info Pompeii and Herculaneum

In article ,
(Jenn) wrote:

I definitely agree that Pompeii is the one to see -- and I too have
seen the others. spend a night in Sorento and take the train there --
[you can leave luggage at the site before going into Pompeii if you
have an overnight bag] -- or stay in Naples and see the museum as well.

or, if schedules necessitate it, modern pompeii itself is actually quite a
pleasant little town to stay in.

In article ,
(Lil) wrote:

Hmmmm. How pesky are the dogs? One of our parties is a bit afraid of
dogs because they've been bitten as a child.

they're not menacing and it struck me that they mostly hung around near
the entrance. needless to add, feeding or paying any attention to them
will only encourage them to follow you so if your friend doesn't like
dogs, pay them not a whit of notice and they'll soon lose interest.

In article ,
wrote:

In article ,
(Lil) wrote:

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?

(speaking of pompeii in this post as i haven't been to herculaneum yet)

only in the loosest possible sense! the buildings are -not- recreations,
they are the real thing - albeit structurally shored up here and there.

If someone is not really "up" on Roman history, would they be bored?

i don't think so, insofar as much of the interest of the place is in
seeing how ancient rome's mundane things differed from our mundane things.
a curious attitude and a decent guidebook should be enough. it might be
more fun if they learned a little about roman -daily life- -- but there's
no real need to know anything about the great sweep of roman history to
appreciate the places.

incidentally, if your travelling companions don't like the idea of getting
into history books, suggest they read robert harris's new novel 'pompeii',
which is a pretty vivid picture of life at the time of the eruption. it's
about the right length for a transatlantic flight.

Or freaked out by the plaster casts of bodies strewn about the place
and they discover that these were actually remains of people?

there are hardly any of these, in fact.

Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits?

i -think- i saw people using them.

If anyone has any more insights or comments about these sites, I would
appreciate it if you would share them.

i was at pompeii about the same time as you earlier this year and it was
-extremely- cold -- so wrap up warm -- but almost empty of visitors, which
was great. also be aware that it is a lot bigger, geographically, than you
might expect and there are no refreshment facilities beyond the entrance.

in the summer there was a sort of cafeteria but it was closed except for
a gelato stand [with the ersatz stuff no one would buy if it weren't the
only shop in town] -- it is open for lunch in summer.

it is important to pack refreshment because once into the site you
cannot leave it to visit the shops or restaurants and then go back in
We packed a picnic and enjoyed eating it over by the stadium seated on a
huge pine log in the shade

In article ,
(Jenn) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
i was at pompeii about the same time as you earlier this year and it
was -extremely- cold -- so wrap up warm -- but almost empty of
visitors, which was great. also be aware that it is a lot bigger,
geographically, than you might expect and there are no refreshment
facilities beyond the entrance.

in the summer there was a sort of cafeteria but it was closed except
for a gelato stand [with the ersatz stuff no one would buy if it
weren't the only shop in town] -- it is open for lunch in summer.

you're right, and i didn't express myself very clearly. that cafeteria is
indeed inside the site and was open when i was there in january of this
year (but, as you say, not very good).

however, if we're talking about the same one, it is pretty close to the
entrance. i should have said 'there are no refreshment facilities in the
further reaches of the site'.

Jenn schrieb:

In article
1g6ojgp.i6flzxfa3289N%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.co.uk,
(David Horne) wrote:

Jenn wrote:

YOU MUST have a good guidebook or else hire a guide [I found the guides
annoying and filled with the usual travel guide nonsense when I
overheard them with other groups -- I prefer to get actually good
information and go it alone -- ]

these places are ruins with virtually no signing at all -- if you don't
have a good guidebook, it will be tedious and boring and meaningless -
and I love ruins

About guides- we picked up some interesting tidbits just overhearing
what guides were telling people.
One piece of information that struck me deeply was that those grooves
you can see in the doorsteps of the buildings were there to put up
storefront shuttering. Having heard that, I was amazed to realize just
how many shops there were in Pompei, it seems like nearly every building
on some streets. That stonemasonry must have been mass-produced, all
with the same identical system of grooves and rebating, plus they must
have used some clever system to lock the last shutter in place..

