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#1
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With The World Environment Day Conference.....
Count on all American, European, and other major cities around the
world going car-free. |
#2
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"Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Count on all American, European, and other major cities around the world going car-free. Since transit is environmentally hostile (from induce traffic congestion caused by diverting funds) and the car is far more environmentally friendly, you just want to do as much damage as possible to the World? |
#3
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On 6/4/2005 10:07 AM Jack May spake thus:
"Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Count on all American, European, and other major cities around the world going car-free. Since transit is environmentally hostile (from induce traffic congestion caused by diverting funds) and the car is far more environmentally friendly, [...] Only in a topsy-turvy Reagan/Bush world where war=peace, ketchup=vegetable, and trees cause pollution. -- When someone claims that the Government is monitoring their thoughts, we call them paranoid or crazy. I prefer to think of such people as just slightly ahead of their time. |
#4
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"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message news:1117905837.a4c5047dd67088fcee36e629def10cfe@t eranews... On 6/4/2005 10:07 AM Jack May spake thus: "Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Only in a topsy-turvy Reagan/Bush world where war=peace, ketchup=vegetable, and trees cause pollution. It is economic, not politics. Just to make it easy for you, let us assume that trains take no energy to run and produce no pollution, but it takes money to buy and run a train. There is only a limited amount of available for transit and a limited amount of taxes that people will support for funding transportation. If you think there is unlimited money, I would like to hear the reason. Rail cost about a million dollars to get one person out of their car and 10K to 20K to support the running of the rail for that new rider. For example BART to San Jose is expected by VTA to attract 5.7K new riders. It is probably a lot less than that. Present estimates for BART to San Jose is 4B. Every body knows that overruns will push it at least into the 5 to 6B range and probably more. That is about a million dollars per new rider and a lot of those new riders will not just come out of cars because they counts some transfers from other transit as new riders. The operating cost of new rider is $32 per trip times two trips per day (low figure) for 5 days per week or over $16K per year. Even as bad as BART to San Jose is, I have calculated similar numbers for other systems over the last several years. That money could have been used instead to reduce congestion by building infrastructure to remove all stop lights on all expressway in Santa Clara County ($2.5B), have accidents and stalls moved from the freeways in less than 6 minutes as in Houston & Seattle, or put in ramp metering on all ramps. Everyone of those approaches would reduce congestion hundreds to thousands of times more than BART to San Jose for a lot less money per added capacity per person. So for each person you get out of a car with transit is going to produce far more congestion than spending the money directly on reducing congestion by putting the money into roads. The net result is that there will be far more pollution, fuel consumption, and CO2 produced by spending money on just getting people out of their car. Even though our example pollution free, fuel free train produces far more pollution and fuel consumption indirectly by increased road congestion caused by the money diverted to transit. That make rail a environmental disaster. BTW, this is not my theory alone. The EPA now concedes in court over and over again that not spending money on roads increases congestion which increases pollution. There is apparently no way to divert transportation funds to transit to get people out of their cars without significantly increasing pollution. The exception is if there is no congestion on the roads which is certainly not the case now. Of course this requires rail advocates to keep more than one thought at a time in their head (mainly about steel wheels) which makes it very difficult for them to understand. |
#5
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Well, read the articles on this topic in the San Francisco Chronicle
and you'll have a very good idea of what the future will be. No cars, a great environment. David Suzuki said so himself. "Jack May" wrote in message news "David Nebenzahl" wrote in message news:1117905837.a4c5047dd67088fcee36e629def10cfe@t eranews... On 6/4/2005 10:07 AM Jack May spake thus: "Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Only in a topsy-turvy Reagan/Bush world where war=peace, ketchup=vegetable, and trees cause pollution. It is economic, not politics. Just to make it easy for you, let us assume that trains take no energy to run and produce no pollution, but it takes money to buy and run a train. There is only a limited amount of available for transit and a limited amount of taxes that people will support for funding transportation. If you think there is unlimited money, I would like to hear the reason. Rail cost about a million dollars to get one person out of their car and 10K to 20K to support the running of the rail for that new rider. For example BART to San Jose is expected by VTA to attract 5.7K new riders. It is probably a lot less than that. Present estimates for BART to San Jose is 4B. Every body knows that overruns will push it at least into the 5 to 6B range and probably more. That is about a million dollars per new rider and a lot of those new riders will not just come out of cars because they counts some transfers from other transit as new riders. The operating cost of new rider is $32 per trip times two trips per day (low figure) for 5 days per week or over $16K per year. Even as bad as BART to San Jose is, I have calculated similar numbers for other systems over the last several years. That money could have been used instead to reduce congestion by building infrastructure to remove all stop lights on all expressway in Santa Clara County ($2.5B), have accidents and stalls moved from the freeways in less than 6 minutes as in Houston & Seattle, or put in ramp metering on all ramps. Everyone of those approaches would reduce congestion hundreds to thousands of times more than BART to San Jose for a lot less money per added capacity per person. So for each person you get out of a car with transit is going to produce far more congestion than spending the money directly on reducing congestion by putting the money into roads. The net result is that there will be far more pollution, fuel consumption, and CO2 produced by spending money on just getting people out of their car. Even though our example pollution free, fuel free train produces far more pollution and fuel consumption indirectly by increased road congestion caused by the money diverted to transit. That make rail a environmental disaster. BTW, this is not my theory alone. The EPA now concedes in court over and over again that not spending money on roads increases congestion which increases pollution. There is apparently no way to divert transportation funds to transit to get people out of their cars without significantly increasing pollution. The exception is if there is no congestion on the roads which is certainly not the case now. Of course this requires rail advocates to keep more than one thought at a time in their head (mainly about steel wheels) which makes it very difficult for them to understand. |
#6
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"Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Well, read the articles on this topic in the San Francisco Chronicle and you'll have a very good idea of what the future will be. No cars, a great environment. David Suzuki said so himself. Dear Mr. Jolley: Please don't add my name to your ignorant discussions. You are living in a fantasy land. I won't give up my Porsche for your lame cause. Sincerely, DS |
#7
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Mr. Suzuki,
Then why do you have the David Suzuki Foundation, the cause of "Sustainability Within A Generation", and the other environmental projects you're pursuing? I happen to like your work. Just so you know, not all Americans are anti-environment. "David Suzuki" wrote in message m... "Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Well, read the articles on this topic in the San Francisco Chronicle and you'll have a very good idea of what the future will be. No cars, a great environment. David Suzuki said so himself. Dear Mr. Jolley: Please don't add my name to your ignorant discussions. You are living in a fantasy land. I won't give up my Porsche for your lame cause. Sincerely, DS |
#8
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All our housing will be in domes just like it is for the students on
the UC-Davis campus. "Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Mr. Suzuki, Then why do you have the David Suzuki Foundation, the cause of "Sustainability Within A Generation", and the other environmental projects you're pursuing? I happen to like your work. Just so you know, not all Americans are anti-environment. "David Suzuki" wrote in message m... "Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Well, read the articles on this topic in the San Francisco Chronicle and you'll have a very good idea of what the future will be. No cars, a great environment. David Suzuki said so himself. Dear Mr. Jolley: Please don't add my name to your ignorant discussions. You are living in a fantasy land. I won't give up my Porsche for your lame cause. Sincerely, DS |
#9
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In article , "Joey Jolley" wrote:
All our housing will be in domes just like it is for the students on the UC-Davis campus. And no showers and bongo drums by each bed for a drum circle before sunset? "Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Mr. Suzuki, Then why do you have the David Suzuki Foundation, the cause of "Sustainability Within A Generation", and the other environmental projects you're pursuing? I happen to like your work. Just so you know, not all Americans are anti-environment. "David Suzuki" wrote in message m... "Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Well, read the articles on this topic in the San Francisco Chronicle and you'll have a very good idea of what the future will be. No cars, a great environment. David Suzuki said so himself. Dear Mr. Jolley: Please don't add my name to your ignorant discussions. You are living in a fantasy land. I won't give up my Porsche for your lame cause. Sincerely, DS |
#10
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"Joey Jolley" wrote in message ... Mr. Suzuki, Then why do you have the David Suzuki Foundation, the cause of "Sustainability Within A Generation", and the other environmental projects you're pursuing? I happen to like your work. Just so you know, not all Americans are anti-environment. Because I make MONEY on it. I want to buy this cool Corvette. |
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