Question re Open Jaws Tickets - Where?

"Rog'" wrote:

Some of us remember Sabre, B4 it was Eaasy, and
B4 graphical web browsers, when one had to log in,
navigate and produce results with command lines.
Links were actual hyper-text, not pretty pictures.
Those were the days...

Well, quite. But Sabre was limited to reservation agents and travel agents. It
wasn't generally available to the public. Access to EasySabre OTOH was available
through a number of public gateways, including CompuServe. And if I remember
correctly, EasySabre was also text based. Some of the more obscure Sabre
features weren't available, but you could construct fairly complex routings and
also check the number of seats in a given fare class - something sorely missing
from the today's public web based systems, or even the airline's own web
systems.

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...

check the number of seats in a given fare class - something sorely missing
from the today's public web based systems, or even the airline's own web
systems.

Could checking the number of seats by fare class by done at
http://flyaow.com/classamex.htm

In article ,
TEP wrote:

Could checking the number of seats by fare class by done at
http://flyaow.com/classamex.htm

This is missing the most interesting fare buckets, like the
ones upgrades come out of.

"VS" wrote in message
...

This is missing the most interesting fare buckets, like the
ones upgrades come out of.


It has been recommended, that you can get this type of information at
http://www.expertflyer.com/

In article ,
TEP wrote:

This is missing the most interesting fare buckets, like the
ones upgrades come out of.

It has been recommended, that you can get this type of information at
http://www.expertflyer.com/

Yes, but EasySaabre was free.

"VS" wrote in message
...

Yes, but EasySaabre was free.


OK. If you want free, then use http://www.seatcounter.com/
and if the Class of Service is A then you may be able to upgrade from coach
to first class.
If C, you may be able to upgrade from coach to business.
If R, you may be able to upgrade from coach to business using e-upgrades
If X, you may be able to upgrade from coach to first on a two-class domestic
flight using e-upgrades
or from full J on international flights.

If none of the above, then upgrades aren't available on the flight selected.

In article ,
TEP wrote:

OK. If you want free, then use http://www.seatcounter.com/

I would, if they showed fare classes I am interested in. Unfortunately,
they don't. ExpertFlyer and KVS are better, but cost money (fair
enough). But I do miss EasySaabre.

and if the Class of Service is A then you may be able to upgrade from coach
to first class.
If C, you may be able to upgrade from coach to business.
If R, you may be able to upgrade from coach to business using e-upgrades
If X, you may be able to upgrade from coach to first on a two-class domestic
flight using e-upgrades
or from full J on international flights.

Nonsense. On the airline I fly most often, A is paid domestic first,
there is no such a thing as an ``e-upgrade,'' R is discounted business
and not upgradeable (because there is nowhere to upgrade to , and
X is deeply discounted economy.

Hint: fare classes differ from airline to airline, and seatcounter
shows only some of them and only for certain airlines.

"VS" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TEP wrote:

OK. If you want free, then use http://www.seatcounter.com/

I would, if they showed fare classes I am interested in. Unfortunately,
they don't. ExpertFlyer and KVS are better, but cost money (fair
enough). But I do miss EasySaabre.

and if the Class of Service is A then you may be able to upgrade from
coach
to first class.
If C, you may be able to upgrade from coach to business.
If R, you may be able to upgrade from coach to business using e-upgrades
If X, you may be able to upgrade from coach to first on a two-class
domestic
flight using e-upgrades
or from full J on international flights.

Nonsense. On the airline I fly most often, A is paid domestic first,
there is no such a thing as an ``e-upgrade,'' R is discounted business
and not upgradeable (because there is nowhere to upgrade to , and
X is deeply discounted economy.

Hint: fare classes differ from airline to airline, and seatcounter
shows only some of them and only for certain airlines.


In the end it doesn't matter whether you use one of these websites or
easysabre or the old command line method into one of the GDS (Sabre,
Amadeus, Galileo, Worldspan) they all have to negotiate point of sale
restrictions. When the availability request is received by the airline
various pieces of information are included which identify where the request
is coming from. That data doesn't identify you (the person) but it does
identify the travel agency making the request. The result is that the
airline can "tailor" the response. That, in turn, means that one agency
may see class codes that another doesn't and, even if both see all the same
class codes, one may see availability when the other sees "0".

Add to that your (accurate) statement that classes vary by airline and it
gets very complex.

Graham Harrison wrote:

In the end it doesn't matter whether you use one of these websites or
easysabre or the old command line method into one of the GDS (Sabre,
Amadeus, Galileo, Worldspan) they all have to negotiate point of sale
restrictions.

Back in the EaasySabre days, airline did reserve some inventory for
themselves, but were generally far more neutral about travel agency
inventory. (bookings by individuals was still very rare).

Airlines did have unpublished fares, but generally, published fares were
available to all.

Also remember that back then, EaasySabre was NOT a travel agency (as
Travelocity is now). You just accesses information from the core Sabre
engine and when you made a booking you would assign the booking for
ticketing by a travel agency at the end of the process (or to AA who
would then act as your travel agency who issued your ticket).

The big advantage of EaasySabre was the ability to search for fares and
then find available flights. And this made it easy to study the fare
rules for various fares, including various ticket combinations (open jaw
with same airline, open jaw with different airline, etc etc).

The dumbed down travel agency websites are just that: dumbed down,
designed for people who don't know that fare rules exist, even less able
to read and understand them.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Graham Harrison wrote:

In the end it doesn't matter whether you use one of these websites or
easysabre or the old command line method into one of the GDS (Sabre,
Amadeus, Galileo, Worldspan) they all have to negotiate point of sale
restrictions.

Back in the EaasySabre days, airline did reserve some inventory for
themselves, but were generally far more neutral about travel agency
inventory. (bookings by individuals was still very rare).

Airlines did have unpublished fares, but generally, published fares were
available to all.

Also remember that back then, EaasySabre was NOT a travel agency (as
Travelocity is now). You just accesses information from the core Sabre
engine and when you made a booking you would assign the booking for
ticketing by a travel agency at the end of the process (or to AA who
would then act as your travel agency who issued your ticket).

The big advantage of EaasySabre was the ability to search for fares and
then find available flights. And this made it easy to study the fare
rules for various fares, including various ticket combinations (open jaw
with same airline, open jaw with different airline, etc etc).

The dumbed down travel agency websites are just that: dumbed down,
designed for people who don't know that fare rules exist, even less able
to read and understand them.

I think you're missing my point. Yes, I agree websites are dumbed down
information from systems like Sabre. But point of sale works inside, as
well as outside, airlines systems. My example related to travel agencies
but it is equally possible a Sabre Airline user to set up a flight so that
one agency sees classes a,b and c, one airline department a,b,c,d another
airline department a, e and f and a 2nd agency a,b and f. It covers things
like groups but it also works on a geographical basis meaning that while an
American Airlines employee in London might see seats in X class an American
employee in Paris looking at eaxctly the same flight date for X class might
see no seats or might not even be able to see that X class exists on the
flight. Just because Eaasy Sabre connected straight into the Sabre
database it doesn't mean that it could see every seat and every class and if
it existed today it would have allsorts of restrictions applied to it.

Let me give you a specific examples. An agency of my acquaintance who used
Galileo found that if they looked at Galileo availability they could see AA
flights London/New York. If they used the Galileo function to delve into
the Sabre database they were told "no availability". If they tried to book
a flight from the Galileo screen which did show availability it was
rejected. After much investigation it turned out that the agency had
purchased the assests (including the IATA licence) of another agency. It
turned out that the other agency had been in dispute with American who had
therefore set Sabre to reject bookings from that agency. Once American
understood the new business situation arising from the purchase they flipped
a few switches and the agency could book again. That's a gross example.
Here's something a bit more subtle. An agency had a "deal" with British
Airways and because of that deal they could book seats in certain classes
that most agencies never saw. They opened a branch which had a different
IATA number. That branch was unable to see or sell the "deal" class.
Again, British Airways had to flip switches to permit the branch to see the
deal class.

The databases on airline systems are not open to everyone; they are tightly
controlled.