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#1161
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
Dave Frightens Me wrote: On 16 Aug 2006 17:16:06 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote: The Euro's opinion of themselves? No. You're insistence on putting all "Euro's" together illustrates a flaw in your thinking. You mean kind of like the way you (and others) have lumped Americans together? Which part do you disagree with? The fact that Europe is chopped up into little political units because of a millenium of bigotry and war? The use of the word 'bigotry' is just bizarre. It wasn't bigotry that was at the root of many or most of the wars that created the borders? Of course it was. The fact the European economy is lagging far, far behind the US? The fact that unemployment in most of Europe is roughly double what it is in the US? Your denial or reality doesn't make these facts go away. My denial or reality? What the hell are you trying to say? Maybe you are on crack or yaa baa or something. Ah, a typical juvenile response. Indicates you have no logical argument. Thank you for the surrender. That is meaningless, as you included "real", which could mean anything. No, Jordi included "real". I quoted him. Try to keep up. Getting a bit defensive are we? I never aimed that one at you. Then you should be careful where you embed your reply. You embedded it following *my* statement, not anyone else's. And it wasn't an attack. You are jumping at shadows. I never said it was an attack. Your tenuous grasp on reality is showing again. |
#1162
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
Jordi wrote: Tchiowa wrote: Jordi wrote: If you are unable to understand the difference between government control and regulation then you have a real problem with economics. You keep telling 4 weeks holiday is 'control' ??? No I didn't. I cited that as one example that is part of a bigger problem. 4 weeks holiday is not "control". Government ordering that companies provide benefits that aren't related to performance is one example of control. Pulling back now? You kept telling a 4 week holiday was unsustainable and government interference until provided with a couple of examples. You took 2 separate arguments and tried to piece the words together. And you didn't do a very good job. And which examples are you talking about? Australia? (You were wrong) Sweden? (You were wrong) In fact you haven't come up with a single example. Not one. Every nation you've mentioned that has a government mandated minimum of 4 weeks vacation has a higher unemployment rate than the US. The only one that is less is Norway and they are a tiny country. In Europe it's part of a much, much bigger problem. There is a problem with unemployment in Europe. It's not at all related to the vacation policy, as some countries (some of them in Europe) show. Which ones? Again and again. You keep saying that then when you cite countries they turn out to have significantly higher unemployment than the US. The mandatory 4 week vacation is not the sole cause. But it is undeniably one of the causes. Australia's unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in decades, yet still 10% higher than the US rate (4.6% - 5.1%, a .5% difference which is 10% of 4.6% - had to do the math for you so we don't have to exchange 20 more postings to get you to understand). 5% is usually considered a full employment figure. And Australia is slightly above that and the US is below that. And this is the lowest it's been in Australia in decades. As compared with a fairly typical US unemployment rate. http://www.budget.gov.au/2005-06/ove...verview_06.htm Sweden's rate is about 6%, even higher. Recovering from a 90s economic crisis, and published at 5,8%. Substantially higher than the US which is also recovering from a 2001 recession. http://www.indexmundi.com/sweden/unemployment_rate.html OK. "Other Scandinavian countries"? OK. Finland (2004, the most recent I found without spending hours proving you don't know what you're talking about): 8.9%. Finland is not a Scandinavian country, better brush up your geography. It was in Scandinavia when I was there. Did they move it? http://www.goscandinavia.com/ "Welcome to the Official Website of the Scandinavian Tourist Boards in North America. Please feel free to browse the country websites of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandin...logy_and_usage Geographically the Scandinavian peninsula includes mainland Sweden and mainland Norway, and also a part of Finland Norway (population 4 million, smaller than many American *cities*): 4.4%. Roughly the same as the US as a whole. Nearly a 5% lower, following your math on Australia. And again, smaller than some US cities. You can't take a tiny part of the whole of Europe and make a valid comparison with the US. I can find lots of small spots in the US with far, far lower unemployment. So none of your examples stand. And these are the *best examples* you can come up with. Again, as I have pointed out before, you can try to chop pieces out of the whole to try to prove something. But that is a distortion. I can cite parts of the US where unemployment is around 3%. But, *TAKEN AS A WHOLE* the unemployment rate in Europe is roughly double the rate in the US. But you don't seem to understand that Europe can't be taken as a whole, not even the EU. Too bad about that. I wonder why. All those borders. Couldn't be bigotry and hatred, could it? You want to compare pieces of the EU with the whole of the US. Invalid comparison. Of course that can be explained because when you compare whole against whole or pieces against