NCL Dawn 8/14-8/21 review (not at all short) part 1

Mildly edited version. Just felt like posting it early. Will post later
version to review site.

The Idea

My father (Ben Jr.) doesn't fly. He wanted to further his 4
grandchildren's horizons by taking them on a cruise. Since the NCL Dawn
is based in New York City's Port of New York pier year-round, within
driving distance of his home in Queens, NYC, he chose the Dawn. The
itinerary is New York, sea day, Cape Canaveral, FL, Miami, Fl, Grand
Stirrup Cay, Bahamas, Nassau, Bahamas, sea day, New York. A 7-night
itinerary. He chose the August 14th-21st sailing.

My sister, Virginia (Ginny, Gina) wasn't big on the idea. Her 4
children are 3 teenagers, Ken, 16-years old, Steven, 14-years old and
fraternal twin of Courtney, and 12-year old Ryan. Ginny has never
cruised before and wasn't terribly interested. After some cajoling,
actually arm-twisting and my father bearing the cost of the staterooms,
she agreed to the cruise. Her idea of a vacation is something
land-based, near a beach, uncrowded, quiet, with hand-to-mouth service.
The kids really had no idea of a vacation, they've only been to a nearby
summer beach a few times, and only for the length of an extended
weekend. My sister has been to the Caribbean, all land vacations. So,
let's say she was destination-oriented.

To the pier

Worth mentioning as Ginny lives about a 2-hour drive from the pier. She
booked a "limo" to take her and the kids to the pier. Turns out the limo
was, as she calls it, a "raggedy van", the driver talked incessantly in
multiple languages, drove at high speeds on low-speed roads zigzagging
in and out of traffic, so, needless to say, her trip to the ship was not
relaxing.

Embarkation

Old pier, old facilities, new ship with big passenger capacities
combined with broiling hot weather and you get a not-so-ideal
embarkation process. It took awhile, a few lines (that were not
straight), some advice from fairly friendly port guides, and we were
aboard. Port of New York facilities are poor, in a state of disrepair,
and most ships are now leaving out of Bayonne, New Jersey, and other
nearby ports with hopefully much more modern and efficient facilities.

Stateroom shock

I tried to warn Ginny. I told her that cruise ship staterooms are
nowhere near the size of hotel rooms. The idea was to have Ginny stay in
the room with the four youngest kids, who are not that young and not
small (Courtney is about 5'8" and Steven is near 6'. Ryan is shorter but
hefty and of course my sister is model thin ).
It was an inside, yes we were on a budget, and it was the standard-size
inside cabin, maybe 165 sq. feet, and it was a tight squeeze, to put it
mildly. So, it was decided that Steven would sleep in my father's room,
along with my father and his brother Kenny. It was a tight squeeze for
them as well. Somehow they managed, but if we were to do it again we'd
pick bigger rooms, maybe with a balcony for additional space or private
space.

Acclimation

Ginny was none-to-pleased at what she saw onboard the ship. This is a
"rush-hour" ship, in other words, this is the peak of the travel season.
The ship is 92,000 tons or so and has a double occupancy rate of 2250
pax. No bad space ratio of 40.8. But this ship was almost all-berth
full, and was carrying at least 2700 people. There were at least 30
babies onboard and 30 toddlers, and it seemed to me that 1/3rd of the
ship were 6-17 year olds. Lots of teens, lots of kids, not a lot of
order, lots of noise, ah, cacophonous and chaotic would describe a bunch
of people not knowing the ship, where they are going, what to do, and
with the porters and crew still bringing the luggage onboard, peace of
mind was not to be found. She didn't want to stay in the stateroom due
to its small size and crowded conditions. So, the adults met, Ben Jr.
(kids call him Pop-pop), Gina, and Ben (Ben III officially) and
Claudine, near the Grand Central at rush hour atrium and discussed going
to eat. The kids later joined us.

