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#11
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
spamfree wrote: This is somewhat of a USA rant, but Europeans will understand. In the USA, if a sign/ad includes the word bilingual, it always refers to an ability to speak English & Spanish (and not European Spanish, but Mexican / Central American Spanish). But in Europe, bilingual would simply refer to an ability to speak two languages; German & Italian, Dutch & French, etc. A European employment ad requiring bilingual employees would always attract the query "Which two languages?" This USA policy completely annoys some of us because if we ask that question, "Which two languages?", we are immediately termed racists, but in reality we are merely literalists. In any major city's Chinatown, bilingual would more honestly refer to English & Chinese, and there are neighborhoods in New York and Chicago where bilingual could easily refer to English & Polish or English & Russian. Where in the US are you? I'm in LA where we have a huge Hispanic population, but whenever I've seen an ad asking for bilinqual employees, they specify the languages they are looking for. And more often than not, they are seeking folks who speak some of the Asian languages. As for signage here, it's more common to simply have the sign include the same ad copy in the various languages represented by the company. Ads for dentists, doctors, contractors etc. state quite proudly the number of different languages their employees speak - not simply Spanish. When I worked in retail (about five years ago), our name tags specifed the other language we spoke. We had a huge number of employees who spoke French, Italian, Cantonese and even Hindi and Arabic. |
#12
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Cesar Neri wrote:
In this town, all the signs were in 2 languages and everyone was bilingual. This town was Bolzano/Bozen and in this town bilingual definitely meant being able to speak Italian and German/Austrian. I do not think there is officially such a thing as "German/Austrian" although there surely are several Austrian dialects, to which "tiroulisch" as spoken in Alto Adige / Suedtirol may be alike. But despite the fact I even saw a book of Asterix translated in tiroulisch, that should not be what is taught in schools. And yes, in most of Alto Adige / Suedtirol "bilingual" will refer to Italian and German. There should even exist a "patentino di bilinguismo", an official document which states you speak enough of both languages, necessary to get a job at a public administration. Residents there shall also declare their belonging to one of the three linguistic groups (italian, german or ladin ... but I've never heard of a requirement to be trilingual in ladin areas). Similarly I suppose bilingual may mean Flemish-Dutch and French in Belgium, possibly Finnish and Swedish in Finland, maybe Slovak and Czech in former Czechoslovakia, perhaps Catalan and "castellan" Spanish in Catalunya, or more or less complex variations thereof ... e.g. in Swizerland it might mean any two of the four official languages. Outside of such context bilingual may mean "any two parental tongues" (for instance my god-daughter is bilingual in German by father and Italian by mother ... she used to speak also some Swedish when she lived there, but maybe she forgot growing up), or generally "any two languages". As we sa "il mondo e' bello perche' e' variato" (world is beautiful because it is varied). -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
#13
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
"spamfree" wrote in message ... This is somewhat of a USA rant, but Europeans will understand. In the USA, if a sign/ad includes the word bilingual, it always refers to an ability to speak English & Spanish (and not European Spanish, but Mexican / Central American Spanish). But in Europe, bilingual would simply refer to an ability to speak two languages; German & Italian, Dutch & French, etc. Not in Wales it wouldnt. Keith ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
"Padraig Breathnach" wrote in message ... Martin Bienwald wrote: I think that would be the case in most places with more than one official or "default" language. I guess in Brussels "bilingual" would mostly refer to Dutch/French, for example. I'd expect that it refers to English/French in at least some parts of Canada. Louisiana too, I would expect. Hmm I've seen a Cajun trying to speak 'French' to a Parisian. They ened up settling for talking in English. Keith ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#15
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
spamfree wrote: This is somewhat of a USA rant, but Europeans will understand. In the USA, if a sign/ad includes the word bilingual, it always refers to an ability to speak English & Spanish (and not European Spanish, but Mexican / Central American Spanish). But in Europe, bilingual would simply refer to an ability to speak two languages; German & Italian, Dutch & French, etc. A European employment ad requiring bilingual employees would always attract the query "Which two languages?" This USA policy completely annoys some of us because if we ask that question, "Which two languages?", we are immediately termed racists, but in reality we are merely literalists. In any major city's Chinatown, bilingual would more honestly refer to English & Chinese, and there are neighborhoods in New York and Chicago where bilingual could easily refer to English & Polish or English & Russian. I'd be happy if any of the repair people my landlords employ WERE "bilingual"! I have no problem with people speaking their native tongue among themselves, but in a country where the main language is still English, it is very frustrating to try to explain a maintenance problem in my non-existent Spanish! (At least, when faced with communications problems in another country, I can refer to dictionaries and phrase books - one doesn't expect to NEED them in one's own home!) Also, it's one thing exchanging pleasantries like "buenos dias" and "por favor" and "gracias", quite another trying to explain (in Spanish) that the dishwasher drainpipe is clogged, so the dishwasher is draining through its overflow pipe into the kitchen sink! |
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:09:11 -0600, "spamfree"
wrote: This is somewhat of a USA rant, but Europeans will understand. In the USA, if a sign/ad includes the word bilingual, it always refers to an ability to speak English & Spanish (and not European Spanish, but Mexican / Central American Spanish). Well, not always. In San Francisco it might mean Chinese and English. In northern New England, French (Quebecois, that is) and English. But in Europe, bilingual would simply refer to an ability to speak two languages; German & Italian, Dutch & French, etc. A sign that said only "Bilingual" in any language in Europe would be thoroughly uninformative. A European employment ad requiring bilingual employees would always attract the query "Which two languages?" Which is why they probably wouldn't say "bilingual", except, perhaps in Belgium. This USA policy completely annoys some of us because if we ask that question, "Which two languages?", we are immediately termed racists, but in reality we are merely literalists. In most areas it would be a pretty dumb question, perhaps intended to antagonize. As one who lives in a distinctly bilingual area I rearely see signs on stores that say "bilingual": they say something like "Hablamos espanol". In any major city's Chinatown, bilingual would more honestly refer to English & Chinese, and there are neighborhoods in New York and Chicago where bilingual could easily refer to English & Polish or English & Russian. And do. But even in those areas a simple "bilingual" sign is unlikely. Instead, the business is likely to state which languages are spoken of to have signage in several languages staing the services offered. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#17
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:56:12 GMT, "Cesar Neri"
wrote: I don't think you can just make a sweeping generalization like that. Even in Europe, it all depends on what country and what region we are talking about. For example, on a trip to Bavaria many years ago, I took the Brenner pass from Austria and ended up in a town in Italy near the border with Austra/Germany. In this town, all the signs were in 2 languages and everyone was bilingual. This town was Bolzano/Bozen and in this town bilingual definitely meant being able to speak Italian and German/Austrian. So, this is at least one example in Europe where, similar to the US, the word bilingual referred to 2 specific languages. He's not whining about bilingualism, he's whining about signs that literally say "Bilingual". They seem to confuse him. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#18
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On 23 Aug 2006 08:35:55 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote: Martin Bienwald wrote: Cesar Neri wrote: I don't think you can just make a sweeping generalization like that. Even in Europe, it all depends on what country and what region we are talking about. For example, on a trip to Bavaria many years ago, I took the Brenner pass from Austria and ended up in a town in Italy near the border with Austra/Germany. In this town, all the signs were in 2 languages and everyone was bilingual. This town was Bolzano/Bozen and in this town bilingual definitely meant being able to speak Italian and German/Austrian. So, this is at least one example in Europe where, similar to the US, the word bilingual referred to 2 specific languages. I think that would be the case in most places with more than one official or "default" language. I guess in Brussels "bilingual" would mostly refer to Dutch/French, for example. Brussels has an annoying way of doing it where the sign for a street is in one language or the other, not both. So you are looking for "Rue de Ghent" and when you get to it the sign says "Klixpacqtynstraat." I lived in Montreal in the mid-1960s when bilingual signage was everywhere. The signs generally took advantage of the "fore-and-aft" methods of applying English and French adjectives. One day I was walking down the street and a car from Ontario pulled over and the drive hailed me. He wanted to know "How do I get to this Pont Mercier Bridge?" ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#19
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
Mxsmanic wrote: spamfree writes: This is somewhat of a USA rant, but Europeans will understand. In the USA, if a sign/ad includes the word bilingual, it always refers to an ability to speak English & Spanish (and not European Spanish, but Mexican / Central American Spanish). But in Europe, bilingual would simply refer to an ability to speak two languages; German & Italian, Dutch & French, etc. Many Americans don't realize that there are other non-English languages besides Spanish. Perhaps because most immigrants from other countries take the trouble to LEARN English? The public schools offer night classes in "English as a Second Language" - they used to be free, so can't be all that expensive, even now. (And certainly worth the investment for people planning to live here permanently!) |
#20
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Bilingual in Europe versus USA
Padraig Breathnach wrote: Martin Bienwald wrote: I think that would be the case in most places with more than one official or "default" language. I guess in Brussels "bilingual" would mostly refer to Dutch/French, for example. I'd expect that it refers to English/French in at least some parts of Canada. Louisiana too, I would expect. Not any more, if ever! Louisiana also has its own "Creole" which is a combination of English, French and Spanish - possibly with a few Africanisms thrown in. |
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