Electric outlets at campgrounds

Jud Hardcastle wrote:

In article ,
says...

Jud Hardcastle wrote:


In article ,
says...


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...09/ai_n9295286



One of the guides says that:



There is also a 50-amp adapter that connects to a 30-amp outlet and
a 20-amp outlet to provide more amperage than would the comparable
50- to 30-amp plug adapter.
If you use an adapter with one 20-amp 120-volt leg and one 30-amp
120-volt leg, you have a total of 50 amps of power to use.
When using this style of adapter, you have 20 amps available
for one leg of your 50-amp panel and 30 amps available on the
other leg of your 50-amp panel.


This is assuming seperate circuits were run to the post. Some of the
older campgrounds may have only run one circuit and chained the 20-amp
outlet off the 30 assuming an RV would use one or the other but never
both. If the wire was sized for only 30 max loading both outlets would
either overload the wire or trip a remote 30-amp circuit breaker
assuming there was one. Has anyone ever encountered that? How would you
test for that other than waiting for the remote breaker to blow or
taking the post apart?

Check for 220 between the two hots.



That wouldn't detect it. It wouldn't BE 220 if one 30-amp 110vt circuit
was run to the post and fed to BOTH the 30 and 15/20 amp outlets with
the assumption that a single camper would never use both. Most campers
needing 15/20 would not be expected to be carrying an adapter--many
were/are tent campers--and the dual outlets may have been for their
convenience. I'm not saying it was/is done--just that it's possible
there is only 30-amp capacity at such a post.

Code wise I found this paraphrase: "If not a dedicated circuit (two or
more outlets) then the receptacle rating must conform to the Table -
which says that the outlet must be the same as the branch circuit
rating, except 20 amp circuits may have receptacles rated 15 or 20 and
40 amp circuits may have receptacles rated 40 or 50." So I guess an
electrician wouldn't piggyback a 15/20 with a 30 on the same circuit but
it certainly is physically possible.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA
Not only physically possible but that is the cheap way some of them do
it. You check between the two hots! if it shows no voltage, you are on
the same branch circuit, if you show 220 you have both branch circuits
at your disposal. My original statement remains the same!
"Check for 220 between the two hots."
--
Bill P.
just
Dog
&
ME

At this time in life all that
remains is left overs, some can
be cherished as good others bad,
but the only definite is that they
are all that remains, main course is
over.

Did you say that the new air conditioning unit require more power? More
than a 20 amp line can provide? 30 amp? They require 50 amps? They
require 240 volts? What make? What model? I've not found specifications
for such beasts on the Internet.

I can envision a 50 foot monster bus having special needs but didn't realize
the Winnies and Fleetwoods might be moving that way. Assuming the voltage
stayed where it should, 20 amps was always enough to run an air conditioner,
"big" or little. I didn't know that a 50 ampere connection was required.
Of course, if you're arc welding while camping I can understand your needs
but that seems rather rare. I've only saw a fellow welding once and that
was from his welding alternator on his Jeep.

Steve

50A is 240v. There is no 120V/50A. Most large sized RV's are 240V/50A
mostly to handle the larger A/C unit.

"Steve Wolf" wrote in message

Did you say that the new air conditioning unit require more power? More
than a 20 amp line can provide? 30 amp? They require 50 amps? They
require 240 volts? What make? What model? I've not found
specifications for such beasts on the Internet.

I can envision a 50 foot monster bus having special needs but didn't
realize the Winnies and Fleetwoods might be moving that way. Assuming the
voltage stayed where it should, 20 amps was always
enough to run an air conditioner, "big" or little. I didn't know
that a 50 ampere connection was required. Of course, if you're arc
welding while camping I can understand your needs but that seems
rather rare. I've only saw a fellow welding once and that was from
his welding alternator on his Jeep.
Steve

My guess is he's repeating things he's been told. by people that have less
than full working knowledge of RV, and electrical systems.

BTW, a couple of days ago a guy told me that Winnebago was discontinuing 30
amp service in all its motorhomes. Starting, I think he said, with the 2007
models, all would be 50 amp.

--
"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed
by the things you did not do, than the ones you did. So
throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor
and catch tradewinds in your sail."
Mark Twain
http://www.bobhatch.com
http://www.tdsrvresort.com

Steve Wolf wrote:

Did you say that the new air conditioning unit require more power? More
than a 20 amp line can provide? 30 amp? They require 50 amps? They
require 240 volts? What make? What model? I've not found specifications
for such beasts on the Internet.

I can envision a 50 foot monster bus having special needs but didn't realize
the Winnies and Fleetwoods might be moving that way. Assuming the voltage
stayed where it should, 20 amps was always enough to run an air conditioner,
"big" or little. I didn't know that a 50 ampere connection was required.
Of course, if you're arc welding while camping I can understand your needs
but that seems rather rare. I've only saw a fellow welding once and that
was from his welding alternator on his Jeep.

Steve


50A is 240v. There is no 120V/50A. Most large sized RV's are 240V/50A
mostly to handle the larger A/C unit.



Go read up on all three systems here , 12VDC, 30amp & 50amp.
http://users3.ev1.net/~crossstitch/RVWiring/wiring.html

--
Bill P.
just
Dog
&
ME

At this time in life all that
remains is left overs, some can
be cherished as good others bad,
but the only definite is that they
are all that remains, main course is
over.

In article ,
says...

This is assuming seperate circuits were run to the post. Some of the
older campgrounds may have only run one circuit and chained the 20-amp
outlet off the 30 assuming an RV would use one or the other but never
both. If the wire was sized for only 30 max loading both outlets would
either overload the wire or trip a remote 30-amp circuit breaker
assuming there was one. Has anyone ever encountered that? How would you
test for that other than waiting for the remote breaker to blow or
taking the post apart?

Check for 220 between the two hots.

That wouldn't detect it. It wouldn't BE 220 if one 30-amp 110vt circuit
was run to the post and fed to BOTH the 30 and 15/20 amp outlets with
the assumption that a single camper would never use both. Most campers

Not only physically possible but that is the cheap way some of them do
it. You check between the two hots! if it shows no voltage, you are on
the same branch circuit, if you show 220 you have both branch circuits
at your disposal. My original statement remains the same!
"Check for 220 between the two hots."

Oh, I see what you mean, I think. If you get 220 across the hots then
there IS clearly two circuits, one on each leg, and it's safe to use
each outlet's max rating. But if you don't get 220 then you're clearly
on the same leg but you still wouldn't know if it's one circuit split at
the post or back at the distribution source with two circuits running to
the post. In which case, to be on the safe side, you probably should
assume the combined load of both the 30-amp and 15/20-amp outlets is 30
amps.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

"Jud Hardcastle" wrote in message
bal.net...
In article ,
says...

This is assuming seperate circuits were run to the post. Some of the
older campgrounds may have only run one circuit and chained the 20-amp
outlet off the 30 assuming an RV would use one or the other but never
both. If the wire was sized for only 30 max loading both outlets would
either overload the wire or trip a remote 30-amp circuit breaker
assuming there was one. Has anyone ever encountered that? How would
you
test for that other than waiting for the remote breaker to blow or
taking the post apart?

Check for 220 between the two hots.

That wouldn't detect it. It wouldn't BE 220 if one 30-amp 110vt circuit
was run to the post and fed to BOTH the 30 and 15/20 amp outlets with
the assumption that a single camper would never use both. Most campers

Not only physically possible but that is the cheap way some of them do
it. You check between the two hots! if it shows no voltage, you are on
the same branch circuit, if you show 220 you have both branch circuits
at your disposal. My original statement remains the same!
"Check for 220 between the two hots."

Oh, I see what you mean, I think. If you get 220 across the hots then
there IS clearly two circuits, one on each leg, and it's safe to use
each outlet's max rating. But if you don't get 220 then you're clearly
on the same leg but you still wouldn't know if it's one circuit split at
the post or back at the distribution source with two circuits running to
the post. In which case, to be on the safe side, you probably should
assume the combined load of both the 30-amp and 15/20-amp outlets is 30
amps.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

Jud,

Try measuring across the hot leads at a standard 120V wall socket and see
what you get. g

The 240V single-phase delivered through the 50A 4-pole connector CAN be run
as a single 120V 100A circuit to the "pole" so long as the appropriate
circuit breakers are installed there.

1. Connect the lead to a buss equipped with the following circuit breakers
installed
Twinned 50A
Single 30A
Single 20A
Single 15A
2. Connect appropriate sockets

FWIW, I've often been able to run everything - if not all at the same time -
when plugged into a single 15A 120V circuit over a "heavy duty" [so the mfg
calls it G] extension cord by using the following adapters in series:

15A 30A, 30A 50A

"RAM³" wrote (in part):

The 240V single-phase delivered through the 50A 4-pole connector CAN be
run as a single 120V 100A circuit to the "pole" so long as the appropriate
circuit breakers are installed there.


If a "240 Volt, 50-Amp" connection is used with two 120 Volt circuits in
phase (that is, 120 Volts from each circuit to the neutral, but zero volts
between the two circuits) then the neutral will be overloaded. The neutral
is *not* designed to carry 100 Amps of current.

--
D.J., N8DO; FMCA 147762
dj[underscore]osborn at yahoo dot com

Jud Hardcastle wrote:

In article ,
says...

This is assuming seperate circuits were run to the post. Some of the
older campgrounds may have only run one circuit and chained the 20-amp
outlet off the 30 assuming an RV would use one or the other but never
both. If the wire was sized for only 30 max loading both outlets would
either overload the wire or trip a remote 30-amp circuit breaker
assuming there was one. Has anyone ever encountered that? How would you
test for that other than waiting for the remote breaker to blow or
taking the post apart?

Check for 220 between the two hots.


That wouldn't detect it. It wouldn't BE 220 if one 30-amp 110vt circuit
was run to the post and fed to BOTH the 30 and 15/20 amp outlets with
the assumption that a single camper would never use both. Most campers

Not only physically possible but that is the cheap way some of them do
it. You check between the two hots! if it shows no voltage, you are on
the same branch circuit, if you show 220 you have both branch circuits
at your disposal. My original statement remains the same!
"Check for 220 between the two hots."


Oh, I see what you mean, I think. If you get 220 across the hots then
there IS clearly two circuits, one on each leg, and it's safe to use
each outlet's max rating. But if you don't get 220 then you're clearly
on the same leg but you still wouldn't know if it's one circuit split at
the post or back at the distribution source with two circuits running to
the post. In which case, to be on the safe side, you probably should
assume the combined load of both the 30-amp and 15/20-amp outlets is 30
amps.
Just go read this. Go read up on all three systems here , 12VDC, 30amp &
50amp.
http://users3.ev1.net/~crossstitch/RVWiring/wiring.html



--
Bill P.
just
Dog
&
ME

At this time in life all that
remains is left overs, some can
be cherished as good others bad,
but the only definite is that they
are all that remains, main course is
over.

That setup seems very lopsided, to have everything BUT the rear AC on the
same leg! We ran into an overload problem in the cold running 2 1500 watt
heaters hooked up to a 50A service...one of the circuit breakers on the
inverter would trip occasionally. It would be nice to steal some of that
minimally used second leg juice for some recepticles...how easy is it to do
that to prevent heater overload????
"Haywagon" wrote in message
news:naJEf.4082$7d.683@trnddc05...
14-50R is the proper 50 amp receptacle for a campground and it, in fact,
has 240 vac connected to it. The difference is that within most large
coachs they wire two separate 120 vac circuits, one to each side, off of
it. http://users3.ev1.net/~crossstitch/RVWiring/wiring.html
provides a complete explaination.

"Larry Cohen" wrote in message
...
That setup seems very lopsided, to have everything BUT the rear AC
on the same leg! We ran into an overload problem in the cold
running 2 1500 watt heaters hooked up to a 50A service...one of the
circuit breakers on the inverter would trip occasionally. It would
be nice to steal some of that minimally used second leg juice for
some recepticles...how easy is it to do that to prevent heater
overload????

IMHO, when working on 220 volt service, if you have to ask, you need
to pay someone that knows what they are doing to add a separate outlet
for 1 of the heaters. Not saying you can't do it yourself, but that
you can KILL YOURSELF.

Tom J