pieces you're proven completely wrong. Further, your stats don't prove what you claim at all. Yes it's possible to have high vacations and a competitive economy, but as I've pointed out *repeatedly*, the vacation mandate is just *part* of the problem. Please, it works in other countries, you can't blame unemployment on vacation after seeing the figures in those other countries. ????? What countries????? Norway? Is that it????? But that wasn't the claim. The claim was cultural superiority (implied) due to having a lot of passports and travelling between countries. It was you who came with that term, you can think what you want. Let's go back to the Australians, they have an enormous diverse country just like the Americans and an extremely high % of passport ownership.. don't you think their 5-week holiday may have something to do with them? They have a geographically large country but a very large part of it is not exactly called a vacation destination. I lived in Australia for about a year. Australia has a much freer economy than most European countries (very similar to the US). They are doing just fine, but would do better if the economy was even more free. But I guess I have to ask why you are hanging your hat on Australia. You seemed very anxious to brag on Europe's success until you discovered that European Success is an oxymoron. But you seem to be claiming that you can't have quality without quantity. To me "quality" defines a "real" vacation. To you, if it's not 4 weeks in the first year of your employment it's not "real". Exactly. Well then you need to examine your priorities. I now see why you said holidays can be stressful, if you are trying to pack an international trip on your sole 2-week holiday you will very likely be stressed as a result. If you lived in Europe it would be easy. But, again (and again and again and again) Americans can do 10 times as much travel as Europeans without crossing an international border. So you're falling back into that same trap of assuming things are better in Europe because 1,000 years of hatred created a lot of international borders. They seem to do pretty well, so the answer is no, as the cap on vacation is economic sense. "Cap"? It's a "floor", not a cap. The floor is there by law, the cap is economic sense, as different employers give an extra holiday allowance. ???? Do you know what a "cap" is. If there was a cap then 4 weeks would be the *maximum* allowable. But given your demonstrated lack of ability to understand things economic I guess I shouldn't be surprised. |
#1163
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
"Sarah Banick" wrote ... Creole food and Philly Cheese Steaks are as common as Big Macs in the US? I don't think so. -- -- Maybe not as common, but pretty common nowadays. There are now chain restaurants and shops in many cities across the country. Here in Atlanta there are numerous Creole/Cajun restaurants, and two Philly Cheesesteak locations within a few miles of my house. Lots of communities have Mardi Gras parties every year and offer their own take on Louisiana cuisine. Some of it is pretty pathetic, mind you, but it's there :-) Amusingly, I can think of several generations of USAians who have spent considerably more time in Europe than "average" or even distinctly non-average Europeans have spent in the US. My father's father spent October, 1917 until late 1919 in Western Europe, his tour extended because of some fluency in German). While my father spent 1942-1945 unaccountably among the heathen Chinee', my mother's brothers between them spent 1943-1947 "touring" Western Europe and tending to post war matters in Germany. One of their sons capped off our custodial care of the Krauts with a tour during the declining days of post-Occupation hostages to fortune peering through binocs at the Bear. From mid1962 until mid1965, I spent 14 months in the "Med" and another three in "EastLant" visiting all sorts of European tourist traps. Add sis or so pleasure trrips and one business trip since, and I've spent more time in several European cities than in some USAian ones. One brother in law claims more time in Eastern Turkey than in West Texas. My first cousin, the retired USAF ladypilot, has flown in an out of all sorts of European fields, but did operate out of Aviano for some period during a couple of recent unpleasantnesses among the nearby Slavs and was based in Germany during GWI, hauling the casualties back and forth. Whilst we may not have done as mch business in Europe as some, all that occupational occupying/protecting/preventing even more excessive internecine butchery among Europeans ought to count for something (and certainly provides a basis to claim that we 'Merkins have often individually spent far more time in Europe than have Europeans spent wandering about the US). One thing for sure, the number of headstones covering USAian graves in Europe certainly exceeds the graves, marked and unmarked, of European soldiery lost preserving, protecting or simply setting around as good examples of freedom, liberty and democratic ideals in the US (which does leave out the French who accompanied Max and Carlota to mexico). TMO |
#1164
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
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#1166
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:19:58 GMT, mrtravel
wrote: The Reid wrote: Following up to Hatunen As I pointed out elsewhere, there were no passports until after WW1. Maybe not in the current sense, I'm sure ive seen a passport signed by Elizabeth 1st. More a safe passage, I imagine. Isn't this a passport? http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1...20passport.jpg I reckon it would depend on whether Malta required such a paper for entry or if this is a simple request from from the consul asking the Maltese to show Mr Randall all the courtesy of the port. It looks more to me like a subdued threat to the Maltese that Randall is a US citizen so don't try any funny stuff. It was only a couple of decades after the US went after the barbary Pirates. Interesting that it's a printed form. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#1167
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
On 17 Aug 2006 07:36:11 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote: Hatunen wrote: Now there's your problem. The assumption that the people in a city like Paris are representative of the entire country. That sort of dumb reasoning undermines everything you say. I see. So the people in Paris aren't French? How about Marseille? I found the same thing. You need to get out more. You need to refine your reading skills and your logical thinking. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#1168
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
On 17 Aug 2006 07:46:34 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote: Hatunen wrote: On 16 Aug 2006 17:52:39 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote: Hatunen wrote: On 15 Aug 2006 22:45:11 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote: Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and bigotry that has kept the continent at war with itself for centuries. Not something to be proud of. and Europeans can travel between most countries without going through any kind of passport control. These days, yes. But that's a recent development. The reason a lot of Euros have passports was because that wasn't the case until recently. Try to keep up. As I pointed out elsewhere, there were no passports until after WW1. The fact that they are no longer needed for much intra-European travel means that they really only served their purpose for about 80 years out of two millenia of European history. You make a pretty weak case with the passport business, espcially since you don't explain *why* passports are an indication of bigotry and hatred. Passports are not an indication of bigotry and hatred. I never said that. I could swear it was you who said: "Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and bigotry that has kept the continent at war with itself for centuries." I think I did. But, as I pointed out repeatedly, it's not the passport, it's the need for the passport. It's the international boundaries. OK. A. Passports are not an indications of bigotry and hatred. B. Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and bigotry So you claim that those two statements are not contradictory? Ever hear of "root cause analysis"? You should pick up a book. The need to have a passport in order to travel more than a couple of hours in any direction in Europe is a result of the fact that Europe is chopped up into little political entities. OK. And that is a result of 1,000 years or more of bigotry and hatred and war. Ah, see, you're waffling now; that's not what you've said. You've said it was a result of bigotry and hatred, not war. What do you think caused the war? Stale wine? Well, now. That seems to be the point we largely disagree on, doesn't it? I say that some wars may have resulted from bigotry and/or hatred but many wars have not; you say all wars have resulted from bigotry and hatred. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#1169
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
Hatunen wrote:
It looks more to me like a subdued threat to the Maltese that Randall is a US citizen so don't try any funny stuff. It was only a couple of decades after the US went after the barbary Pirates. Interesting that it's a printed form. It's a passport. Passports back then didn't come in a little book. |
#1170
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Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:09:07 +0100, The Reid
wrote: Following up to Hatunen Tourist spots??? English is the primary and *official* language of government for the EU. So because memebrs of the EU bureacracy sometimes use English it means almost all Europeans speak English? Your logic escapes mmost of us. according to the EU it has 20 official languages, soon to be 21, and 30% of Europeans can hold a conversation in English. (dont know at what level) Of course that 30% are the educated people. Tshower should try going to a small town in Spain and seeing if the garage mechanic, taxi driver or police can understand him :-) In restaurants I hear mixed groups of educated europeans speaking in mixed language without english taking priority. In a business meeting english may well be used, (nobody is denying it is becoming the world language). But spoken on the street in non anglophone countries? Total bollox. In France the idea would be heretical. We were on a train in Finland from Oulu to Tampere with an hour or so to change to the train to Turku Harbor where we were to take a ferry to Stockholm. North of Tampere the train came to a dead standstill in the middle of nowhere and sat, and sat, and sat. We were getting worried aobut our connections, but all attempts to find out from the conductor what the problem was failed because the conductor simply didn't know any English and my Finn is very, very skimpy. (We had to sprint with our luggage at Tampere to just barely catch our train to Turku, but we did make it.) ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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