New Orleans Tourism

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

snip

And neither side will admit that New Orleans has been a doomed city for
decades and will continue to be so even it it is rebuilt. It sits on
active Gulf Coast down to the basin faults and is sloughing off into the
Gulf of Mexico. I have been telling people for years that the Government
should be honest with people and move the city and let the river claim what
it intends to claim. I worked as a Gulf Coast Geologist for over 20 years.
I know what I am talking about. It is time to let science be at the heart
of decision making but I fear this will not happen and there will be a
repeat of this disaster but the next time may be worse even though some may
think this is not possible - IT IS.


If you are going into the business of moving doomed cities I can think
of a few others that need it. Galveston comes to mind. And, perhaps, a
few in Florida.

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:
It is time to let science be at the heart of decision making

The ****in' Idiot in the White House is the first president in memory to
not have a Science Adviser because he believes he has a god that tells
him all he needs to know.

but I fear this will not happen and there will be a repeat of this
disaster but the next time may be worse even though some may think
this is not possible - IT IS.

Zhu De wrote:
God help these people

It already did! Now it's our turn: http://redcross.org.
__________________________________________________ _________________
Thank God I'm an Atheist.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ - http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 --- IClast at SFbay Net

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

snip

And neither side will admit that New Orleans has been a doomed city for
decades and will continue to be so even it it is rebuilt. It sits on
active Gulf Coast down to the basin faults and is sloughing off into the
Gulf of Mexico. I have been telling people for years that the Government
should be honest with people and move the city and let the river claim
what
it intends to claim. I worked as a Gulf Coast Geologist for over 20
years.
I know what I am talking about. It is time to let science be at the
heart of decision making but I fear this will not happen and there will
be a repeat of this disaster but the next time may be worse even though
some may think this is not possible - IT IS.


If you are going into the business of moving doomed cities I can think
of a few others that need it. Galveston comes to mind. And, perhaps, a
few in Florida.

Yes, Galveston is vulnerable but NOT AS vulnerable as New Orleans. Even if
a hurricane never hits New Orleans again, it is SINKING and sliding down
into the Gulf Basin. The Corps of Engineers can never defeat mother nature
in this situation. They have been and will continue to fight a loosing
battle. Just think what will happen when a Mississipi levee breaks in the
middle of the night with NO advance warning and with NO evacuations - not
even rich white folks. I have no respect for the Speaker of the House,
Dennis Hastert, but when he initially cautioned against rebuilding, he was
absolutely correct. The decision to rebuild New Orleans will be based on
"Faith Based" levee(s) and NOT science.

"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message
...
Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

snip

Yes, Galveston is vulnerable but NOT AS vulnerable as New Orleans. Even
if
a hurricane never hits New Orleans again, it is SINKING and sliding down
into the Gulf Basin. The Corps of Engineers can never defeat mother
nature
in this situation. They have been and will continue to fight a loosing
battle. Just think what will happen when a Mississipi levee breaks in the
middle of the night with NO advance warning and with NO evacuations - not
even rich white folks. I have no respect for the Speaker of the House,
Dennis Hastert, but when he initially cautioned against rebuilding, he was
absolutely correct. The decision to rebuild New Orleans will be based on
"Faith Based" levee(s) and NOT science.
==
Isn't it amazing that we know soooo much about ecology, space travel etc,
that we continually set ourselves up for disasters? I'm a Canadian and we do
just the same. Will we ever learn? BTW I think we should stop criticizing
each other and try to fix our North American problems, Conserve not waste.
Liberal, Conservative... Just names! Can't we just help our neighbours to
live better lives? It never fails to amaze me that we say we are Christian,
but we treat other unfortunate people so badly. BTW, I am an agnostic so I
am not looking at this from a religious point of view.
Geoff.

"GeoffP" wrote:
Isn't it amazing that we know soooo much about ecology,
space travel etc, that we continually set ourselves up for
disasters? I'm a Canadian and we do just the same.
Will we ever learn?

Well, it helps to have a President and Congressmen who
believe that so-called "science" is just so much hogwash.
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Covered with flowers every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?
Pete Seeger, "Where have all the Flowers Gone" (1961).

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:
Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

snip


And neither side will admit that New Orleans has been a doomed city for
decades and will continue to be so even it it is rebuilt. It sits on
active Gulf Coast down to the basin faults and is sloughing off into the
Gulf of Mexico. I have been telling people for years that the Government
should be honest with people and move the city and let the river claim
what
it intends to claim. I worked as a Gulf Coast Geologist for over 20
years.
I know what I am talking about. It is time to let science be at the
heart of decision making but I fear this will not happen and there will
be a repeat of this disaster but the next time may be worse even though
some may think this is not possible - IT IS.


If you are going into the business of moving doomed cities I can think
of a few others that need it. Galveston comes to mind. And, perhaps, a
few in Florida.


Yes, Galveston is vulnerable but NOT AS vulnerable as New Orleans. Even if
a hurricane never hits New Orleans again, it is SINKING and sliding down
into the Gulf Basin. The Corps of Engineers can never defeat mother nature
in this situation. They have been and will continue to fight a loosing
battle. Just think what will happen when a Mississipi levee breaks in the
middle of the night with NO advance warning and with NO evacuations - not
even rich white folks. I have no respect for the Speaker of the House,
Dennis Hastert, but when he initially cautioned against rebuilding, he was
absolutely correct. The decision to rebuild New Orleans will be based on
"Faith Based" levee(s) and NOT science.

In case you hadn't noticed most all of the gulf coast is sinking
including Galveston. I wonder if anyone has surveyed Florida lately?

Personally I think that we should quit insuring and providing
infrastructure to building on barrier islands. After that we can
consider not rebuilding the port of New Orleans.

By by to the midwestern grain crops for a few years.

Most of the Port of Houston is subject to storm surge as well. Better
shut that and all the associated refineries. Maybe give folks a year or
so to bring refineries in the Hudson Valley on line.

If the corps would only dump all the upstream flood control measures NO
would be a good bit better off in 30-40 years. No we can't do that
Hastert's district might get damage.

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:
Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

snip


And neither side will admit that New Orleans has been a doomed city for
decades and will continue to be so even it it is rebuilt. It sits on
active Gulf Coast down to the basin faults and is sloughing off into the
Gulf of Mexico. I have been telling people for years that the
Government should be honest with people and move the city and let the
river claim what
it intends to claim. I worked as a Gulf Coast Geologist for over 20
years.
I know what I am talking about. It is time to let science be at the
heart of decision making but I fear this will not happen and there will
be a repeat of this disaster but the next time may be worse even though
some may think this is not possible - IT IS.


If you are going into the business of moving doomed cities I can think
of a few others that need it. Galveston comes to mind. And, perhaps, a
few in Florida.


Yes, Galveston is vulnerable but NOT AS vulnerable as New Orleans. Even
if a hurricane never hits New Orleans again, it is SINKING and sliding
down
into the Gulf Basin. The Corps of Engineers can never defeat mother
nature
in this situation. They have been and will continue to fight a loosing
battle. Just think what will happen when a Mississipi levee breaks in
the middle of the night with NO advance warning and with NO evacuations -
not
even rich white folks. I have no respect for the Speaker of the House,
Dennis Hastert, but when he initially cautioned against rebuilding, he
was
absolutely correct. The decision to rebuild New Orleans will be based on
"Faith Based" levee(s) and NOT science.

In case you hadn't noticed most all of the gulf coast is sinking
including Galveston. I wonder if anyone has surveyed Florida lately?

Yes, the ocean is encroaching on ALL the US coastlines. The reason for most
of this is a rise in sea level. AGAIN, New Orleans is in an ESPECIALLY
high risk category because it is ALREADY below sea level.


Personally I think that we should quit insuring and providing
infrastructure to building on barrier islands. After that we can
consider not rebuilding the port of New Orleans.

Let's start with New Orleans and then consider the barrier islands. It is
called Triage in the Medical profession. Treat those most at risk of dying
first.


By by to the midwestern grain crops for a few years.

Most of the Port of Houston is subject to storm surge as well.

True, Houston was built on wet lands and was a real estate scam by the Allen
brothers back in the 18whatever year. I lived there for 24 years and in my
opinion it is best suited for mosquitoes and alligators and not human
habitation. Houston also has large areas that have been sinking due to
huge amounts of ground water withdrawal by industry and the subsequent
compaction of the dewatered shales. I did volunteer work for the USGS and
helped map areas of subsidence in the Houston area. There are now areas
that flood that never used to flood because of **** poor city planning and
the issue I mentioned above.

Better
shut that and all the associated refineries. Maybe give folks a year or
so to bring refineries in the Hudson Valley on line. Put them in all the
solid Republican States. As they say, the smell of the refineries is "The
smell of money".


If the corps would only dump all the upstream flood control measures NO
would be a good bit better off in 30-40 years. No we can't do that
Hastert's district might get damage.

The Corps as already ****ed up by building the numerous levees they have on
the upstream Mississippi. They are turning the Mississipi from a natural
stream into a drainage ditch. Of course this helps barge operators ship to
New Orleans but it also provides a fast track for the water down there
also. The farm lands that were naturally fertilized by periodic flooding
no longer get the flooding from waters topping the natural levees. A case
in point - The High Aswan dam in Egypt has stopped a lot of the natural
flooding of the Nile delta. The delta farm land is becoming nutrient poor.
Now a lot of the energy produced by the dam goes into producting chemical
fertilizer because the natural nutrients no longer get to the fields.

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

snip



And neither side will admit that New Orleans has been a doomed city for
decades and will continue to be so even it it is rebuilt. It sits on
active Gulf Coast down to the basin faults and is sloughing off into the
Gulf of Mexico. I have been telling people for years that the
Government should be honest with people and move the city and let the
river claim what
it intends to claim. I worked as a Gulf Coast Geologist for over 20
years.
I know what I am talking about. It is time to let science be at the
heart of decision making but I fear this will not happen and there will
be a repeat of this disaster but the next time may be worse even though
some may think this is not possible - IT IS.


If you are going into the business of moving doomed cities I can think
of a few others that need it. Galveston comes to mind. And, perhaps, a
few in Florida.


Yes, Galveston is vulnerable but NOT AS vulnerable as New Orleans. Even
if a hurricane never hits New Orleans again, it is SINKING and sliding
down
into the Gulf Basin. The Corps of Engineers can never defeat mother
nature
in this situation. They have been and will continue to fight a loosing
battle. Just think what will happen when a Mississipi levee breaks in
the middle of the night with NO advance warning and with NO evacuations -
not
even rich white folks. I have no respect for the Speaker of the House,
Dennis Hastert, but when he initially cautioned against rebuilding, he
was
absolutely correct. The decision to rebuild New Orleans will be based on
"Faith Based" levee(s) and NOT science.

In case you hadn't noticed most all of the gulf coast is sinking
including Galveston. I wonder if anyone has surveyed Florida lately?


Yes, the ocean is encroaching on ALL the US coastlines. The reason for most
of this is a rise in sea level. AGAIN, New Orleans is in an ESPECIALLY
high risk category because it is ALREADY below sea level.


Personally I think that we should quit insuring and providing
infrastructure to building on barrier islands. After that we can
consider not rebuilding the port of New Orleans.


Triage is more what I was proposing. Barrier Islands first. Now that I
think upon it start with Miami beach and, perhaps, Miami.


Let's start with New Orleans and then consider the barrier islands. It is
called Triage in the Medical profession. Treat those most at risk of dying
first.


By by to the midwestern grain crops for a few years.
Most of the Port of Houston is subject to storm surge as well.


True, Houston was built on wet lands and was a real estate scam by the Allen
brothers back in the 18whatever year. I lived there for 24 years and in my
opinion it is best suited for mosquitoes and alligators and not human
habitation. Houston also has large areas that have been sinking due to
huge amounts of ground water withdrawal by industry and the subsequent
compaction of the dewatered shales. I did volunteer work for the USGS and
helped map areas of subsidence in the Houston area. There are now areas
that flood that never used to flood because of **** poor city planning and
the issue I mentioned above.


The ground water withdrawal has pretty much been stopped for a good
while. It's a nice place to live especially in what would normally be
winter. Lots of wildlife & birds.

I think you will find the compaction a problem in the clay beds not shales.


Better
shut that and all the associated refineries. Maybe give folks a year or
so to bring refineries in the Hudson Valley on line.

Put them in all the
solid Republican States. As they say, the smell of the refineries is "The
smell of money".


If the corps would only dump all the upstream flood control measures NO
would be a good bit better off in 30-40 years. No we can't do that
Hastert's district might get damage.


The Corps as already ****ed up by building the numerous levees they have on
the upstream Mississippi. They are turning the Mississipi from a natural
stream into a drainage ditch. Of course this helps barge operators ship to
New Orleans but it also provides a fast track for the water down there
also. The farm lands that were naturally fertilized by periodic flooding
no longer get the flooding from waters topping the natural levees. A case
in point - The High Aswan dam in Egypt has stopped a lot of the natural
flooding of the Nile delta. The delta farm land is becoming nutrient poor.
Now a lot of the energy produced by the dam goes into producting chemical
fertilizer because the natural nutrients no longer get to the fields.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:15:24 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:


Yes, Galveston is vulnerable but NOT AS vulnerable as New Orleans. Even if
a hurricane never hits New Orleans again, it is SINKING and sliding down
into the Gulf Basin. The Corps of Engineers can never defeat mother nature
in this situation. They have been and will continue to fight a loosing
battle. Just think what will happen when a Mississipi levee breaks in the
middle of the night with NO advance warning and with NO evacuations - not
even rich white folks. I have no respect for the Speaker of the House,
Dennis Hastert, but when he initially cautioned against rebuilding, he was
absolutely correct. The decision to rebuild New Orleans will be based on
"Faith Based" levee(s) and NOT science.

I read an article recently that said the subsidence in the Gulf area
is worse than thought. It said that the surveys were done assuming
that where they were surveying from was bedrock but it turns out that
that area is sinking also. If I remember correctly, it said that
Galveston will be below sea level by 2100.

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

snip



And neither side will admit that New Orleans has been a doomed city
for
decades and will continue to be so even it it is rebuilt. It sits on
active Gulf Coast down to the basin faults and is sloughing off into
the
Gulf of Mexico. I have been telling people for years that the
Government should be honest with people and move the city and let the
river claim what
it intends to claim. I worked as a Gulf Coast Geologist for over 20
years.
I know what I am talking about. It is time to let science be at the
heart of decision making but I fear this will not happen and there
will be a repeat of this disaster but the next time may be worse even
though some may think this is not possible - IT IS.


If you are going into the business of moving doomed cities I can think
of a few others that need it. Galveston comes to mind. And, perhaps,
a few in Florida.


Yes, Galveston is vulnerable but NOT AS vulnerable as New Orleans. Even
if a hurricane never hits New Orleans again, it is SINKING and sliding
down
into the Gulf Basin. The Corps of Engineers can never defeat mother
nature
in this situation. They have been and will continue to fight a loosing
battle. Just think what will happen when a Mississipi levee breaks in
the middle of the night with NO advance warning and with NO evacuations
- not
even rich white folks. I have no respect for the Speaker of the House,
Dennis Hastert, but when he initially cautioned against rebuilding, he
was
absolutely correct. The decision to rebuild New Orleans will be based
on "Faith Based" levee(s) and NOT science.

In case you hadn't noticed most all of the gulf coast is sinking
including Galveston. I wonder if anyone has surveyed Florida lately?


Yes, the ocean is encroaching on ALL the US coastlines. The reason for
most
of this is a rise in sea level. AGAIN, New Orleans is in an ESPECIALLY
high risk category because it is ALREADY below sea level.


Personally I think that we should quit insuring and providing
infrastructure to building on barrier islands. After that we can
consider not rebuilding the port of New Orleans.


Triage is more what I was proposing. Barrier Islands first. Now that I
think upon it start with Miami beach and, perhaps, Miami.

Bad choice. Geologically, Florida is on a relatively stable carbonate
platform - NOT uncompacted mush - as is the case of New Orleans and the
Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi Gulf Coast.




Let's start with New Orleans and then consider the barrier islands. It
is
called Triage in the Medical profession. Treat those most at risk of
dying first.


By by to the midwestern grain crops for a few years.
Most of the Port of Houston is subject to storm surge as well.


True, Houston was built on wet lands and was a real estate scam by the
Allen
brothers back in the 18whatever year. I lived there for 24 years and in
my opinion it is best suited for mosquitoes and alligators and not human
habitation. Houston also has large areas that have been sinking due to
huge amounts of ground water withdrawal by industry and the subsequent
compaction of the dewatered shales. I did volunteer work for the USGS
and
helped map areas of subsidence in the Houston area. There are now areas
that flood that never used to flood because of **** poor city planning
and the issue I mentioned above.


The ground water withdrawal has pretty much been stopped for a good
while.

It has NOT. It is STILL continuing. For example, the area west of Houston
proper, specifically the Katy area is subsiding. If you live in that area
you will find that neighborhoods that never flooded when new will start to
experience flooding.

It's a nice place to live especially in what would normally be
winter. Lots of wildlife & birds.

Obviously you have not travelled much outside Houston if you really believe
what you say. I lived there for 24 years and left 11 years ago. if you
visit some of the state parks near Houston, you will find a sparcity of
wild life and very little diversity compared to other areas that have not
converted their forest to pine plantations for the lumber industry.
companies. Diverse wild live needs more than pine cones to survive. At
one time the Gulf Coast was a mix of hardwood and pine forest. Now it is
predominately pine plantations.


I think you will find the compaction a problem in the clay beds not
shales.

Shale is compacted clay. Clay refers to grain size and not mineralogy. In
oder (biggest to smallest) you have cobbles, pebbles, sand, silt and clay.



Better
shut that and all the associated refineries. Maybe give folks a year or
so to bring refineries in the Hudson Valley on line.

Put them in all the
solid Republican States. As they say, the smell of the refineries is
"The smell of money".


If the corps would only dump all the upstream flood control measures NO
would be a good bit better off in 30-40 years. No we can't do that
Hastert's district might get damage.


The Corps as already ****ed up by building the numerous levees they have
on
the upstream Mississippi. They are turning the Mississipi from a natural
stream into a drainage ditch. Of course this helps barge operators ship
to New Orleans but it also provides a fast track for the water down there
also. The farm lands that were naturally fertilized by periodic flooding
no longer get the flooding from waters topping the natural levees. A
case in point - The High Aswan dam in Egypt has stopped a lot of the
natural
flooding of the Nile delta. The delta farm land is becoming nutrient
poor. Now a lot of the energy produced by the dam goes into producting
chemical fertilizer because the natural nutrients no longer get to the
fields.