The seat reclining debate revisited - news story

I guess this item was an idea whose time had come - now, I wonder if
it will be welcomed, or banned? Interesting concept, as this issue is
quite polarizing. Myself, I'm one of those who seldom reclines his
seat, and would respond affirmatively to a request by the person
behind me to raise my seat if my reclining bothered them. Others here
on r.t.a. have voiced their opinion that it is their seat to recline
or not recline as they see fit.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

*** QUOTE ***

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/vacat...e-defender.htm

Airline seat Knee Defender device kicks up a debate

By Laura Bly, USA TODAY

To recline, or not to recline?

An already contentious debate is gaining altitude among space-starved
frequent fliers, thanks to a plastic wedge that slips over a lowered
tray-table arm and keeps would-be recliners from putting the squeeze
on passengers sitting behind them.

Since its Web-based launch two weeks ago, the $9.95 Knee Defender has
generated several hundred orders — and a planeload of controversy over
its ethics and legality.

Inventor Ira Goldman, a 6-foot-3, Washington, D.C.-based former
congressional aide, says he came up with the idea after deciding
"there must be a better way to defend against reclining seatbacks than
waiting to be smacked by one or hoping to be quick enough to stop it
with a straight-arm block."

Though Goldman says he knows of no prohibitions against its intended
use, the Knee Defender's Web site cautions would-be users to "always
comply with the flight attendant's instructions."

And Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Paul Takemoto takes a
dim view: "Airline seats are designed and installed to strict
regulations, and we wouldn't allow passengers to bring uncertified
devices or pieces of equipment that alter the way those seats
perform."

Goldman insists the device "was not developed so people can hog scarce
space when they don't need it" and says it wouldn't be necessary on
airlines that offer extra legroom in economy.

*** END QUOTE ***

The Bill Mattocks wrote:
I guess this item was an idea whose time had come - now, I wonder if
it will be welcomed, or banned? Interesting concept, as this issue is
quite polarizing. Myself, I'm one of those who seldom reclines his
seat, and would respond affirmatively to a request by the person
behind me to raise my seat if my reclining bothered them. Others here
on r.t.a. have voiced their opinion that it is their seat to recline
or not recline as they see fit.

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.

The Bill Mattocks wrote in message ...

And Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Paul Takemoto takes a
dim view: "Airline seats are designed and installed to strict
regulations, and we wouldn't allow passengers to bring uncertified
devices or pieces of equipment that alter the way those seats
perform."


So is this bureaubabbler saying the TSA will confiscate the KD ?
After all it would prevent obeying the frequntly-heard instruction "Please
ensure your seat back is fully reclined" ;-) Dolt.

Great idea, beats the old full bottle of water trick, although not so
subtle.
Love the 'courtesy card'. Yeah right, I'll give that to the clown in front.

B.

In article ,
mrtravel wrote:

The Bill Mattocks wrote:
I guess this item was an idea whose time had come - now, I wonder if
it will be welcomed, or banned? Interesting concept, as this issue is
quite polarizing. Myself, I'm one of those who seldom reclines his
seat, and would respond affirmatively to a request by the person
behind me to raise my seat if my reclining bothered them. Others here
on r.t.a. have voiced their opinion that it is their seat to recline
or not recline as they see fit.

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.


exactly -- the person who bought the seat owns the recline space-- most
people me included will do our best to accomodate someone who has a
legitimate problem e.g. the pregnant woman, the very tall guy with
serious knee space problems -- but upright seats are intensely badly
designed and uncomfortable and many people are fairly miserable in them

my comfort is however not less important than someone else's desire to
confiscate my space for their own comfort

I care about the recline and never take a seat that doesn't if I can
help it -- -- if someone sticks a wedge in MY SEAT, then the wedge will
be removed [just as the suitcase that someone in the seat ahead of me
had placed in my footspace was removed]

"mrtravel" wrote in message
om...

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.


I agree, but I still might buy the device. Here's why.

If I have such a device on there, and I'm asked to remove it by the
passenger in front of me, I would comply politely. But there have been
far too many time when I have, for instance, almost lost my dinner, drink
or (far worse!) laptop screen to some unthinking clod who just threw
the seat back into full-recline without looking. If this little piece of
plastic prevented a broken LCD, it would be more than worth it!

Bob M.

"Bob Myers" wrote in message
...

"mrtravel" wrote in message
om...