I'm not sure if I'd agree with that, but it depends on what you're into
really. We had a wonderful day, just wandering around, and we just had a
rudimentary map, and read a little bit from Let's Go- which is probably
not what you meant by "good guidebook." Pompeii in particular is one of
those sites that most people visiting will have _some_ idea about. For a
lot of people, just being there, under the slightly menacing gaze of
Vesuvius- can be thrilling in itself.

Oh, and there are _some_ signs, thinking of the intriguing pictures over
some of the rooms in the Lupernarium!

David

unfortunately the Lupernarium is locked up and accessible only to those
with guides [or to those like us who sneak in on the tail end of guided
tours for such events] we saw many gardens and homes the same way -- as
guides opened them for their tour groups

We just got back from Naples and Pompei yesterday. We walked through the
Lupernarium with no problems. There's a sign outside limiting the number
of people in the building to ten, but noone takes any notice. Were you
there in summer perhaps?

I think that it is mostly a pile of rocks without a good map and
guideboook -- and endlessly fascinating with

In article , Lil
wrote:

I would like to visit Pompeii (and if possible Herculaneum) in a
little over a month when I finally make it there with my Mom and
siter.

Going there from Rome would be a long trip, but still manageable. I
think I'm fine regarding the trains to take and where to get off since
I have several travel books.

My questions a

Is Pompeii and Herculaneum like colonial Williamsburg, but without the
guides and interpreters?

Don't know, never been there. You can check out my photos pages:
Pompeii:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Gra...toAlbum60.html

Herculaneum:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Gra...toAlbum62.html

If someone is not really "up" on Roman history, would they be bored?

Not too bad. There are audioguides for rental - these are good.
However, they are a little long-winded, which doesn't work well if you
are on a time-budget. So you might feel the need to 'press on' and
just see the next place on the little site maps you can get.

Or freaked out by the plaster casts of bodies strewn about the place
and they discover that these were actually remains of people? (I'm a
little concerned because I'm the only Roman history nut in our group
and I know a bit about these two sites.)

There is none of this in Herculaneum, and only a little bit in Pompeii.

Note that all the art found at these places are in the big
archeological museum in Naples. Getting there is daunting - I'd take a
cab from the Naples train station if I were you. But it is a GREAT art
museum.

Can you rent out audiophones describing the exhibits? (When we went
to the Roman Baths at Bath, I found them very helpful.)

Yep - they're just like that. Helpful, and long-winded at times.

If anyone has any more insights or comments about these sites, I would
appreciate it if you would share them. Thanks in advance!

Pompeii is freaking huge. I'm an ancient ruins nuts and even I didn't
see it all. And, unfortunately, the litle map they give you seems
deliberately design to maximize walking - so you know.

I wouldn't try to see both places in one day. One day each, and expect
to miss some of Pompeii.

In Pompeii, but sure to check out the brothel and the laundry next to
it.

Lil

--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from my 3-month European vacation and Wales 2003 at
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda

In article , B Vaughan
wrote:

On 26 Dec 2003 10:43:27 -0800, (Lil) wrote:

If someone is not really "up" on Roman history, would they be bored?

That's pretty hard to answer. Some people are naturally curious and
therefore hardly ever bored. Other people almost make a lifestyle of
being bored. In order to get anything out of Pompeii, you either have
to have an excellent guide book and read it pretty thoroughly before
you arrive (to plan what you want to see) and then consult it
regularly while you're there (to understand what you're looking at).
There are also professional guides who take groups around, in many
different languages, but I don't know how you join one of these
groups. Some of the ones I saw were pretty worthless for anyone with a
serious interest in history.

Not to mention that the tour groups are EVIL. Solely existing to
congregate in front of the photo shot you want to take.


-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from my 3-month European vacation and Wales 2003 at
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda

In article , Lil
wrote:

[...]

Regarding how exhausting it was to go to Pompeii as a daytrip from
Rome, perhaps we should do Herculaneum. According to the Blue Guide
it is possible to take a tour of Herculaneum in 2 hours...I will keep
Ostia in mind, although I did have my heart set on seeing Pompeii,
Herculaneum or both.

Lil

In my most humble opinion, those Blue Guides must be written by the
same ETG* people who hurtle tourists too quickly through sites. If I
am going to travel all that way to see something I've wanted to see all
my life, I don't want my eyes to merely observe the site - I want to
poke around and check everything out - you know? And the audioguides
for rent are great and have way more info than the ETG people relate.

