customer is the enemy. French workers HATE their customers, almost as much as they hate having to show up for work (to do nothing for 35 hours a week while drawing full benefits and getting 6 weeks mandatory paid vacation per year). Expecting help from Air France, or any French company, is like drowning in the ocean and asking the sharks to rescue you. Unless you're Oprah (see Hermes). |
#5
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Air France? Ptui!
I agree. Replace Air France with any other airlines the answer will be
the same. There'll be a penalty with future credit. This has to be printed somewhere in the purchase agreement. |
#6
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Air France? Ptui!
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#7
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Air France? Ptui!
"mrtravel" digy.com...
wrote: When I went to the Air France office to get credit for the trip we won't be able to take because of my wife's sudden illness, it took only a few seconds before I realized I wasn't going to get any further there than I had gotten with AF's phone center. No, the customer isn't always right. If you want to buy a ticket that isn't as restrictive, pay more and buy one. Alternatively, why do you think there is trip insurance? I'll have to agree with this point of view (and apparantly that of Air France). The buyer bought knowingly a ticket with restrictions, restrictions which are known to be inflexible. Then the buyer thought to try out his luck and didn't buy a trip insurance just in case and now that there _is_ a problem, expects the same rights and offers and anyone who _did_ buy insurance or that did buy a much more expensive ticket with less restrictions. A sick wife is probably not going to qualify as a "Force Majeure" as people often get sick. At this point, I recommend submitting your request in a polite letter, and not lay the blame with them or tell them how bad the other people are. You need to be nice, and maybe you will get somewhere. Just because the other airline didn't enforce the rules, doesn't make it an obligation for Air France to do the same thing. These tickets with restrictions are for people like the buyer. Getting a good price, skip on the insurance and when it does go wrong... losing the money. A hard lesson to be learned. Next time a) read the rules, b) buy trip insurance, or c) buy a more expensive ticket, or d) do the same thing but accept you lost the bet. The buyer could ofcourse lower his desire to get credit just as the other airline gave and accept any other offer. Greetings, - you can't have your cake and eat it too |
#8
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Air France? Ptui!
Thur wrote: to be learned. Next time a) read the rules, b) buy trip insurance, or c) buy In the earlier thread I wrote about canceling my air tickets, I did complain that the Air France Web site was laughably evasive about revealing the restrictions. That has turned out to be irrelevant to the adventures recounted in this thread, which resulted when I DID read the rules. In the "Legal notices" section of its Web site, it says under "Tickets 1. General Provisions": (c) Some Tickets are sold at discounted fares, which may be partially or completely non-refundable. (d) If you have a Ticket, as described in (c) above, which is completely unused, and you are prevented from traveling due to Force Majeure... we will provide you with a credit... subject to deduction of a reasonable administration fee. In the glossary preceding this section is the definition of Force Majeu unusual and unforeseen circumstances beyond your control, the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all due care had been exercised. Does illness count as force majeure? If you do a Web search on ["force majeure" illness], you'll see that it does. Will Air France honor its own rules? I don't know at this point. When I called the rule to the attention of the phone center, they put me on hold for 10 minutes before saying they couln't do anything, and that I had to go in person to the local office. The supervisor there hadn't a clue either, and referred me to the write-in-only service center. My main point in my OP, as some followups did note, was how Air France holds the customer at arm's length, like some bad wine. -- Charles Packer mailboxATcpacker.org http://cpacker.org/whatnews |
#9
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Air France? Ptui!
I am afraid this is is misunderstanding. Clauses like "force majeure" or
"act of god" do not include illness or even death of passenger but only incidents that are caused by third party action (strike, war etc.) or natural disasters. This is a fact. You should contact a real lawyer, if you have doubts. Although Google is a good search engine, it will not be able to give you legal advice for your special situation. In my long year experience as a travel agent I can tell you that monetary damagages as a result of illness may be covered by the fare rules of your transportation contract with Air France. If not, you could have bought an insurance. You may tell us your exact fare name and I will be happy to pull the rules from my CRS and tell it to you. There is a pretty good definition of force majeure at http://www.library.yale.edu/~llicense/forcegen.shtml Regards Matthias wrote: Thur wrote: to be learned. Next time a) read the rules, b) buy trip insurance, or c) buy In the earlier thread I wrote about canceling my air tickets, I did complain that the Air France Web site was laughably evasive about revealing the restrictions. That has turned out to be irrelevant to the adventures recounted in this thread, which resulted when I DID read the rules. In the "Legal notices" section of its Web site, it says under "Tickets 1. General Provisions": (c) Some Tickets are sold at discounted fares, which may be partially or completely non-refundable. (d) If you have a Ticket, as described in (c) above, which is completely unused, and you are prevented from traveling due to Force Majeure... we will provide you with a credit... subject to deduction of a reasonable administration fee. In the glossary preceding this section is the definition of Force Majeu unusual and unforeseen circumstances beyond your control, the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all due care had been exercised. Does illness count as force majeure? If you do a Web search on ["force majeure" illness], you'll see that it does. Will Air France honor its own rules? I don't know at this point. When I called the rule to the attention of the phone center, they put me on hold for 10 minutes before saying they couln't do anything, and that I had to go in person to the local office. The supervisor there hadn't a clue either, and referred me to the write-in-only service center. My main point in my OP, as some followups did note, was how Air France holds the customer at arm's length, like some bad wine. -- Charles Packer mailboxATcpacker.org http://cpacker.org/whatnews |
#10
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Air France? Ptui!
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