With Global Warming A Fact....

Brian wrote:

Naturally occurring reservoirs that don't require dams? I'm not
familiar with any although they may occur someplace.

Abandoned Fluvial Channel Lake -- Fluviatile lake in which the outwash
channel from a glacier creates a lake.

Alluvial Fan Dam Lake -- When an alluvial fan completely crosses a
valley, blocks a stream or river, and creates an impoundment. Often
called simply fan dam lakes.

Cirque Lake -- Lake that forms in a mountain cirque. A cirque is a
half-open hollow in a mountain region that appears to have been
scooped out with an ice cream scooper. Glacially formed.

Fluviatile Lake -- any lake created as a by-product of an alluvial
fan. Alluvial Fan Impound Lakes are a specific type of Fluviatile
Lake.

Glacial Lake -- any lake created by glaciation.

Glacial Kettle Lake -- also called pothole lakes. Fill surrounded a
remnant chunk of glacier, and the ground level built up higher than
the bottom of the ice chunk. The ice chunk then melted, leaving a
pothole filled with water. In cases where these potholes are not water
filled year-round, the formation is simply called a kettle or a
pothole.

Ground Moraine Lake -- permanent water-filled basin, in which the
basin was created by ice-age glaciers.

Landslide Lake -- just like it sounds, a landslide slides down,
impounds a valley, forms a lake.

Moraine Lake -- a glacier deposits moraine, which impounds a valley,
which results in a lake.

Oxbow Lake -- when a bend in a river is cut off from the main river at
both ends (the river finds a new channel) and an impound remains.
Called a billabong in Australia.

Piedmont Lake -- glacially formed lake among mountain foothills.

Pothole Lake -- see Glacial Kettle Lake, above.

Scour Lake -- glacially formed lake in which the complete body is
"scoured" out of solid rock.

Solution Lake -- Impoundment created when water dissolves surface or
subsurface salt, limestone, or gypsum. The resulting hole then fills
with water. In some subsurface situations, the lake may be in the
collapsed "roof."

Volcanic Lake -- lake formed when waterway is impounded by a lava
flow.

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia

In article , David
Nebenzahl wrote:

Well, thanks for (gently) scolding me, but no thanks: you see, I'm not
going to write a doctoral thesis on the subject, nor am I planning to
become a consultant in the area of hydroelectric energy storage. I just
was wondering if *someone here* might have knowledge of such facilities,

Why would you expect an expert on power generation to be in
misc.transport.urban-transit or rec.travel.*?

You've already been given the information and didn't believe it.

as I don't, because I'm curious about their scale and siting. I frankly
am not interested enough to undertake an AltaVista search--so sue me. I
thought that was one of the functions of Usenet, obtaining information
from other people on a newsgroup. Apparently, I was wrong.


You've already been given basic information, and wanted some proof so that
means one of us has to go and dig up web sites for you. If you aren't
that interested in learning then why should someone else bother to do the
research for you?

Google: pump storage hydro

1st entrly is a Wikipedia entry, which isn't an official industry link so
it probably isn't too trustworthy (though you will find some interesting
stuff there).

2nd item that appears is the web site for the Electricity Storage
Association, and specifically a page about pumped storage hydro:
http://electricitystorage.org/tech/t...umpedhydro.htm

"Pumped hydro was first used in Italy and Switzerland in the 1890's. By
1933 reversible pump-turbines with motor-generators were available.
Adjustable speed machines are now being used to improve efficiency. Pumped
hydro is available at almost any scale with discharge times ranging from
several hours to a few days. Their efficiency is in the 70% to 85% range.

There is over 90 GW of pumped storage in operation world wide, which is
about 3 % of global generation capacity. Pumped storage plants are
characterized by long construction times and high capital expenditure.

Pumped storage is the most widespread energy storage system in use on
power networks. Its main applications are for energy management, frequency
control and provision of reserve."

--
-Glennl
The despammed service works OK, but unfortunately
now the spammers grab addresses for use as "from" address too!
e-mail hint: add 1 to quantity after gl to get 4317.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:51:09 -0800, ) wrote:

"Pumped hydro was first used in Italy and Switzerland in the 1890's. By
1933 reversible pump-turbines with motor-generators were available.
Adjustable speed machines are now being used to improve efficiency. Pumped
hydro is available at almost any scale with discharge times ranging from
several hours to a few days. Their efficiency is in the 70% to 85% range.

The TVA has a pumped storage plant outside Chattanooga. They chopped the top
off a mountain, put in pumps on the Tennessee River, and use that for
generation during heavy loads.. (Pump the water up at night when demand is
lower.. let it out the next day when demand is high...)

Rather impressive facility.. I visited it about 12 years ago...

On 2007-02-22 07:55:11 -0500, Bill Blomgren said:

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:51:09 -0800, ) wrote:

"Pumped hydro was first used in Italy and Switzerland in the 1890's. By
1933 reversible pump-turbines with motor-generators were available.
Adjustable speed machines are now being used to improve efficiency. Pumped
hydro is available at almost any scale with discharge times ranging from
several hours to a few days. Their efficiency is in the 70% to 85% range.

The TVA has a pumped storage plant outside Chattanooga. They chopped the top
off a mountain, put in pumps on the Tennessee River, and use that for
generation during heavy loads.. (Pump the water up at night when demand is
lower.. let it out the next day when demand is high...)

Rather impressive facility.. I visited it about 12 years ago...

There's one in Schoharie County, NY, just a few miles from where I live.

Bill Blomgren spake thus:

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:51:09 -0800, ) wrote:

"Pumped hydro was first used in Italy and Switzerland in the 1890's. By
1933 reversible pump-turbines with motor-generators were available.
Adjustable speed machines are now being used to improve efficiency. Pumped
hydro is available at almost any scale with discharge times ranging from
several hours to a few days. Their efficiency is in the 70% to 85% range.

The TVA has a pumped storage plant outside Chattanooga. They chopped the top
off a mountain, put in pumps on the Tennessee River, and use that for
generation during heavy loads.. (Pump the water up at night when demand is
lower.. let it out the next day when demand is high...)

Rather impressive facility.. I visited it about 12 years ago...

My belated thanks for providing real-world examples.

While chopping the top off a mountain ain't exactly my idea of
environmentally sensitive development, nonetheless the concept of hydro
storage seems doable, viable, and a good way to enable the use of
otherwise problematic (because intermittent) sources such as solar and wind.


--
Don't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the
forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a
time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating
like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a
variorum text that would be put up on that site.

It is a WASTE OF TIME.

- Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison)

In article , sechumlib
wrote:

off a mountain, put in pumps on the Tennessee River, and use that for
generation during heavy loads.. (Pump the water up at night when demand is
lower.. let it out the next day when demand is high...)

Rather impressive facility.. I visited it about 12 years ago...

There's one in Schoharie County, NY, just a few miles from where I live.

There are many, many, many such facilities everywhere. Just as a guess I
would say there are somewhere close to 20-30 such facilities in California
alone. Even on my slow modem connection I came up with great gobs of
results in a few minutes, tops. It's not like this is some modern new
technology that has just been invented.

--
-Glennl
The despammed service works OK, but unfortunately
now the spammers grab addresses for use as "from" address too!
e-mail hint: add 1 to quantity after gl to get 4317.

keep the crap away from rte

kirjoitti
...
In article , sechumlib
wrote:

off a mountain, put in pumps on the Tennessee River, and use that for
generation during heavy loads.. (Pump the water up at night when demand
is
lower.. let it out the next day when demand is high...)

Rather impressive facility.. I visited it about 12 years ago...

There's one in Schoharie County, NY, just a few miles from where I live.

There are many, many, many such facilities everywhere. Just as a guess I
would say there are somewhere close to 20-30 such facilities in California
alone. Even on my slow modem connection I came up with great gobs of
results in a few minutes, tops. It's not like this is some modern new
technology that has just been invented.

--
-Glennl
The despammed service works OK, but unfortunately
now the spammers grab addresses for use as "from" address too!
e-mail hint: add 1 to quantity after gl to get 4317.