Air America breaking news: "USA to fingerprint ALL visitors !!!"

"Oelewapper" wrote in message
...
Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... :

This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks dealing
with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is "fascism".
When you lace your writing with such stupid hyperbole, you've lost your
credibility.

You're also mistaken if you think this will be limited to the US. Wealthy
democracies will all be implementing these very same procedures. If you
doubt me, wait and see what happens after the next round of terrorist
attacks.

Millions of visitors from some of the United States' closest allies soon
will have to be fingerprinted and photographed before entering the
country,
U.S. officials said yesterday.

"Quantum Foam Guy" wrote in message
...
"Oelewapper" wrote in message
...
Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... :

This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks
dealing
with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is
"fascism".
When you lace your writing with such stupid hyperbole, you've lost your
credibility.

Please note that fingerprinting is not nearly as common in, for example, the
UK, as in the USA.
Here, you have to be suspected of a crime to be foingerprinted, and if you
are innocent, those prints are destroyed.

You're also mistaken if you think this will be limited to the US. Wealthy
democracies will all be implementing these very same procedures. If you
doubt me, wait and see what happens after the next round of terrorist
attacks.

We have had many, many terrorist attacks in the UK (many financed by the
USA) and have never founnd this necessary or useful. I am 67 and have never
had my finger prints taken.
If the present government were to introduce it, then, in spite of being a
life long member opf the Labour party, at elections I would vote against
them. It matters that much.

So, I doubt you. Other countries are not so

Millions of visitors from some of the United States' closest allies soon
will have to be fingerprinted and photographed before entering the
country,
U.S. officials said yesterday.

There won't be as many millions in future.

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:55:44 -0600, "Quantum Foam Guy"
wrote:

"Oelewapper" wrote in message
...
Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... :

This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks dealing
with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is "fascism".

Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.



--==++AJC++==--

Quantum Foam Guy wrote:

Oelewapper wrote:

Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... :

This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks dealing
with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is "fascism".

I do consider it fascism. I also have never had my fingerprints taken
for a driver's license in the US.

When you lace your writing with such stupid hyperbole, you've lost your
credibility.

If you can't see creeping totalitarianism, then you must be part of the
problem.

You're also mistaken if you think this will be limited to the US. Wealthy
democracies will all be implementing these very same procedures. If you
doubt me, wait and see what happens after the next round of terrorist
attacks.

Not so. Just look at Europe with is about to go to court to prevent
airlines from passing passenger information to the US TSA as a violation
of European privacy laws. They seem to take privacy much more seriously
than the US, even though there have been many more terrorist attacks in
their home countries. They don't see the need to give up their rights
like the supposedly "free" USA to tackle terrorism.

"AJC" wrote in message
...
Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.


So how can we identify a person other than fingerprints? Passports, DLs, and
every other form of ID have been no problem to duplicate for terrorists.

In article ,
"Brian" writes:

"AJC" wrote in message
...
Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.


So how can we identify a person other than fingerprints? Passports, DLs, and
every other form of ID have been no problem to duplicate for terrorists.

Fingerprints aren't reliable, either. It seems that a number of agents
of the former Iraqi regime, and Al-Queda agents as well, have been
found travelling under Kuwaiti papers, with the appropriate
fingerprints on file. It seems that when Iraq took Kuwait in 1990,
Saddam's intel folks took the opportunity to plant some sleeper IDs,
and they've been renting them out.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:46:54 GMT, James Robinson
wrote:

Quantum Foam Guy wrote:

Oelewapper wrote:

Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... :

This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks dealing
with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is "fascism".

I do consider it fascism. I also have never had my fingerprints taken
for a driver's license in the US.

When you lace your writing with such stupid hyperbole, you've lost your
credibility.

If you can't see creeping totalitarianism, then you must be part of the
problem.

You're also mistaken if you think this will be limited to the US. Wealthy
democracies will all be implementing these very same procedures. If you
doubt me, wait and see what happens after the next round of terrorist
attacks.

Not so. Just look at Europe with is about to go to court to prevent
airlines from passing passenger information to the US TSA as a violation
of European privacy laws. They seem to take privacy much more seriously
than the US, even though there have been many more terrorist attacks in
their home countries. They don't see the need to give up their rights
like the supposedly "free" USA to tackle terrorism.

Exactly. The UK, Spain and other democracies have lived with terrorism
for many years. It is not always easy but it is important to keep a
balance between security and liberty. If you end up turning a country
in to a police state out of fear of terrorism, then the terrorists
have won.
--==++AJC++==--

In article , Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

"Brian" wrote in
:

So how can we identify a person other than fingerprints?

How exactly does fingerprinting help? Only if you have two fingerprints to
_compare_.

What about after some incident, you must agree that fingerprints can be
valuable at this point. Clearly they were used in Madrid, as they used
discovered prints at that house to ID conspirators.

jay
Sat Apr 03, 2004





One specimen (the person entering the country), one certified by
an authority that it belongs to that individual. If they match - OK, if
they don't match - fake! But if they only have the one, the authorities
can't tell anything from it. "Hello, here's my fake passports, hello,
here's my thumb". What's the point?

Passports,
DLs, and every other form of ID have been no problem to duplicate for
terrorists.

How about procedures which can identify counterfeit passports? Methods
exist, it would make sense, and there wouldn't be protests against putting
them in place, as it wouldn't involve storing information about innocent
individuals in government databases.

Regards

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:04:43 -0500, "Brian"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
.. .
Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.


So how can we identify a person other than fingerprints? Passports, DLs, and
every other form of ID have been no problem to duplicate for terrorists.

You could always wait for the biometric passports to arrive. The
reason the fingerprinting is being extended is that thebiometric
passports mandated by the US congress are running a little late (for
example the UK expects to have them available frommid-2005).

Oh, and just curious, but what's stopping the terrorists using
Canadian or US passports?

I'm just glad I get an exemption from the process thanks to a nice
shiny government visa, because otherwise I would *ot* come to the US
again as I object to being fingerprinted without even being accused of
a crime...or indeed of a crime even haivng been committed I could be
accused of.

---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - drink faster

"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
...


Please note that fingerprinting is not nearly as common in, for example,
the
UK, as in the USA.
Here, you have to be suspected of a crime to be foingerprinted, and if you
are innocent, those prints are destroyed.

I'm afraid the writing is on the wall for the UK

Already the police can take and retain DNA samples if they arrest you; these
samples are retained even if you're not subsequently charged with a crime.

Fingerprinting will probably come in with ID cards. I'd be very surprised if
the cards are not made compulsory as the police are bleating for this.

Brgds,

--
Peter X-Files Fan
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