info Pompeii and Herculaneum

I would like to visit Pompeii (and if possible Herculaneum) in a
little over a month when I finally make it there with my Mom and
siter.

Going there from Rome would be a long trip, but still manageable. I
think I'm fine regarding the trains to take and where to get off since
I have several travel books.

My questions a

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?

If someone is not really "up" on Roman history, would they be bored?
Or freaked out by the plaster casts of bodies strewn about the place
and they discover that these were actually remains of people? (I'm a
little concerned because I'm the only Roman history nut in our group
and I know a bit about these two sites.)

Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits? (When we went
to the Roman Baths at Bath, I found them very helpful.)

If anyone has any more insights or comments about these sites, I would
appreciate it if you would share them. Thanks in advance!

Lil

(Lil) wrote in news:e245b78e.0312261043.5b9a2610
@posting.google.com:

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?
You just walk around the towns, elbowing with other tourists from all over
the world. There are no actors or enactments (if that's what you mean),
just ruins. Glancing at your guide maps and listening to the
audiophones...see below

Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits? (When we went
to the Roman Baths at Bath, I found them very helpful.)
Yes, this is the way to go if you're independent.

On 26 Dec 2003 10:43:27 -0800, (Lil) wrote:

I would like to visit Pompeii (and if possible Herculaneum) in a
little over a month when I finally make it there with my Mom and
siter.

My questions a

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?

Pompeii and Harculaneum are not "recreations" of historic cities, they
are the actual cities more or less in the condition they survived in
to the present day.. Many of the buildings are roofless, for instance.
I've never been to Colonial Williamsburg, but from what I've heard it
is entirely different in its conception and realization.

If someone is not really "up" on Roman history, would they be bored?

That's pretty hard to answer. Some people are naturally curious and
therefore hardly ever bored. Other people almost make a lifestyle of
being bored. In order to get anything out of Pompeii, you either have
to have an excellent guide book and read it pretty thoroughly before
you arrive (to plan what you want to see) and then consult it
regularly while you're there (to understand what you're looking at).
There are also professional guides who take groups around, in many
different languages, but I don't know how you join one of these
groups. Some of the ones I saw were pretty worthless for anyone with a
serious interest in history.

Or freaked out by the plaster casts of bodies strewn about the place
and they discover that these were actually remains of people?

I only saw one exhibit that resembled what you describe and it would
be easy to avoid it. It wasn't the remains of people, but the
impressions made by their bodies in the hot ash.

(I'm a
little concerned because I'm the only Roman history nut in our group
and I know a bit about these two sites.)

Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits? (When we went
to the Roman Baths at Bath, I found them very helpful.)

When I was there (on two occasions), there were no audiophones that I
know of.

If anyone has any more insights or comments about these sites, I would
appreciate it if you would share them. Thanks in advance!

I hope you don't think you could see both sites in one day. I once saw
Pompeii as a day trip from Rome, and it was a pretty exhausting day.
It would have been impossible to also see Herculaneum the same day.

Another thought, since you will be in Rome anyway and since your
companions aren't particularly interested in Roman history, would be
to go to Ostia Antica instead. It's about a half hour's train ride
from central Rome, and is a very interesting, in some ways more
interesting, ancient Roman city. For one thing, it reflects a much
longer period of history. Pompeii and Herculaneum were destroyed in
the first century while Ostia continued to flourish for another 400
years or so. Ostia was also a much more varied city. Pompeii is mostly
residential, a sort of bedroom community for Naples, while Ostia was a
working seaport, with multistory apartment blocks and more industry
and commerce. Ostia gives me more of a feeling for ancient Roman life
than Pompeii does. (I've never seen Herculaneum).

You could visit Ostia Antica in a half-day trip, although I would
prefer to spend more than a few hours there. If your companions don't
want to see it, they could stay in Rome and shop.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Thanks for the site recommendation; I never heard of it and it looks
like something I'd be interested in seeing; with apparently quick and
easy Rome train access.

*UP* with quality posts!

Tim K

"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...
Another thought, since you will be in Rome anyway and since your
companions aren't particularly interested in Roman history, would be
to go to Ostia Antica instead. It's about a half hour's train ride
from central Rome, and is a very interesting, in some ways more
interesting, ancient Roman city. For one thing, it reflects a much
longer period of history. Pompeii and Herculaneum were destroyed in
the first century while Ostia continued to flourish for another 400
years or so. Ostia was also a much more varied city. Pompeii is mostly
residential, a sort of bedroom community for Naples, while Ostia was a
working seaport, with multistory apartment blocks and more industry
and commerce. Ostia gives me more of a feeling for ancient Roman life
than Pompeii does. (I've never seen Herculaneum).

You could visit Ostia Antica in a half-day trip, although I would
prefer to spend more than a few hours there. If your companions don't
want to see it, they could stay in Rome and shop.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero
dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

I realize that Pompeii and Herculaneum are archaeological sites. I
particularly wanted to go to one or both after I spent a whole quarter
studying Pompeii and what was found there. I've also been to the J.
Paul Getty museum in Malibu with its recreation of a Roman villa.

The only reason why I brought up colonial Williamsburg was it was
meant to give people a feel for what life was in colonial America. I
think by wandering through Pompeii and Herculaneum, the average
visitor would get a feel for what life must have been like shortly
before Vesuvius blew.

Regarding how exhausting it was to go to Pompeii as a daytrip from
Rome, perhaps we should do Herculaneum. According to the Blue Guide
it is possible to take a tour of Herculaneum in 2 hours...I will keep
Ostia in mind, although I did have my heart set on seeing Pompeii,
Herculaneum or both.

Lil


B wrote in message . ..
On 26 Dec 2003 10:43:27 -0800, (Lil) wrote:

I would like to visit Pompeii (and if possible Herculaneum) in a
little over a month when I finally make it there with my Mom and
siter.

My questions a

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?

Pompeii and Harculaneum are not "recreations" of historic cities, they
are the actual cities more or less in the condition they survived in
to the present day.. Many of the buildings are roofless, for instance.
I've never been to Colonial Williamsburg, but from what I've heard it
is entirely different in its conception and realization.

If someone is not really "up" on Roman history, would they be bored?

That's pretty hard to answer. Some people are naturally curious and
therefore hardly ever bored. Other people almost make a lifestyle of
being bored. In order to get anything out of Pompeii, you either have
to have an excellent guide book and read it pretty thoroughly before
you arrive (to plan what you want to see) and then consult it
regularly while you're there (to understand what you're looking at).
There are also professional guides who take groups around, in many
different languages, but I don't know how you join one of these
groups. Some of the ones I saw were pretty worthless for anyone with a
serious interest in history.

Or freaked out by the plaster casts of bodies strewn about the place
and they discover that these were actually remains of people?

I only saw one exhibit that resembled what you describe and it would
be easy to avoid it. It wasn't the remains of people, but the
impressions made by their bodies in the hot ash.

(I'm a
little concerned because I'm the only Roman history nut in our group
and I know a bit about these two sites.)

Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits? (When we went
to the Roman Baths at Bath, I found them very helpful.)

When I was there (on two occasions), there were no audiophones that I
know of.

If anyone has any more insights or comments about these sites, I would
appreciate it if you would share them. Thanks in advance!

I hope you don't think you could see both sites in one day. I once saw
Pompeii as a day trip from Rome, and it was a pretty exhausting day.
It would have been impossible to also see Herculaneum the same day.

Another thought, since you will be in Rome anyway and since your
companions aren't particularly interested in Roman history, would be
to go to Ostia Antica instead. It's about a half hour's train ride
from central Rome, and is a very interesting, in some ways more
interesting, ancient Roman city. For one thing, it reflects a much
longer period of history. Pompeii and Herculaneum were destroyed in
the first century while Ostia continued to flourish for another 400
years or so. Ostia was also a much more varied city. Pompeii is mostly
residential, a sort of bedroom community for Naples, while Ostia was a
working seaport, with multistory apartment blocks and more industry
and commerce. Ostia gives me more of a feeling for ancient Roman life
than Pompeii does. (I've never seen Herculaneum).

You could visit Ostia Antica in a half-day trip, although I would
prefer to spend more than a few hours there. If your companions don't
want to see it, they could stay in Rome and shop.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

"Lil" wrote in message
om...
My questions a

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?
Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits? (When we went
to the Roman Baths at Bath, I found them very helpful.)
Lil

There is no resemblance to Colonial Williamsburg, which is a reconstruction
of an old town, not the ruins of one. I recommend you buy a clever book
(available even at the Rome airport) that has photos of the ruins with clear
overlays showing the way it looked originally. The one book has both towns.
There are licensed guides right at the gate if you want one, although I
haven't used one. I studied Pompei in Latin classes as a child and was
eager to experience Pompei directly. To me it didn't matter what I was
looking at and was more important to experience the marvel of a town snuffed
out in hours and preserved for a millenium.
The reason not to dash there and back from Rome is that most of the
treasures were removed to the archeological museum in Naples. You do not
have to stay in Naples to go there, but you could easily stay nearby and use
the train to visit it. A daytrip from Rome would be killingly difficult and
leave you with little time to do more than say you'd been there. You
certainly couldn't expect to see both towns from Rome in one day.
Barbara will suggest that if you are staying in Rome you may instead visit
Ostia Antica, and many will back her up. I, shamefully, still have not done
that, so all I can say is Pompei is not a place I would go from Rome.
Do be aware that walking in Pompei is taxing and the footing is unsure. You
surely need good tie-on sturdy shoes with support. It would be very easy to
turn an ankle. The streets are unlike today's, and have deep grooves for
wheels punctuated with stepping stones.
It would be easy to see Pompei without seeing the corpses. They are toward
the graveyard and in a glass case. They aren't really corpses, but are
minerals that filled cavities in the ashes left when the corpses
disintegrated. They are still disturbingly alive in a last moment of panic.

Regarding how exhausting it was to go to Pompeii as a daytrip from
Rome, perhaps we should do Herculaneum. According to the Blue Guide
it is possible to take a tour of Herculaneum in 2 hours...I will keep
Ostia in mind, although I did have my heart set on seeing Pompeii,
Herculaneum or both.

If you think you're interested in Pompeii, don't be too easily
talked out of it. Folks differ on preferences, but I've found
more than a few shared my reactions:

First visited Pompeii on tour - too confining and superficial
staying with the gaggle and the guides script.

Next visited Pompeii footloose - stunned by the variety, scale,
artistic quality, grandness, concreteness of antiquity

Visited Herc. footloose - less impressed, superficially better
preserved but not so grand in terms of design or quality.

Next visited Pompeii with more publications - endlessly facinating

Bottom line preference was just seeing the most of Pompeii
even with poor guidance. This assumes you won't dawdle at
the first things you see, but hard charge around (with their
map) to see the distant top sites (which a guide wouldn't take
you since a sometimes elderly group is ungainly to bring far).

I live in the USA in Pennsylvania. Wife and I went to Pompeii and
Hurculeaneum in the summer of 2000. We are in our 50s.

We loved it. We did it on our own in one day. It was hot and dry - but
your imagination runs wild with feelings of history. There may have only
been a dozen people in Hurculaneum - you have to walk about a 1/2 mile
from the train to the gate of the site.

Visit my web page - www.harry.everhart.com -

Go to the "Europe 2000" site.

I taught earth and space science for 30 years and taught kids about
volcanoes and Pompeii.


Feel free to write to me - - to ask questions.

Lil wrote:
Regarding how exhausting it was to go to
Pompeii as a daytrip from Rome, perhaps
we should do Herculaneum. According to
the Blue Guide it is possible to take a tour
of Herculaneum in 2 hours...I will keep
Ostia in mind, although I did have my
heart set on seeing Pompeii,
Herculaneum or both.

Hi Lil, I've been to Pompeii 4x, Herculaneum and Ostia Antica 2x.
IMO and as a fellow history nut there is only one Pompeii and
although the other two sites are unique in certain areas in general they
are a distant 2nd to Pompeii.
Pompeii is a _complete_ small city with it's walls and gates still
intact. Amphitheatre, gyms, theaters, Gladiator school & barracks,
Forum, temples, Baths, shops, cemeteries, rich homes, poor apts, villas,
a whorehouse etc.
In essence, Pompeii is a scale model of Rome that was frozen in time.
And Herculaneum is a section (~160m X 225m) mostly of rich homes from a
smaller town but better preserved, alot prettier and probably more
interesting to the average tourist-run some water and electric lines and
you could move right in.
Although it is possible to do both by leaving early (0645) and giving
Pompeii 4hrs and Herculaneum 2hrs. It might not be doable when you're
there because Herculaneum closes 1hr before sunset (I have seen people
still being admitted at 3pm in March).
It's ~3hrs to Pompeii but when you consider getting to the train
station, the return, waiting for the train etc etc it does make for a
long but worthwhile daytrip.
I think you should just do a more detailed visit to Pompeii. Perhaps
pack a Roman picnic lunch (wine, cheese, meat, bread, olives-quiet and
shaded near the Amphitheatre/Great Palastra area) and relax for awhile
esp if you think your mom and sister might be getting bored or tired.
Plus it makes for a great memory.
Below is a past post that should give you alittle more detail than the
guidebooks for getting there. And if your e-mail address is valid I'll
send you a few other things that might be of interest. (Ostia Antica
directions, a Julius Caesar assassination walk, Rome Catacomb
directions, etc).
Have A Wonderful Trip! Regards, Walter

You can go to either the Naples Centrale Train Station or the Piazza
Garibaldi Train Station (which is just an underground metro stop rather
than a full-fledged train station) and just follow the signs to the
Circumvesuviana (CV) train.
=A0=A0The Garibaldi & Centrale Train Station are really the same
station, with Garibaldi located 2 levels underground and in front of the
Centrale station.
=A0=A0If you arrive at CENTRALE: In front of Track 13 near the front
doors is a wide staircase/escalator which goes down one level. At the
bottom of the stairs bear left, you'll enter a hallway with the CV
ticket windows on the left (Metro ticket windows on the right).
=A0=A0If you arrive at GARIBALDI: You will go up 1 level and just before
you get to the the bottom of that staircase/escalator mentioned above
you'll turn right instead.
=A0=A0After you purchase your CV tickets continue down that (short)
hallway and then on the left is a wide hallway with moving walkways to
the CV ticket turnstiles.
=A0=A0There on the wall in front of you are 2 boards that will post the
*next* 2 arriving trains, you'll want the *Sorrento* train (don't worry
if it's not listed yet). There are 4 tracks, you'll *probably* want
Track (Binario) 3 (I've stayed in Naples 3x and it always left from BIN
3!).
=A0=A0Half-way down *each* platform is another Departure Board and it
will list the next arriving train's destination & time. The train's
destination for you will be "Sorrento", this train runs ~every
half-hour.
=A0=A0The train stops at Ercolano (Herculaneum) (~18min) and Pompeii in
~35min and Sorrento in ~1hr. The stop you want is "Pompeii Scavi-Villa
dei Misteri" or "Ercolano" for Herculaneum. Be aware that there are a
few "Direttissimo" (fast CV trains) which skip alot of the smaller stops
and will hit Ercolano and Pompeii in less time.
=A0=A0=A0=A0Exit the Pompeii Scavi Station turn right and walk 50m (I
would buy water & snacks from the stalls along there if need be, there's
also a restaurant) to the entrance which is set back alittle on the
left.
=A0=A0There are licensed guides with ID's outside the entrance that
charge ~35-40 euro/hour per *tour* *not* per person, same price as for 1
person or for a small group (5).
=A0=A0The entrance is a small outdoor complex of bldgs containing the
ticket windows, ATM, gift & *guidebook* shop and an info booth. You
might want to check at the info booth and see if they have any special
sites open, there will be limited entry requiring a free ticket for a
certain time (in '02 there were 3 limited access sites opened).
=A0=A0In the middle of this outdoor complex is an octagon bldg in the
center that rents the audioguide tours. A CC or any type of photo ID is
required for security.
=A0=A0It was my 4th visit to Pompeii and I'm a bit of a history buff, I
thought the audioguide was very good. But you might want to have a
guidebook with decent map though. I've read a few posts where people
couldn't find some of the audioguide sites and I believe I might have
had to check my other map also for 1 or 2 sites. Also at the ticket
turnstiles (not the ticket sales window) there is a secured "Luggage
Storage" room on the right. After you enter the site you come across the
Forum, look to the left at the far end, that is the Temple of Jupiter
and behind that temple a little ways back is a building with a
restaurant, snack bar, giftshop, and w.c. =A0
=A0=A0If you wish [I highly recommend it] to visit the Villa dei Misteri
in the NW corner of Pompeii, do so at the end of your visit (you
*cannot* re-enter the site afterwards). You must exit here and walk back
(600m) to the same CV station (at this exit there is also a restaurant
with a pay w.c.). =A0=A0
=A0=A0HERCULANEUM: To visit Herculaneum (Ercolano CV station is halfway
between Naples and Pompeii on the *same* CV train line), exit the
station (only one-way out) into the *small* parking lot and the *only*
street there (45deg to your right), takes you *right* to the Herculaneum
entrance [Audioguides available] after a 6 min downhill walk towards the
Bay of Naples. Impossible to get lost or miss. Also right outside the CV
station are taxi minivans that will take you to atop Mt. Vesuvius (not
sure of the cost, but they'll be "pitching" to you as you walk by also
"Let's Go Italy" mentions that there is a bus nearby the station to Mt.
Vesuvius.
=A0=A0ALSO WHILE AWAITING your train back to Rome from the Naples
Centrale Station, in front of ~track 18 there is a glassed-in sitting
room (quiet & secure) for ticketed passengers *only*. =A0=A0.....TO
VISIT THE NAPLES MUSEO ARCHEOLOGICO NAZIONALE
www.cib.na.cnr.it/mann/museum/mann.html Across from the CV ticket
windows (mentioned above in the Naples train station) buy a metro day
pass or 2 tickets, to the left of the booth is the turnstile and
directly in front of that is Track 4, go down to track 4 hop on the
train and get off at the 1st stop (Piazza Cavour). When you exit the
metro turn right on the *busy* street in front and walk (uphill) ~150m,
you'll see a large 3 story building with pinkish bricks on the same side
of the street, thats the museum.
=A0=A0Also outside this metro stop (P. Cavour) is the bus stop for the
110 bus to Palazzo Reale di Capodimonte.



...And Paradise Was Lost...like teardrops in the rain...

In article ,
(Lil) wrote:

I would like to visit Pompeii (and if possible Herculaneum) in a
little over a month when I finally make it there with my Mom and
siter.

Going there from Rome would be a long trip, but still manageable. I
think I'm fine regarding the trains to take and where to get off since
I have several travel books.

My questions a

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?

If someone is not really "up" on Roman history, would they be bored?
Or freaked out by the plaster casts of bodies strewn about the place
and they discover that these were actually remains of people? (I'm a
little concerned because I'm the only Roman history nut in our group
and I know a bit about these two sites.)

Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits? (When we went
to the Roman Baths at Bath, I found them very helpful.)

If anyone has any more insights or comments about these sites, I would
appreciate it if you would share them. Thanks in advance!

Lil

YOU MUST have a good guidebook or else hire a guide [I found the guides
annoying and filled with the usual travel guide nonsense when I
overheard them with other groups -- I prefer to get actually good
information and go it alone -- ]

these places are ruins with virtually no signing at all -- if you don't
have a good guidebook, it will be tedious and boring and meaningless -
and I love ruins

I think they do have audiophones -- but I am not certain

there are shops where you can buy guidebooks, but you might be better
off getting a really good one before you arrive

it is not at all like twinky sites like Taos or Colonial Williamsburg
with people dressed up and buidings recreated

the casts are not 'strewn about the site' -- there are a few under class
on display -- and it is powerful to look into the face of someone who
died 2000 years ago

Of the two sites, I would choose Pompeii as the more interesting