A few questions about laws in the US

sechumlib wrote:
george wrote:

The rule in most states (all states?) would be to keep right except
when passing. Passing on the right is probably forbidden but mainly
frowned upon.

I'm not sure what "probably forbidden but mainly frowned upon" means. In
NY and OH, however, the two states in which I've lived most recently,
passing on the right on a freeway is permitted by law; neither forbidden
nor frowned upon.

There may have been more recent changes in traffic laws that I'm not
aware of not living in the US for a long time, but I believe that it
would be illegal to pass on the right in any circumstances not too many
years ago in most or all states. (At least in the three states where
I've had licenses- IL, CA and TX.) Therefore it was legally forbidden,
but not usually enforced, but "frowned upon" because it can be
dangerous, but was enforced only if desired. Because millions of
people do something wrong every day does not make it right but you
can't arrest everyone, therefore probably the changes in the laws of NY
and OH. Also, as traffic increased, it probably became inpossible to
observe the law on crowded multilane freeways, especially in stop and
go traffic.

George

On 16 Mar 2006 07:17:49 -0800, wrote:

So do you just overtake in whatever lane you can?

On multi-lane highways, the lane closest to the center line (the left
lane) is supposed to be used for passing. You are not supposed to pass
on the right, but people do it sometimes anyway.

There is a big difference between "not supposed to" and "it's
illegal".


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

what is Loitering?

Hanging around a location with no valid purpose. Sightseeing is a
valid purpose. Loitering laws are used to prevent drug sales and
other socially unacceptable activities. Loitering is subjective.


The sign is usually posted when the community already knows there is a
problem, such as kids hanging out drinking or selling drugs, and it gives
police a valid reason to make them move on. If you stop there to see a view,
or sit on a bench and read, they'll leave you alone.

wrote:
Hi,

Since my recent trip to the US, I have a few questions about laws.

On the highway, in Europe you have to stay in the "slow" lane, ie.
furthest from the central reservation, right in the US, unless you are
overtaking someone. In the US this is not the case. So do you just
overtake in whatever lane you can? Can you swop lanes as much as you
like to get through the traffic? How much room do you require to change
lanes? I was doing it with 2 car lengths space, and my brother who
lives there said I would get pulled if a cop saw me.

Slow traffic should move to the right lane, but it's rarely enforced.


I saw lots of signs saying "No Trespassing, no Loitering", such as on
the most popular cycle route in the San Fransisco Peninsula, I cannot
remember the name but it is around a reservoir and is just off the 280
near san bruno. Now I can guess what trespassing is, but what is
Loitering? This sign was next to benches, and I assumed the view was
what most people came for, so what is loitering? Is standing still
looking at the view counted? Or is it, as my brother suspected,
dependent on how much money you have and your ethnic origin.


Loitering law is enforced against the homeless population. In other
words if you are a tourist type you are not loitering, but if you are a
bunch of teenagers hanging around smoking then you are loitering.


At a station I went to (Santa Cruz, Great American?) another
prohibition was added to the sign, pan handling. Now I have absolutely
no idea what this could be.


Begging for money.

Another thing I could not quite get my head round is the 4 way stops.
Are you really supposed to stop every time even when there is nothing
coming? What about, as I found a few times, when the stop line is so
far back from the junction that you cannot see if it is clear from the
line. Are you supposed to stop at the line, then move forward and
look, or do you just have to stop at some point before the other road?
This is more relevant at a 2 way stop.


Yes you are supposed to stop everytime even though no one else is at
the cross section. Many people employ the (California) rolling stop.
E.g. slow down enough to simulate a stop and then on their way.


Thanks for any clarification you can give me.

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:12:08 -0500, jdoe wrote:

theoretically the law in the US is the same as in Europe, but in
practice it just doesn't happen, in the US some clod seems to believe
that he deserves to be in the "fast" lane. Lane discipline is not
what's happening on many US roads.
Erratic lane changes will get you pulled over.

Actually no. Almost all tickets currently given out in the U.S. are
for preplanned staged traps. The cop sets up to see a particular
violation and writes only tickets for that violation. The only exception
are DUI -- cops are always looking out to give DUIs.


I've seen people run red lights right in front of a cop and not
get a ticket.
I've seen people run a cop into another lane and not get a ticket.
Cops sure as hell don't write tickets for people making erratic lane
changes unless they appear drunk.

AZ Nomad wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:12:08 -0500, jdoe wrote:

theoretically the law in the US is the same as in Europe, but in
practice it just doesn't happen, in the US some clod seems to believe
that he deserves to be in the "fast" lane. Lane discipline is not
what's happening on many US roads.
Erratic lane changes will get you pulled over.

Actually no. Almost all tickets currently given out in the U.S. are
for preplanned staged traps. The cop sets up to see a particular
violation and writes only tickets for that violation. The only exception
are DUI -- cops are always looking out to give DUIs.


Not counting parking tickets.


I've seen people run red lights right in front of a cop and not
get a ticket.
I've seen people run a cop into another lane and not get a ticket.
Cops sure as hell don't write tickets for people making erratic lane
changes unless they appear drunk.

That's what a stop sign is ... a way to slow down traffic.

Actually I believe that federal traffic-sign guidelines say that stop
signs should NOT be installed just to slow down traffic. Our local
police chief talked about this recently when some residents wanted a
4-way stop sign installed to slow down traffic. He said that it would
be contrary to federal guidelines. If you need to slow down traffic,
the proper method is to post and enforce a lower speed limit.

Stop signs aren't very effective for that purpose because 1) drivers
may stop at the sign but continue to drive as before on the rest of the
street, and 2) the stop sign disrupts the flow of traffic.

Jim

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:33:18 -0600, Doug McDonald
wrote:

wrote:
Hi,

Since my recent trip to the US, I have a few questions about laws.

On the highway, in Europe you have to stay in the "slow" lane, ie.
furthest from the central reservation, right in the US, unless you are
overtaking someone. In the US this is not the case.

It used to be illegal in most states to pass on the right.

No it wasn't. Not on multi-lane highways. But it still is illegal
to pass on the right when there's only one lane each way.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:05 GMT, sechumlib
wrote:

Doug McDonald wrote:

Yes of course. That's what a stop sign is ... a way to slow down traffic.

Not true in NY, by statute. A stop sign is to STOP traffic at an
intersection. Theoretically, using it to slow traffic is illegal.

Which doesn't mean no one does it. My town of Niskayuna, for example,
routinely puts up stop signs in absurd places as a sop to local
residents who think traffic is going too fast by their precious houses
and children. They apparently don't believe in training their children
to use care in the street.

Not using care in the street is not supposed to be a capital
crime.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:05 GMT, sechumlib
wrote:

Doug McDonald wrote:

Yes of course. That's what a stop sign is ... a way to slow down traffic.
Not true in NY, by statute. A stop sign is to STOP traffic at an
intersection. Theoretically, using it to slow traffic is illegal.

Which doesn't mean no one does it. My town of Niskayuna, for example,
routinely puts up stop signs in absurd places as a sop to local
residents who think traffic is going too fast by their precious houses
and children. They apparently don't believe in training their children
to use care in the street.



Hatunen is right. Around here the idea is to simply reduce
the average speed of traffic, to make driving more
frustrating and less pleasant, etc. The actual stopping
is incidental to the intent. Any method to make driving
slowe and more frustrating would be usable by the people
doing the promulgating. Another trick is the 25 mph speed
limit on four lane roads with zero traffic. A final one
is stop lights at each corner timed so that you have to stop
and each and every light.

Doug McDonald