Dan

* ETG: Evil Tour Group

--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from my 3-month European vacation and Wales 2003 at
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda

Dan,

Dan Stephenson wrote in message .. .

You can check out my photos pages:
Pompeii:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Gra...toAlbum60.html

Herculaneum:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Gra...toAlbum62.html


The pictures are pretty neat. I think I would like Pompeii better,
but Herculaneum seems better preseerved and might be "easier to
appreciate" than Pompeii. Is Herculaneum as well-organized as
Pompeii? (I think someone here may have mentioned that Pompeii is
better organized.) Do they also have audiophones? It also seems more
compact...

So, would it be possible to do Herculaneum rather than Pompeii, then
head back to Naples to hit the Archaeological Museum? Spend a few
hours there, then head back to Rome after dinner?

Thanks.

Lil

In article , Lil
wrote:

Dan,

Dan Stephenson wrote in message
.. .

You can check out my photos pages:
Pompeii:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Gra...toAlbum60.html

Herculaneum:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda/Gra...toAlbum62.html


The pictures are pretty neat. I think I would like Pompeii better,
but Herculaneum seems better preseerved and might be "easier to
appreciate" than Pompeii. Is Herculaneum as well-organized as
Pompeii? (I think someone here may have mentioned that Pompeii is
better organized.) Do they also have audiophones? It also seems more
compact...

Herculaneum and Pompeii are equally well-organized, with little maps
and numbered markers. Both have audioguides for rent - punch in the
number and hear the audio. Herculaneum is more compact and better
preserved, Pompeii has more to see but it less well preserved. Pompeii
also has a Theatre and an Amphitheatre. Herculaneum feels more like a
coastal resort (which I believe it was).

So, would it be possible to do Herculaneum rather than Pompeii, then
head back to Naples to hit the Archaeological Museum? Spend a few
hours there, then head back to Rome after dinner?

That might be possible. Just find out when Herculaneum opens and plan
the train travel to get there just before that time. This is not only
to give you maximum time at the site before leaving, but also helps
avoid the ETGs (Evil Tour Groups), which arrive about an hour after
opening. This effect is probably lessened right now in off-season.

You not only need to know the schedule to arrive in Naples by train
from Rome, but also then take a commuter train from a side-station in
the Naples train station to Herculaneum. This commuter train line is
called Circumvesuviana. I recommend getting to Naples at least an hour
before the Herculaneum site opens. Then, in Naples, ask for
Circumvesuvia: "Dove Circumvesuviana?" (Dove is pronounced "Doh-vay").
You'll get directed downstairs and there are some ticket booths to get
a ticket. Get a Return ("ray-toor-no") ticket for the trip back from
"Ercolano Scavi" - this is the Italian name. I think Scavi means
Excavation. You go down a long hall and swipe your ticket at the far
end. Then find the track ("binario") you need. Note: the track you
need is the same on that goes to Pompeii and Sorrento, so that should
help. Then get on the train when it arrives (maybe 5-15 minutes), and
go to ther Ercolano stop. Get out, and following the signs for 1/2
mile down the street to a big white arch with "Herculaneum" written on
it. That's the entrance gate. Ask a shopkeeper for directions if you
need them. You can then spend several hours in the site.

When you're finished, go back to the Circumvesuviana station, and back
to Naples. It is possible to take the Naples subway trains to a stop
sort-of near the Naples archeological museum, but you then need to
dodge traffic on foot which is a sure means of death in Naples. I
highly recommend taking a taxi from the Naples train station to the
museum, and taking a taxi back. This will save you time, too. Do a
Google search to find opening times - I had two guidebooks with me
when I went, but they conflicted on what days it was open. So MAKE
SURE you check! There is a bag check there if you want to use it.
Highlights in this museum are the Battle of Issus mosaic from Pompeii,
Farnese Bull and a big Hercules.

Thanks.

Sure thing!

By the way, if you get Rick Steve's _Rome_ book (which you might like
anyway for Rome), he has a back section for Naples and other things to
see it in. It also talks about getting to Circumvesuviana.

Lil

--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from my 3-month European vacation and Wales 2003 at
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda