New York waiter's worse nightmare? - Europeans

The service in the US is absolutely outstanding, however the issue
raised will regulate itself in a functioning economy.

The only identifyable problem is whether or not the waiter pays full
taxes on his/hers income or not.

Lower tips = higher taxes for the waiter, worse service.

Higher tips = lower taxes for the waiter, better service.

Conclusion - the US government loves it, while the general public
hates it.

Best wishes, Marcus
Tomlab Optimization Inc.
http://tomopt.com/
http://tomdyn.com/

"John Kulp" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:38:38 -0500, "Jim Davis"
wrote:


"Bert Hyman" wrote in message
...
(Jim Davis) wrote in
m:
"stonej" wrote in message

...
http://www.amny.com/business/am-tip0603,0,492920.story

It's not usually customary to tip in Europe.

And everybody knows that you're supposed to ignore the customs of the
places you visit.

A lot of people actually *do*.

Speak for yourself.


Plus, there are a LOT of people in the US who don't deserve a tip.

But you'll find very few of those people waiting tables in
restaurants.

Yeah-Right. No rude people waiting tables in the US.

He didn't say none. He said very few, which has certainly been my
experience. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, in this case, the
diner.

Some statements made on Usenet are called "sarcasm".

What gets me are places like buffets, where you pay when you enter. They
ask if you want to include the tip on your credit card. How the hell do I
know what the service will be like. If the waitperson is decent, I leave
a
generous tip. If not, I leave little or nothing.

Which is how it works.

No ****.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:38:53 -0700 (PDT), medvall
wrote:

The service in the US is absolutely outstanding, however the issue
raised will regulate itself in a functioning economy.

Not always. It does vary.


The only identifyable problem is whether or not the waiter pays full
taxes on his/hers income or not.

They pay an imputed tax.


Lower tips = higher taxes for the waiter, worse service.

Taxes are not that high here. You're thinking of Sweden.


Higher tips = lower taxes for the waiter, better service.

Yes, but not really because of taxes.


Conclusion - the US government loves it, while the general public
hates it.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?


Best wishes, Marcus
Tomlab Optimization Inc.
http://tomopt.com/
http://tomdyn.com/

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:13:40 -0700 (PDT), stonej
wrote:

http://www.amny.com/business/am-tip0603,0,492920.story

Replied as comment 15.

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: On Indian Roads

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:12:44 -0400, Shawn Hirn
wrote:

In article ,
(John Kulp) wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:38:53 -0700 (PDT), medvall
wrote:

The service in the US is absolutely outstanding, however the issue
raised will regulate itself in a functioning economy.

Not always. It does vary.


The only identifyable problem is whether or not the waiter pays full
taxes on his/hers income or not.

They pay an imputed tax.


Lower tips = higher taxes for the waiter, worse service.

Taxes are not that high here. You're thinking of Sweden.


Higher tips = lower taxes for the waiter, better service.

Yes, but not really because of taxes.


Conclusion - the US government loves it, while the general public
hates it.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I am wondering the same thing. I think the general public in the United
States likes tipping at restaurants. Tipping gives diners a measure of
control, and we Americans tend to be very controlling in such
situations. If most Americans loathed the tipping system, tipping would
have fallen by the wayside years ago.

As it says in the Bible: "revenge is mine sayeth the tipper."

Conclusion - the US government loves it, while the general public
hates it.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?



If you cannot attract employees due to low tips, you have to raise the
hourly pay. Tips are generelly not declared to 100 % by the recipient,
while a pay check would be. Hence, the restaurant/employee should
arrive at some sort of equilibrium while the government obtains a
higher tax base.

Best wishes, Marcus
Tomlab Optimization Inc.
http://tomopt.com/
http://tomdyn.com/

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:23:56 +1000, Alan S
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:13:40 -0700 (PDT), stonej
wrote:

http://www.amny.com/business/am-tip0603,0,492920.story

Replied as comment 15.

Someone didn't like it. Deleted:-(

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: On Indian Roads

stonej wrote:
http://www.amny.com/business/am-tip0603,0,492920.story

18-20% is outrageous. In Britain nobody would expect to leave a tip more
than a standard 10%, and only then for particularly good service.

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:57:26 -0400, Shawn Hirn
wrote:

In article ,
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:

stonej wrote:
http://www.amny.com/business/am-tip0603,0,492920.story

18-20% is outrageous. In Britain nobody would expect to leave a tip more
than a standard 10%, and only then for particularly good service.

This discussion is about tipping standards in the United States, not
Britain, specially New York City.

Actually, it's about the failure of New York restaurant
owners and waiters in restaurants catering to tourists to
understand that tipping in America is different to the rest
of the world and that it is wiser for them to understand
that and work out how to educate the tourists (unlikely) or
change their billing practices (wiser) to ensure that they
are adequately paid for their service rather than
continually moan about being stiffed by tourists.

At least the majority of visitors to the USA do take the
trouble to learn the system fairly quickly; that's more than
I can say about the reverse situation. Excessive tipping by
US tourists to my country is leading to an expectation of
the same, from locals in tourist areas here, by restaurant
staff here who are quite adequately paid before tips.

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: On Indian Roads

In article , Alan S
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:57:26 -0400, Shawn Hirn
wrote:

In article ,
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:

stonej wrote:
http://www.amny.com/business/am-tip0603,0,492920.story

18-20% is outrageous. In Britain nobody would expect to leave a tip more
than a standard 10%, and only then for particularly good service.

This discussion is about tipping standards in the United States, not
Britain, specially New York City.

Actually, it's about the failure of New York restaurant
owners and waiters in restaurants catering to tourists to
understand that tipping in America is different to the rest
of the world and that it is wiser for them to understand
that and work out how to educate the tourists (unlikely) or
change their billing practices (wiser) to ensure that they
are adequately paid for their service rather than
continually moan about being stiffed by tourists.

Actually, the referenced article made it quite clear that they had, in
some instances, found a remedy... They simply add 15-18% onto the bill.


At least the majority of visitors to the USA do take the
trouble to learn the system fairly quickly;

I'm just not sure how you could possibly know this, how do you know it?

jay
Sun Jun 22, 2008




that's more than
I can say about the reverse situation. Excessive tipping by
US tourists to my country is leading to an expectation of
the same, from locals in tourist areas here, by restaurant
staff here who are quite adequately paid before tips.

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: On Indian Roads