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.


I agree, but I still might buy the device. Here's why.

If I have such a device on there, and I'm asked to remove it by the
passenger in front of me, I would comply politely. But there have been
far too many time when I have, for instance, almost lost my dinner, drink
or (far worse!) laptop screen to some unthinking clod who just threw
the seat back into full-recline without looking. If this little piece of
plastic prevented a broken LCD, it would be more than worth it!

Bob M.

If the passenger in front of you tried to recline, but couldn't because of
the device, would you tell him, or would you just let him think his seat was
broken?

mrtravel wrote:

The Bill Mattocks wrote:

I guess this item was an idea whose time had come - now, I wonder if
it will be welcomed, or banned? Interesting concept, as this issue is
quite polarizing. Myself, I'm one of those who seldom reclines his
seat, and would respond affirmatively to a request by the person
behind me to raise my seat if my reclining bothered them. Others here
on r.t.a. have voiced their opinion that it is their seat to recline
or not recline as they see fit.

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.

You will find that hard to do if the space needed to recline is occupied
by my knees. I may be willing to dump all the airline magazine junk on
the floor if the FAs don't mind but that will only get you another cm or
so. FFM

Your concept of what space you own is interesting. I'll simply ignore
you. Attempting to crush my knees may result in reflex responses which
may fold your seat completely. FFM

Jenn wrote:

In article ,
mrtravel wrote:


The Bill Mattocks wrote:

I guess this item was an idea whose time had come - now, I wonder if
it will be welcomed, or banned? Interesting concept, as this issue is
quite polarizing. Myself, I'm one of those who seldom reclines his
seat, and would respond affirmatively to a request by the person
behind me to raise my seat if my reclining bothered them. Others here
on r.t.a. have voiced their opinion that it is their seat to recline
or not recline as they see fit.

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.



exactly -- the person who bought the seat owns the recline space-- most
people me included will do our best to accomodate someone who has a
legitimate problem e.g. the pregnant woman, the very tall guy with
serious knee space problems -- but upright seats are intensely badly
designed and uncomfortable and many people are fairly miserable in them

my comfort is however not less important than someone else's desire to
confiscate my space for their own comfort

I care about the recline and never take a seat that doesn't if I can
help it -- -- if someone sticks a wedge in MY SEAT, then the wedge will
be removed [just as the suitcase that someone in the seat ahead of me
had placed in my footspace was removed]

mrtravel wrote in message . com...
I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.

Even 'paying for it' is no guarantee of adequate space! On the HP
737-300's, when the seat in row 1 is fully reclined, the pax in row 2
can't even stand up straight, let alone cross his legs, etc. The
seats are wider and more cushioned, which is nice, but the seat pitch
is actually less than coach when the seat in front is fully reclined.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Jenn wrote in message ...
exactly -- the person who bought the seat owns the recline space-- most
people me included will do our best to accomodate someone who has a
legitimate problem e.g. the pregnant woman, the very tall guy with
serious knee space problems -- but upright seats are intensely badly
designed and uncomfortable and many people are fairly miserable in them

I don't know who 'owns' the space where the seat reclines; to me it is
less clear-cut than the issue of who 'owns' the space under the seat
in front of you. But in my experience, few people are sensitive at
all to the requirements, legitimate or otherwise, of the person in
back of them. I seldom see anyone look behind them before reclining,
or recline slowly instead of all at once, or even move the recline up
while eating. They just get on the plane, sit down, get airborne, and
BANG, straight back with the chair. It's like being on one of the
newer roller-coaster rides, where the bar comes back to lock you in -
you ain't going nowhere until the ride's over.

my comfort is however not less important than someone else's desire to
confiscate my space for their own comfort

I seldom recline my seat, and I can sleep sitting bolt upright - in
fact, I usually do. I find my flights less stressful when I don't try
to read, work, or etc on the plane. I just turn off like a switch. I
wake up when I feel the plane starting to descend.

I care about the recline and never take a seat that doesn't if I can
help it -- -- if someone sticks a wedge in MY SEAT, then the wedge will
be removed [just as the suitcase that someone in the seat ahead of me
had placed in my footspace was removed]

I suspect that most people won't know that the wedge is in there -
they'll just assume that the seat is broken and/or won't recline after
trying a few times. Heck, most idjits don't even know you can't bring
yer flame-thrower on the plane anymore.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks