How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

"DN" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

SNIP


Oh, and posting crap from "GreenLeft.org", an *EXTREME* left wing
Aussie group that openly advocates socialism simply proves how far out
in space you are.

Hang on a minute sport.

Socialism ?

Since when is this name tag so bad?

Since it's been proven to be destructive. People suffer in the long
run.

Enlighten me/us on the merits of *your preferred system* and its historical
record.

Capitalism. More people have benefited in more ways in the long run
from capitalism.

The core belief in Socialism is "Redistribution of Wealth". The core
belief in Capitalism is "Creation of Wealth".

Socialism is a zero sum game. To help one person you must hurt another
person. Capitalism helps everyone. Some benefit more than others. But
even the worst off are better under Capitalism than Socialism.

On 15 Jan 2004 17:41:28 -0800, (Tchiowa) wrote:

"DN" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

SNIP


Oh, and posting crap from "GreenLeft.org", an *EXTREME* left wing
Aussie group that openly advocates socialism simply proves how far out
in space you are.

Hang on a minute sport.

Socialism ?

Since when is this name tag so bad?

Since it's been proven to be destructive. People suffer in the long
run.

Enlighten me/us on the merits of *your preferred system* and its historical
record.

Capitalism. More people have benefited in more ways in the long run
from capitalism.

What are you talking about?

There are more governments in Latin America and in the Far East that
are RUINED because they listened to the capitalistic pitch from the US
government and and Wall Street. These countries were looted by US
Banks and US corporations.


The core belief in Socialism is "Redistribution of Wealth". The core
belief in Capitalism is "Creation of Wealth".

Socialism is a zero sum game. To help one person you must hurt another
person. Capitalism helps everyone. Some benefit more than others. But
even the worst off are better under Capitalism than Socialism.

Well, there are more nations who have a socialistic form of government
than there are nations with a capitalistic form of government.

On 15 Jan 2004 17:37:45 -0800, (cynara) wrote:

(Emma Knaps) wrote in message . com...

Anyway.. the topic of this thread doesn't make sense, because Iraq
does not have a deadly arsenal, nor did it have in the past decade.

Who says? Do you know something no one else does? Inside info?
Do tell, I'm genuinely curious.

CY
They certainly went about acquiring the technology to build such an
arsenal, and the kindest words I can say are the US Government at
least tacitly approved of what was going on by issuing validated
export licenses for the transactions. I know because was involved in
several of them, I guess the only saving grace, is it was the
Kuwaiti's who actually sold the gear. I sourced it for the Kuwaiti's
in the USA, and obtained the required export licenses that showed the
Ultimate Consignee as the National Engineering Center at the
University of Baghdad...

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...


More people have benefited in more ways in the long run
from capitalism.


FMD

Tell that to Adidas sweat shop workers, you naive, privileged (and probably
overfed) parrot.

"matt weber" wrote in message
...


They certainly went about acquiring the technology to build such an
arsenal, and the kindest words I can say are the US Government at
least tacitly approved of what was going on by issuing validated
export licenses for the transactions. I know because was involved in
several of them, I guess the only saving grace, is it was the
Kuwaiti's who actually sold the gear. I sourced it for the Kuwaiti's
in the USA, and obtained the required export licenses that showed the
Ultimate Consignee as the National Engineering Center at the
University of Baghdad...


Well, don't keep us on the edge of our seats, Matt.

What was the purpose of the gear? Centrifuges?

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

SNIP

Enlighten me/us on the merits of *your preferred system* and its
historical
record.

Capitalism. More people have benefited in more ways in the long run
from capitalism.

You do mean Alan Bond, the Late Skace, the Late Laurie Connell, current
money handlers of NAB, AMP., ANSET and the seven year list of hearings to be
heard by our Courts of other financial misadventures ? And that leaves
Japan, USA, UK etc yet unmentioned, in the list of those who we look up to
as proof that capitalism is the way to go? Pull the other leg ;-)

The core belief in Socialism is "Redistribution of Wealth". The core
belief in Capitalism is "Creation of Wealth".

Where does land speculation, or for that matter any monetary speculation fit
in on this deal of wealth creation? Speculation in Real estate for example,
does not create anything other than a bill to be paid by later generations
surely?


Socialism is a zero sum game. To help one person you must hurt another
person. Capitalism helps everyone. Some benefit more than others. But
even the worst off are better under Capitalism than Socialism.

If Socialism is a zero game, then based on what was discussed earlier in
this post, Capitalism must be a minus (negative) game. Oh, why we are about
it, how old is your system?

DN

(cynara) wrote:

Anyway.. the topic of this thread doesn't make sense, because Iraq
does not have a deadly arsenal, nor did it have in the past decade.

Who says? Do you know something no one else does? Inside info?
Do tell, I'm genuinely curious.

Do you also believe in fairies, midgets, dragons and wizzards? None
of these have been proven to be non-existent either, because you can't
prove the non-existence of something but it's pretty safe to say they
don't exist. Just like the weapons arsenal in Iraq which nobody has
been able to find. They're grim(m) fairytales too.

(Emma Knaps) wrote in message . com...
(cynara) wrote:

Anyway.. the topic of this thread doesn't make sense, because Iraq
does not have a deadly arsenal, nor did it have in the past decade.

Who says? Do you know something no one else does? Inside info?
Do tell, I'm genuinely curious.

Do you also believe in fairies, midgets, dragons and wizzards? None
of these have been proven to be non-existent either, because you can't
prove the non-existence of something but it's pretty safe to say they
don't exist. Just like the weapons arsenal in Iraq which nobody has
been able to find. They're grim(m) fairytales too.

o.com (Emma Knaps) wrote in message . com...
(cynara) wrote:

Anyway.. the topic of this thread doesn't make sense, because Iraq
does not have a deadly arsenal, nor did it have in the past decade.

Who says? Do you know something no one else does? Inside info?
Do tell, I'm genuinely curious.

Do you also believe in fairies, midgets, dragons and wizzards? None
of these have been proven to be non-existent either, because you can't
prove the non-existence of something but it's pretty safe to say they
don't exist. Just like the weapons arsenal in Iraq which nobody has
been able to find. They're grim(m) fairytales too.

Well, dear, that's properly vague, thank you. I thought you could
state some facts and sources to back up your above statement since you
seemed so adamant that this is so. I apologize. Apparently I confused
your sincere _wish_ above for an obvious statement of irrefutable
fact.
I do appreciate the comment from the other poster who replied. Now
that was some food for thought.

Was I the only one who watched the reports during the war about high
dangerous chemical readings near a bridge that was coming from the
water in the river? I recall they said the evidence was strong that a
lot of chemicals had been poured into the river at that point, and
that over time any traces would dissipate. That was one instance.

Allow me to clarify before going on that this isn't fact, merely my
thoughts, that in the months leading up to the war, So-Damn-Insane and
his cronies, knowing that the WMD's was the main thrust behind a
future war that they had no chance of winning, had more than ample
time to send most evidence of their involvement with the chemical
weapons abroad to other countries and buried or destroyed the rest as
the war was coming to a close so that when it was all over and the
dust settled, there would always be the question of whether or not
they still had their WMD program going or not. IF this was their long
term plan, to divide the world's opinions (which they knew was divided
prior to the war starting) as to whether they STILL had those
capabilities or not and permanently confuse the innocents who believe
the best of even people like him and his cronies, regardless of what
FACTS there are that they DID use such weapons on their own people
(amongst other horrors), then it looks like they are successful at
this point in time. However, I feel that it will take time, years
even, to gather ALL the facts about the WMD's and until these FACTS
come to light, or as much as the governments will ever let us know, I
plan to keep an open mind.
Sadly we live in a micro-wave society where people want certifiable
results in hand by yesterday and that's too damn bad. Some things, in
order to be done right, to be evaluated right, takes t-i-m-e,
especially in this situation. I want the facts evaluated properly and
from all angles, however long it takes. Inconvenient for making snap
decisions about whether it was right or wrong and all that, but that's
life, isn't it?
For the record, I wanted to wait before going in too. I had hoped we
could work through it, but it didn't go the way I wanted and that's
too bad. No matter what we hear in the media and think we know, damn
few of us had the insight that the governments involved had when they
made their decisions. My reversal of feelings about the war began
however when the statue of So-Damn-Insane fell and the Iraqi's
themselves who, unlike a lot of us with opinions did, lived through
that horror and were touched by it every day, and I saw that THESE
people were happy, despite the fodder they'd been fed and uncertainty
of the future; they rejoiced in the winds of change! When they
unfurled the old Iraqi flag that represented the Iraq of educated,
bright people not being drug under by the likes of that dictator and
his cronies, and how they carried those flags with such pride and joy
brought tears to my eyes because their joy touched me. After all
they've been through. It's easy for those who stand outside untouched
by the true fears and horrors of living like the Iraqi's did, those
who are happy in their lives and jobs and have food on the table and
know their husbands and sons will be home from work and school and
that their daughters have their dignity and their children have a good
chance at a fair and good future, to stand in their soft world and
smugly make judgement calls and feel righteous about it. Sure! It's
easy to sit back and look from outside the reality and think you know
and understand it all, but I bet it's a whole other thing to live
under what those people lived under for even a week. So when the
Iraqi's in majority stand up with pride and carry their flags and
rejoice in their chance at a new beginning, well, that says far more
to me than all the vague airy-fairy wishes that equates their horrible
reality with a figment of imagination on par with fairies and
wi_Z_ards.
The way the war went down will probably be a question to be discussed
for many years (and many threads)into the future regardless of what
facts come to light, but the outcome, well, so far, I think the
Iraqi's are ahead and that's what counts.
It's a hot issue with many, but thanks for allowing me the soapbox
stand and now I hand it over to the next...
CY

The electricity doesn't exist either

Emma Knaps wrote:
(cynara) wrote:


Anyway.. the topic of this thread doesn't make sense, because Iraq
does not have a deadly arsenal, nor did it have in the past decade.

Who says? Do you know something no one else does? Inside info?
Do tell, I'm genuinely curious.


Do you also believe in fairies, midgets, dragons and wizzards? None
of these have been proven to be non-existent either, because you can't
prove the non-existence of something but it's pretty safe to say they
don't exist. Just like the weapons arsenal in Iraq which nobody has
been able to find. They're grim(m) fairytales too.

john wrote in message . ..
On 15 Jan 2004 17:41:28 -0800, (Tchiowa) wrote:

"DN" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

SNIP


Oh, and posting crap from "GreenLeft.org", an *EXTREME* left wing
Aussie group that openly advocates socialism simply proves how far out
in space you are.

Hang on a minute sport.

Socialism ?

Since when is this name tag so bad?

Since it's been proven to be destructive. People suffer in the long
run.

Enlighten me/us on the merits of *your preferred system* and its historical
record.

Capitalism. More people have benefited in more ways in the long run
from capitalism.

What are you talking about?

Do you own a history book? A few hundred years ago the entire world
was in poverty. Half the world is now wealthy beyond the wildest
dreams of people then. Western Europe, North America, Japan,
Australia, New Zealand: all products of Capitalism. SE Asia has become
more capitalistic and most nations are no longer third world. Some are
on the verge of being first world.

China is a perfect example. Under Communism (which included a
Socialist economy) it foundered. It has began allowing Capitalism in
some forms in the last decade or so and it's economy is growing
rapidly. Millions are leaving poverty behind.

There are more governments in Latin America and in the Far East that
are RUINED because they listened to the capitalistic pitch from the US
government and and Wall Street. These countries were looted by US
Banks and US corporations.


The core belief in Socialism is "Redistribution of Wealth". The core
belief in Capitalism is "Creation of Wealth".

Socialism is a zero sum game. To help one person you must hurt another
person. Capitalism helps everyone. Some benefit more than others. But
even the worst off are better under Capitalism than Socialism.

Well, there are more nations who have a socialistic form of government
than there are nations with a capitalistic form of government.

And the capitalistic countries are far wealthier and their citizens
are far better off.