The dreaded 12th floor

Buffet. Took awhile but we were able to get elevators to the 12th floor.
Utter chaos. Screaming babies, toddling toddlers, annoyed youngin's,
teenin's, and oldin's, but we used the hand sanitizers, stationed in
front of the many eateries onboard and most entrances, and picked out
our choice of not-so-appetizing food on display. The food proved to
taste as bad as it looked, the burgers taste like what leather probably
tastes like, the fries seemed made of something other than potatoes, the
hot-dogs tasted like old turkey dogs, the chicken wasn't bad nor good,
the pizza was a third of the slice one usually gets and was crust plus
tomato and yellow gooey stuff. To drink was ice tea and, well, ice
tea--or water. Ice tea wasn't great. Of course you could pay for soda.
Areas to sit were not to be found. There was a small area with small
seats for children that some adults resorted to sitting in. This was the
worse and most pitiful excuse I've ever seen for a buffet, on land or at
sea, and needs to be totally redone. After this very unsatisfying lunch
I came up with the idea to try the Blue Lagoon, the 24-hour grill/diner
like place. Good idea. Burgers with taste, good wonton soup, decent fish
and chips, so there was something on the menu that we all thought was
edible. At this time it wasn't discovered by many ship guests and there
were actually places to sit with some elbow room. This became our lunch
spot or snack spot for the remainder of the cruise, though I did try the
12th floor lunch twice. Once I got sick after eating a burger that came
from a pile and then was thrown on the grill, the other time I had
decent spaghetti bolognese, but this was a port day, so the area wasn't
that crowded.

Decisions, decisions

In the old days of cruising, we dined in the restaurant, at a set place
at a set time with a set wait staff and set tablemates. But times have
changed, people want freedom, well some people want freedom to choose
their dining place and time, so NCL has accommodated us. It's called
Freestyle, dine where and when you want, and dress the way you
want--almost. In most restaurants jeans, t-shirts, shorts, are not
allowed after 5:00 PM. In practice, sometimes it was allowed, sometimes
not. There are optional dress codes including an optional formal night
with formal pictures and formal settings. But, you decide which one of
the 10 restaurants you want to go to. There are 3 different restaurants
with similar food, Aqua mid-ship fairly large with an all-female staff,
Impressions, medium sized with banquet-style seating in one area, and
Venetian, large stern-located fairly elegant DR. Do you need
reservations? Depends on the time of day, size of party, and other facts
only NCL seems to know. We could never figure it out, or at least this
staff didn't quite know, and there was sometimes confusion in Aqua and
Venetian, sometimes not, sometimes a line with a wait, sometimes not.
There's also the for-pay French restaurant, Le Bistro, the Asian
restaurant Bamboo, the hibachi right behind it, the nearby Sushi bar.
Then there is the reservations-only but no-charge Tex-Mex restaurant
located on the 2nd level of the atrium, a no charge Italian restaurant
that I think is part of the buffet, but I never found it (wasn't really
looking for it). There's Cagney's, the for-pay steakhouse with the
highest charge ($20 vs. $15 for Le Bistro and $12.50 for Bamboo).

So, is this an advantage? Depends on your school of thought. Like
variety of food and spaces and times. It's here. Find it a pain to think
of where to eat and coordinating a time with not so accommodating or
indecisive family members or friends and you may much rather that you go
when it is time to go or eat at some other time. Not so desirable.

But there are other issues, such as building a rapport with service
staff, service staff that have an incentive to go above and beyond the
level required due to a personal tip and hand shake at the end of the
cruise, that are in play. So, there are definite tradeoffs that come
with this freedom to choose. There's also the dress thing, some are
elegant, some are in rags, so if one has a fantasy of being in a
unified, elegant environment, with today's attitudes about dress,
realistically, you'll find a certain mix of dress on most mainstream
cruise lines. On the freestyle ships it is just magnified because there
is no recommended dress code for people to interpret or ignore, just an
optional one that allows those that like to dress for the evening to
dress for the evening. But some dressed every night anyway.

The teen scene

So, Kenny, Steven, and Courtney are teenagers. At home they argue at
times about things. So, does it end on the trip? No. Absolutely, no. But
now they have the freedom to roam about--however dictator Mom, Gina
Smith, says we all must eat together. Does anyone besides Gina want to
eat together for dinner every night? Pop pop. No, sometimes he doesn't
want to go to dinner--takes too long. Ben and Claudine. Childless couple
that sometimes wanted to take just one or two or the teenaged kids to
dinner. NOT ALLOWED.

Teenagers like teen things. Broad generalization that can and does
encompass a lot. So, the ship makes a space and calls it the teen area.
But, there's a big difference between various ages of teens and their
development, social structure, and how they are raised, and natural
personality differences in young humans. On the ship, there are some
teens that want to be in adult areas, there are some teens that want to
"take over" a space. There are some teens that want a secret space, some
nook or cranny in the ship for their small groups. From what I can see,
teens tend to break up into groups. Unfortunately IMO, sometimes it is
the "cool" teens vs. the not so cool ones. But even more unfortunately,
sometimes it is based on ethnicity. So, we had some ethnicities hanging
out with "their kind", a cool kid that was sometimes rowdy kid clique,
small groups of teens basing their friendships on common interests
(Yippee), and hormone-driven kids trying to connect. Unfortunately,
there were some teens that somehow got a hold of beer and, quite
blatantly, especially at night, drank beer openly in public. So, the
staff had to deal with that.

The teen activities did not include three-quarters of the teens. So,
good idea, but too many teens to fit, ages needed to be separated, and
in general, maybe too many teens for this cruise. I loved the fact that
so many teens were aboard the ship and teenagers would have the options
of many to choose from to hang out with and possibly make friends, but
there were so many there were actual conflicts onboard, and while Steven
and Ken would go off and make friends especially at night and come back
to the cabin at late hours, Courtney wanted to hang out with Claudine
and me at night and didn't really seemed that interested in making
friends. Curiously, one night I found her playing a board games with
kids younger than she is (I guess, 8 to 12). She never showed any
interest in playing board games before.

Adults finding our spaces

Gina's space: slowly but surely, my sister found her spaces. After the
2nd night and enjoying the beach she found 2 piano spots. One was in the
atrium with a fellow playing cocktail jazz. The other was in the
secondary atrium, Gatsby's, with a piano-bar entertainer. She mostly
stayed in these 2 areas after dinner and was frequently joined by my
wife Claudine and Ben Jr. During the day she enjoyed the quiet pool area
and spa or the promenade deck area when it wasn't too hot. Her biggest
issue was the lack of quiet space in the pool area. The pool area was
just too noisy for her, and though she likes laying out in the sun, she
envisioned an area where she could just hear the ocean and enjoy the
breeze but on the top of the ship, and this did not bear out. Ginny did
not do production shows, game shows, games and other participatory
things. Not her style.

Claudine's space: Claudine's cruised numerous times, she knows the
cruise format. She isn't big on activities or pool games, likes piano
bars and ballroom dancing venues, likes the occasional show. She likes
to meet staff and converse with them. She loves the wraparound promenade
and the loungers. Not big on the pool area but enjoys a forward lounge
with a view. She wanted to relax and spend time on her own, sometimes
with the family, sometimes with one or more of the kids, sometimes with
her father-in-law, and I think she accomplished that. She treated
herself to the Mandara Spa, a big improvement she thinks over Steiners,
enjoyed knitting in the spa and listening to her iPod. Her night spots
were mostly listening to the pianist in the atrium and Gatsby's, so
there is where she was with Gina, and one night in the sort of hidden
Star Bar, with me, we enjoyed martinis and meeting some fellow cruisers
all from the New York City/New Jersey area.

Ben Jr.'s space: the orchestrator of this trip had the best attitude of
the bunch. The ship's stateroom was clean and cool and he was sharing it
with people he loved, the wait staff were hard-working folks and enjoyed
banter with passengers that respected them, there was plenty to do if
and when he wanted to, the full moon was wondrous, the weather was
wonderful, the sea was beautiful. I heard little in the way of
complaining from him. He enjoyed the promenade deck, taking photos of
various parts of the ship, Spinnaker's lounge and especially the group
that played up there, taking mid-day naps, the piano guy at the atrium,
the piano bar guy in Gatsby's.

My space: Ben III wanders, goes to places on impulse, and tended to not
linger for too long (unlike other cruises where I'd stay for extended
periods of time). During the day I'd nap a little, have cappuccino in
the atrium, find teenagers and joke with them, go to the back of the
ship and watch the children play and interact with their parents, go aft
on the promenade deck and get mesmerized by the ship's wake, sleep in a
lounge chair, occasionally get a bite to eat, occasionally observe an
activity such as bingo, trivia game, etc. Didn't get a chance to use the
pub much, but hung out with my nephews in there from time to time. Got
to spend time with my niece who is sweeter than her social mask would
indicate. At night I'd wander about. I really wanted to get dining out
of the way and go off to Spinnakers to enjoy the atmosphere in my
favorite lounge on the ship, go to the Star bar, talk to crew members in
various spots, observe the teen social dynamic, go to the piano bar and
sit with my wife, sister, and father, watch the duo in Dazzles or, at
least earlier in the cruise, Karaoke in Dazzles.

Shared activity: Adult Karaoke. Gina signed up with Ken and performed
Say A Little Prayer. Ben Jr. and I performed "I've Grown Accustomed to
Your Face". All but Ben Jr. have performed Karaoke before, but not on a
regular basis. My last time was on the Celebrity Constellation, I was
signed up by a group I was sailing with and performed "Just a Gigolo".
That was my first time and this was my second. Gina and Ken went over
well, Ken singing and scat singing a bit in falsetto met with audience
approval. Ben Jr. and Ben were an enigma to the audience; Claudine
described us as mellow and dramatic (Ben Jr.) and melodramatic (Ben
III). The audience first laughed then became somewhat frightened that we
may not be totally sane. For us, we were just being ourselves--hope they
enjoyed at least part of it. Courtney and Steven watched, and Ryan
camcorder taped it. Claudine also observed. I thought it was a ton of
fun. Later, Ryan and Ken performed "I Believe I Can Fly", Ryan hitting
some tough high notes and it went over well. I believe it was Ryan's
first time performing Karaoke.


Dining service and food: As mentioned earlier, at least for the first
few nights we all dined together. We first did Aqua, and had reasonably
polite and prompt service. Impressions, the next night, was not as
successful. Our waiter did not pour wine for my wife, he forget a salad
and a soup, he was quite slow in getting the food and got a few items
wrong. Food portions were small, food mediocre. The waiter didn't
understand Ginny's request for pulled butter. Venetians, problems with
service and one waiter was so exhausted he was visibly sweating and out
of breath. His service was slow but he tried, I don't blame him, he was
obviously overworked.

The family while dining: The kids exchanged insults, especially towards
Ryan. Ben Jr. got worn out after awhile and refused to go to dinner as a
family after the 5th night. Frustrations for all with kids ordering and
changing their minds and it exhausted some of the wait staff. I
personally think it would have been better to dine as small groups of 3
or maybe 4 and 4 and not always as a party of 8.

Blue Lagoon: proved popular. Too popular for the wait staff, there. They
had to deal with teens ordering massive amounts of food and often small
children changing their minds, and no order as too many people would sit
down anywhere and then expect to be served as soon as they were ready.
One waitress was visibly overwhelmed and it affected her attitude.
Mostly, they seem to have a pasted-on smile, sing-song manner, were
exhausted, and had to serve lots of food in a small area that was
extended a bit to the promenade deck. One day the manager of the area
had to call a small meeting to try to get the area to run smoother. It
seem to work a bit as service improved somewhat after the meeting.
Earlier, the waitress most bothered by the situation was publicly
reprimanded by an officer who told her not to argue with pax and to
bring the matter to a supervising officer. Although I agreed with the
officer, I think it would have been more professional to bring her into
a crew area and have the discussion with her. Blue Lagoon had a video
jukebox where teens could pick the songs and yes, they picked the same
songs, over and over.

Bamboo; upgrade in food and service. Service was unrushed and much more
attentive. Food was well prepared and tasty, especially an Indian-style
chicken on a stick with sauce that I ordered. Claudine and I did this on
our own and were pleased with food and service.

Salsa's; mixed review. Claudine loved her food, I found it strange.
Service was excellent, the view out of the dining area/atrium level was
wonderful and we saw a few dolphin.

Cagney's: Claudine and I found it excellent. Made-to-order steak,
hollandaise sauce, baked potatoes, and there was chicken and other meats
if you didn't care for steaks. The family were not in a good state of
relations however and this marred the experience. Gina ordered Ken to go
back to the room and get a tie, he preferred the jacket, no tie look and
Ken had a bad attitude for the rest of the evening. Steven didn't like
Ryan talking about King Kong and filmmaking and told Ryan his
contribution was idiotic. Ken talked about the various crowds in school
and insulted Courtney's crowd which resulted in her crying. One of the
waiters dropped his shrimp cocktail near us so they apologized profusely
and then cleaned it up. Our waitress was sweet, pleasant, professional,
prompt, as was the Maitre 'd of the dining room. My father did not enjoy
his steak, I'm not sure why. Mine was wonderful, Claudine expressed she
enjoyed her, and my sister loved her very well done steak. Only Steven
enjoyed his steak. Ken decided to tell the waitress he did not enjoy his
and when she offered alternatives, Ken declined. I felt sorry for the
waitress who really wanted everyone to enjoy their meals. Ryan looked
visibly miserable, my father did as well, and Courtney was puffy-eyed.
This isn't what I wanted for our last dinner at the ship's flagship
restaurant.


Tween Ryan

12-years old. Baby of the family. Pretty much dismissed by his sister
and brother and defended by his mother, he is pretty awkward socially.
Seemed to spend most of his time at the arcade. Sometimes he'd call our
room and say he was bored but had no idea of what he wanted to do. We
tried to get him to go with us on a shore excursion but he declined.
Dinners were sometimes tense because Ryan would be yelled at by one of
his older siblings, he would try to defend himself but it is 3 against
one, his mother was constantly telling him not to play with the food,
utensils, etc., so I just felt he had a big struggle to find his place.
I tried to assure him that one day he'll be big and the other kids would
start to respect him but I'm not sure he understands yet. He was the
hardest to read and expressed little, so I hope he enjoyed his cruise
when away from his siblings and enjoyed the excursions.

Feedback: not much specific. Overall said he enjoyed the cruise.
Couldn't voice why. Enjoyed Universal Studios in Cape Canaveral. Enjoyed
parasailing on the private island. He thinks he wants to cruise again
but doesn't know why.

Courtney

A sour-looking but cute turning pretty face. Developing into a women's
figure. Dressed in fairly tight clothes that were reasonably stylish.
She's always had a good relationship with me. Normal mom/daughter
love/hate competitive relationship. Wishes she had sisters. Courtney
spent much of her time asking what Claudine and I were doing and wanting
to spend time with us. I didn't see her socialize but kids would come by
and say Hi Courtney, so at some point she must have socialized. Has
normal crushes on movie stars and pop singers.

Feedback: enjoyed video wall, Blue lagoon, thought spa was OK but
boring, thought the magician was OK but talked too much, liked going to
the cinema to watch movies, enjoyed the free popcorn, disliked the
buffet with a passion, didn't like going to dinner with the family,
thought Karaoke was fun a first but got sick of the same kids
monopolizing the area and performing, enjoyed the woman who sang in
Dazzles the first 2 nights, liked people-watching and gave running
commentary, didn't love the service in the Blue lagoon. She says she
wants to cruise again and it was enjoyable even though the cruise
director was terrible, most kids were annoying, she wasn't interested in
making friends, did not dance, and really wanted to be older that she
could enjoy the cocktails (I let her sip some of mine).

Steven: Courtney's twin brothers. Thinnish, tall kid, on the break of
getting facial hair. Low voice. Wants to be an individual. Likes
Japanese rock and what he calls unusual music. Likes video games and has
interest in filmmaking. Night person, sleeps long and gets up midday.
Has gallows humor, loves mentioning death and destruction. Steven and
Ken get along well and hang out with each other.

Feedback: this one is tough, he doesn't elaborate much. Liked Blue
lagoon, enjoyed the gym and playing basketball, roaming around the ship
and being impulsive, relaxing, playing shuffleboard (although not
necessarily following the rules), the video arcade, some of the shows,
watching movies, going to the pool and looking at bikini-clad women, and
hung out with Ken at the pub from time to time (seems there were girls
there they would meet). So, Steven was socializing and found a small
group of friends to hang out with and usually came back to the cabin
between 2 and 3 AM. Disliked the length of dinner, breakfast, the
buffet, undefined shore excursions (laying down at the beach or
sightseeing). Is undecided about cruising but is not against it.

Ken: wants to be an adult. Has strong opinions on the social interaction
of people he knows, adults on the ship, kids on the ship. Thinks he
knows what he likes and dislikes and why. Wants to be able to drink
adult drinks.

Likes: basketball court but net on top altered the arc on his shot, gym,
roaming around the ship, making friends with others onboard, people
watching, listening to musicians, meeting girls onboard, movies onboard,
chance to play board games with others, arcade, show lounge
entertainment somewhat.

Dislikes: buffet with a passion, some of the teen cliques, service
gaffes (pointed out some of them), found cruise somewhat monotonous.

I have an overall feeling, which may or not be accurate, that there were
certain intangibles that made both Ryan and Courtney enjoy the cruise
experience. However, I think with Steven and Kenny, it was more that
they were in a social setting, and it didn't much matter that it was a
cruise ship. It could have been a resort or different format. There were
people to meet and these two met them. Yet, with Ryan and Courtney,
something else unsaid, and possibly unknown to them, made the cruise
appealing and for them to want to repeat.


Adult feedback: Ginny. Dislikes include cabin space inadequate for four
people, language barrier with some of the crew, drinks expensive,
overselling of products, crowded conditions, concern for the work staff
and how some of them seemed overworked and perhaps underpaid, could not
find quiet deck space, spotty food and dining service, confusion around
restaurant reservations, loud announcements by cruise director. Likes
include some very pleasant crew members, enjoyed piano bar, spa was
heavenly, enjoyed loungers in back of spa overlooking the ship's wake,
promenade deck especially the back to view wake, the Gatsby area that
used Biedermeier wood, shore excursion personnel.

Though cruise is nice enough once she got used to the ship prefers land
vacations. If she were to cruise again it would not be anytime soon and
on a line that features quiet spaces and is very service oriented. My
recommendations would be HAL/Celebrity and above, but perhaps Cunard
would suit her reasonably well. It would be port-intensive with few sea
days if any and lots of opportunities to lay down at the beach. Cruising
by the water is nice, but the format seems too commercial and the
clientele too casual for her liking (from this particular sampling).

Ben Jr: Dislikes: not many voiced, most serious is length of dining
time. Another dislike I picked up is exhibited by some pax that think
they should be rude to staff members because they can and also people
piling their plates up with food because it was there. Likes: promenade
deck, easy going staff that was fun to banter with; some fun flirtation
with female bar servers; piano player in the atrium; group in
Spinnaker's Lounge (Modal Magic).

Totally different cruise than the HAL Rotterdam he took me on in 1970.
That ship was considered big in its day but also great. The Dawn is a
commodity ship, nice enough, but a ship to go for a certain time,
perhaps be refurbished, and then sold off. The Rotterdam had exquisite
detailing and plenty of memorable public spaces. This ship does not. The
service was Dutch, the cuisine marvelous, the ambiance mostly genteel.
Here, it is much more informal, but this is a different time, and while
he is OK with it, that cruise and time is much more profound an
experience than this one.


Claudine: Dislikes: lack of getting to know crew members and building
rapport with them, especially wait staff. Felt for the first time no
crew member stood out as outstanding and no real rapport was made with
any of them. Doesn't feel well suited to freestyle, too much confusion
around which restaurants required reservations and when, felt buffet was
horrendous, thought overall food was fair except for specialty
restaurants, disliked the crowds and thought too many youngsters and
teens, too many loud announcements, high prices in shops, horrendous ice
cream, placement of bathroom to mirror in stateroom--they are opposite
each other [this is not the case in all rooms, in many other staterooms
the door is at the end of the room and the bathroom is opposite closets
and the mirror is closer to the bed] . Enjoyed layout of ship, many
nooks and crannies and variety of bars and eclectic nature of interior
design, murals around the promenade and walkaround promenade, ship
maintenance, learning a lot about shipboard entertainment and different
lines from the atrium's piano player, showroom entertainment, Blue
lagoon meals, spa area and treatments.

Claudine rates NCL 1 notch below RCI in activities, service, and crew
performance. Her one experience with RCI was on a new-at-the-time
Voyager class ship, the Explorer of the Seas. She prefers the "old"
format and found that ship much more fun and involving. She has little
interest in sailing NCL in the future.

My cruise opinions: Dislikes: most of those mentioned above plus
something that bothers me most about our commodity society: lack of
creativity and imagination in the format. I heard "Murder she wrote"
"Hot, Hot, Hot" and "Ooh baby I love your ways" far too many times. As a
kid who grew up listening to calypso there is so much more that could be
played by bands and as canned music. On a ship sometimes it is hard to
tell what ship or line you are on. What ship doesn't have a 50s sock hop
and 70s and 80s revival? What ship doesn't have a not-so-newlywed game?
Scavenger Hunt? Art auction? Imaginative activities that distinguish one
cruise line from another are few and far between While the Dawn's
showroom production shows were well done, the Jean Ryan company strikes
me as arguably the best at sea, why more revue type, Cirque type shows?
There's something too pat and formulaic and IMO lazy about the whole
cruise thing, as there is outside of cruising. I think certain staples
should be present, and while I'm not saying get rid of the above, can we
start to focus on new ideas versus new ships with more features? There
are some of us that need something more distinctive and signature.

I don't like 90,000 ton ships and I don't see a huge improvement over
ships of the mid 1990s. Yes, they have more balconies, and some of them
have more eateries. But then what? Compared to the Dawn, the Galaxy,
built in 1996 has a similar nice spa pool, many bars and social venues,
similar sized venues at that, decent sized children's facility and
dedicated teen center, and feels almost about the same size, but more
efficient at 78,000 tons. The 90,000 ton ship, IMO, is tiring to
navigate. It is a bit longer than the 75,000 tonner, and maybe one deck
higher, with that one deck having more cabins for the most part. I guess
NCL can say that they need the size for all of their restaurants, but
they could have fewer and smaller and still have freestyle. I see no
need for three restaurants that all serve pretty much the same food.
Other 90,000 ton ships don't strike me as a big improvement so I'm down
on the ever-growing size of cruise ships. It's time to go another way
and make ships more distinctive and smaller for the numerous people that
I've met on cruise ships and elsewhere that would enjoy a, say, 60,000
ton ship. The advantages to smaller is really friendlier, more chance to
meet with pax, much less walking around and going up and down. To me,
most of the public areas can be put in smaller ships, just made smaller.

My likes include NCL meeting the challenge of integrating restaurants
with lounges onto the ship. The navigation is a bit challenging, but if
people would apply themselves, the ship isn't that hard to navigate. For
instance, midship is where the glass elevators are, forward is near the
showroom lounge, aft is near Venetians. Most public areas are on decks
6, 7, 12 and 13. Learn what areas are aft, midship, and forward in
relation to your cabin and you should be OK. The Aqua's placement
requires that people who want to go decks lower than 6, in the aft
section, most go midship, down, and aft. For some that's poor design.
For me it is a good compromise and better for the crew that has to work
the ship 7 days a week for months and makes it more efficient for them
to get to the galley. Minor inconvenience for pax, IMO. NCL manages to
have fairly open spaces, like the atrium, some more intimate spaces,
good use of tiered levels in the atrium and smaller venues like the pub
and the Star lounge that overlooks the pool. My favorite lounge is
Spinnakers because it is not only nautically themed, it actually has
comfortable supportive swivel seats, good views of the stage from almost
anywhere (there are some support poles in the way), great views outside
(although the stage blocks off some of the center views), and actually
feels nautical. I also like the cinema and watched Monster in Law (more
entertaining than I thought it would be). The biggest problem with the
design is the pool. It's way too small, feels crowded. I understand NCL
has corrected this in some of their newer-than-Dawn ships. I like
Dazzles though dance floor is smallish. However, there's a
private-feeling Dazzles 2 club with a sizable dance floor that was
strangely unutilized in the ship. Ship has eclectic feel, the tropical
atrium, the more deco-inspired Gatsby secondary lounge, each restaurant
carried its own theme, the show lounge was deco-inspired as well, the
casino had yet another theme. Functionally, the show lounges seats were
not roomy enough in legroom or width.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:

Karaoke

Each to his own but karaoke sucks imo. I don't think I have ever read where
anybody on RTC said they didn't like karaoke. If that is the case, let me
be the first.

When I see/hear karaoke, may the wings of Mercury attach to my heels an
speed me by.
--
"Indecision is the key to flexibility however it is weighted by the
incapacity to deal with reality" -CC

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:


Karaoke


Each to his own but karaoke sucks imo. I don't think I have ever read where
anybody on RTC said they didn't like karaoke. If that is the case, let me
be the first.

When I see/hear karaoke, may the wings of Mercury attach to my heels an
speed me by.

You are the wind beneath my wings..........................

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:

But
now they have the freedom to roam about--however dictator Mom, Gina
Smith, says we all must eat together. Does anyone besides Gina want to
eat together for dinner every night? Pop pop. No, sometimes he doesn't
want to go to dinner--takes too long. Ben and Claudine. Childless couple
that sometimes wanted to take just one or two or the teenaged kids to
dinner. NOT ALLOWED.

Excuse me, was your sister born a bitch or did she practice really, really
hard? Did she set out to sabotage her "good time" or does this kind of self
deprecating behavior come normally?

"Pulled butter", puhleeese.
--
"Indecision is the key to flexibility however it is weighted by the
incapacity to deal with reality" -CC

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:

Ken talked about the various crowds in school
and insulted Courtney's crowd which resulted in her crying.

Ken decided to tell the waitress he did not enjoy his
and when she offered alternatives, Ken declined.

I have two sons. Their father would have had "Kenny" backed up to the
railing on the Promenade with a finger in his chest and his nose in his
face and the only thing Kenny would have remembered is that he survived as
he was firmly escorted back to his room....for the day.

Atrocious, infantile behavior was never tolerated, hell, it wasn't even
allowed to begin. I used to cringe when The Look came over Hubby's face, I
knew somebody was going to be unhappy very quickly.

I do not understand this, I really do not understand what parents are
thinking. "Oh he's a teenager." Bull**** on that, he's a human being and
regardless of age is going to act like one or he is going to enjoy life
alone.
--
"Indecision is the key to flexibility however it is weighted by the
incapacity to deal with reality" -CC

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:

Normal mom/daughter
love/hate competitive relationship.

Got news. There is nothing normal about this. An adult Mom doesn't compete
with her daughter and finds a way to pull back and proceed forward as the
daughter allows. She picks her spots but never gives up her authority.

When the daughter begins this behavior pattern, Mom tells her in no
uncertain terms exactly what she is doing, no yelling, simple instructive
tone. Mom disengages from the daughter, the Amish call it shun, to show
that she will not participate at the daughter's level.

Nothing normal about this, Ben, nothing at all.

--
"Indecision is the key to flexibility however it is weighted by the
incapacity to deal with reality" -CC

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:

Ken talked about the various crowds in school
and insulted Courtney's crowd which resulted in her crying.

Ken decided to tell the waitress he did not enjoy his
and when she offered alternatives, Ken declined.

I have two sons. Their father would have had "Kenny" backed up to the
railing on the Promenade with a finger in his chest and his nose in his
face and the only thing Kenny would have remembered is that he survived as
he was firmly escorted back to his room....for the day.

I would agree with neither the father of your sons nor Ken's behavior.
Ken was behaving like an ill brought up 2 year old.

But I think it is too late to start when they get to this age. They
have to be taught to respect other people's feelings and act in a
responsible adult member while they are still children. If you wait
until they are proto adults, they've already got too many bad habits.

If you start early enough and are lucky, you won't get too much of
this garbage behavior when they get to be teens.

Atrocious, infantile behavior was never tolerated, hell, it wasn't even
allowed to begin. snip

And of course an uncle isn't the one who gets to have much if any say.


grandma Rosalie

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:

Ken talked about the various crowds in school
and insulted Courtney's crowd which resulted in her crying.

Ken decided to tell the waitress he did not enjoy his
and when she offered alternatives, Ken declined.

I have two sons. Their father would have had "Kenny" backed up to the
railing on the Promenade with a finger in his chest and his nose in his
face and the only thing Kenny would have remembered is that he survived as
he was firmly escorted back to his room....for the day.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:04:19 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

I would agree with neither the father of your sons nor Ken's behavior.

I once asked Hubby about that. His answer was "it works."

Ken was behaving like an ill brought up 2 year old.

But I think it is too late to start when they get to this age. They
have to be taught to respect other people's feelings and act in a
responsible adult member while they are still children. If you wait
until they are proto adults, they've already got too many bad habits.

In my house, it started when they could walk.

If you start early enough and are lucky, you won't get too much of
this garbage behavior when they get to be teens.

Yep.

Atrocious, infantile behavior was never tolerated, hell, it wasn't even
allowed to begin. snip

And of course an uncle isn't the one who gets to have much if any say.

grandma Rosalie

Not Ben's fault, agree.

--
"I've learned to say "**** 'em if they can't take a joke" in 6 languages."
-CC

Rosalie B. wrote:

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:


Ken talked about the various crowds in school
and insulted Courtney's crowd which resulted in her crying.

Ken decided to tell the waitress he did not enjoy his
and when she offered alternatives, Ken declined.

I have two sons. Their father would have had "Kenny" backed up to the
railing on the Promenade with a finger in his chest and his nose in his
face and the only thing Kenny would have remembered is that he survived as
he was firmly escorted back to his room....for the day.


I would agree with neither the father of your sons nor Ken's behavior.
Ken was behaving like an ill brought up 2 year old.

For that moment, perhaps. But so do many adults at certain moments when
things don't go their way.


But I think it is too late to start when they get to this age. They
have to be taught to respect other people's feelings and act in a
responsible adult member while they are still children. If you wait
until they are proto adults, they've already got too many bad habits.

This is just a snapshot of an evening and Kenny, a 16 year old, will
have some bad moments. In my opinion, he has more good than bad, and he
is usually polite to elders and is and has been to service staff in
restaurants. He wants to be an adult, and will have his missteps.

If you start early enough and are lucky, you won't get too much of
this garbage behavior when they get to be teens.


Atrocious, infantile behavior was never tolerated, hell, it wasn't even
allowed to begin. snip


And of course an uncle isn't the one who gets to have much if any say.


My sister has done an admirable job of raising he children, IMO. She's a
single, hard-working mom and I know much more of her and her children
than people responding to a description of a brief snapshot of their
interaction on a cruise ship.

Geesh, the purpose for this account was to point out some family
quarreling that goes with family cruising. Not to get pointers and
judgments on raising children.

Ben S.


grandma Rosalie

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:05:15 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:


But
now they have the freedom to roam about--however dictator Mom, Gina
Smith, says we all must eat together. Does anyone besides Gina want to
eat together for dinner every night? Pop pop. No, sometimes he doesn't
want to go to dinner--takes too long. Ben and Claudine. Childless couple
that sometimes wanted to take just one or two or the teenaged kids to
dinner. NOT ALLOWED.


Excuse me, was your sister born a bitch or did she practice really, really
hard? Did she set out to sabotage her "good time" or does this kind of self
deprecating behavior come normally?

"Pulled butter", puhleeese.

Here's the situation. The waiter was taking care of a few tables of more
than 6 people. He seemed to have problems keeping up with any of them.
My sister asked for butter, drawn butter, melted butter, pulled butter,
any thing that she thought might help him and he would reply with
talking about sauces. That's what frustrated her. He didn't seem to
understand the menu or what was being requested any way we put it.

She made a decision that the family was to dine together for dinner, or
at least all 4 children. I didn't agree, and would have liked to
separate them so they wouldn't continue their arguing patterns, but that
is NOT my call.

Ben S.