The seat reclining debate revisited - news story

"Bob Myers" wrote in message ...
If I have such a device on there, and I'm asked to remove it by the
passenger in front of me, I would comply politely. But there have been
far too many time when I have, for instance, almost lost my dinner, drink
or (far worse!) laptop screen to some unthinking clod who just threw
the seat back into full-recline without looking. If this little piece of
plastic prevented a broken LCD, it would be more than worth it!

I've pretty much given up trying to use a laptop on a plane. Too much
effort, and too much risk of damage.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

On 10 Oct 2003 21:22:28 -0700, (The Bill
Mattocks) wrote:

mrtravel wrote in message . com...
I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.

Even 'paying for it' is no guarantee of adequate space! On the HP
737-300's, when the seat in row 1 is fully reclined, the pax in row 2
can't even stand up straight, let alone cross his legs, etc. The
seats are wider and more cushioned, which is nice, but the seat pitch
is actually less than coach when the seat in front is fully reclined.

Hardly - "seat pitch" is defined as the distance from a point on one
seat to the identical point on the seat behind it when both seats are
in their upright positions. It is impossible to change it merely by
reclining the seat.


Dave

Dave Proctor wrote in message . ..
Hardly - "seat pitch" is defined as the distance from a point on one
seat to the identical point on the seat behind it when both seats are
in their upright positions. It is impossible to change it merely by
reclining the seat.

OK, then I used the term incorrectly, mea culpa! What I mean is that
when the forward seat is reclined fully, you can not stand straight up
from a sitting position in the rear seat - the seat back protrudes too
far into the 'leg' area of the rear seat to make this possible.

I was in an HP 737-300 this morning, from SNA-PHX. I was in 2A. I
happened to board early, got situated, fell asleep with one leg
crossed over the other. When I awoke, we were airborne, and the
fellow in 1A had fully reclined. I could not 'unbend' my leg without
performing some minor gymnastics, there was no room.

Better explanation?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

The Bill Mattocks wrote:
Dave Proctor wrote in message . ..

Hardly - "seat pitch" is defined as the distance from a point on one
seat to the identical point on the seat behind it when both seats are
in their upright positions. It is impossible to change it merely by
reclining the seat.


OK, then I used the term incorrectly, mea culpa! What I mean is that
when the forward seat is reclined fully, you can not stand straight up
from a sitting position in the rear seat - the seat back protrudes too
far into the 'leg' area of the rear seat to make this possible.

I was in an HP 737-300 this morning, from SNA-PHX. I was in 2A. I
happened to board early, got situated, fell asleep with one leg
crossed over the other. When I awoke, we were airborne, and the
fellow in 1A had fully reclined. I could not 'unbend' my leg without
performing some minor gymnastics, there was no room.
Better explanation?

Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

My only problem is why the gymnastics. Why not just poke the guy in
front and ask him to fold his seat. If no response then fold it for
him. FFM

In article ,
(The Bill Mattocks) wrote:

Jenn wrote in message
...
exactly -- the person who bought the seat owns the recline space-- most
people me included will do our best to accomodate someone who has a
legitimate problem e.g. the pregnant woman, the very tall guy with
serious knee space problems -- but upright seats are intensely badly
designed and uncomfortable and many people are fairly miserable in them

I don't know who 'owns' the space where the seat reclines; to me it is
less clear-cut than the issue of who 'owns' the space under the seat
in front of you. But in my experience, few people are sensitive at
all to the requirements, legitimate or otherwise, of the person in
back of them. I seldom see anyone look behind them before reclining,
or recline slowly instead of all at once, or even move the recline up
while eating. They just get on the plane, sit down, get airborne, and
BANG, straight back with the chair. It's like being on one of the
newer roller-coaster rides, where the bar comes back to lock you in -
you ain't going nowhere until the ride's over.

the recline on most domestic flights is very small -- those who talk
about someone reclining into their lap or locking them in are generally
exagerating



my comfort is however not less important than someone else's desire to
confiscate my space for their own comfort

I seldom recline my seat, and I can sleep sitting bolt upright - in
fact, I usually do. I find my flights less stressful when I don't try
to read, work, or etc on the plane. I just turn off like a switch. I
wake up when I feel the plane starting to descend.

I get a headache in those bolt upright seats with the curved forward
tops -- a little recline is essential to my comfort

I care about the recline and never take a seat that doesn't if I can
help it -- -- if someone sticks a wedge in MY SEAT, then the wedge will
be removed [just as the suitcase that someone in the seat ahead of me
had placed in my footspace was removed]

I suspect that most people won't know that the wedge is in there -
they'll just assume that the seat is broken and/or won't recline after
trying a few times. Heck, most idjits don't even know you can't bring
yer flame-thrower on the plane anymore.

probably so -- but not now that it is being publized [I will have to
stop with the flamethrower I guess] but now if my seat is 'broken' I
will know to check

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

In article ,
"Frank F. Matthews" wrote:

Your concept of what space you own is interesting. I'll simply ignore
you. Attempting to crush my knees may result in reflex responses which
may fold your seat completely. FFM

you bullies are so cute -- of course the world belongs to you including
the space other people have paid for because well, just because you are
you


Jenn wrote:

In article ,
mrtravel wrote:


The Bill Mattocks wrote:

I guess this item was an idea whose time had come - now, I wonder if
it will be welcomed, or banned? Interesting concept, as this issue is
quite polarizing. Myself, I'm one of those who seldom reclines his
seat, and would respond affirmatively to a request by the person
behind me to raise my seat if my reclining bothered them. Others here
on r.t.a. have voiced their opinion that it is their seat to recline
or not recline as they see fit.

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.



exactly -- the person who bought the seat owns the recline space-- most
people me included will do our best to accomodate someone who has a
legitimate problem e.g. the pregnant woman, the very tall guy with
serious knee space problems -- but upright seats are intensely badly
designed and uncomfortable and many people are fairly miserable in them

my comfort is however not less important than someone else's desire to
confiscate my space for their own comfort

I care about the recline and never take a seat that doesn't if I can
help it -- -- if someone sticks a wedge in MY SEAT, then the wedge will
be removed [just as the suitcase that someone in the seat ahead of me
had placed in my footspace was removed]

In article ,
"Bob Myers" wrote:

"mrtravel" wrote in message
om...

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.


I agree, but I still might buy the device. Here's why.

If I have such a device on there, and I'm asked to remove it by the
passenger in front of me, I would comply politely. But there have been
far too many time when I have, for instance, almost lost my dinner, drink
or (far worse!) laptop screen to some unthinking clod who just threw
the seat back into full-recline without looking. If this little piece of
plastic prevented a broken LCD, it would be more than worth it!

Bob M.



I think we can all agree that it is rude to recline suddenly -- without
checking -- it should be slow in any case and not during meals

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Frank F. Matthews" wrote:

Your concept of what space you own is interesting. I'll simply ignore
you. Attempting to crush my knees may result in reflex responses which
may fold your seat completely. FFM

you bullies are so cute -- of course the world belongs to you including
the space other people have paid for because well, just because you are
you


Jenn wrote:

In article ,
mrtravel wrote:


The Bill Mattocks wrote:

I guess this item was an idea whose time had come - now, I wonder if
it will be welcomed, or banned? Interesting concept, as this issue
is
quite polarizing. Myself, I'm one of those who seldom reclines his
seat, and would respond affirmatively to a request by the person
behind me to raise my seat if my reclining bothered them. Others
here
on r.t.a. have voiced their opinion that it is their seat to recline
or not recline as they see fit.

I agree with the guy that said if you want more space then pay for it.
To me, my space includes the area that might seat reclines into.
if I need to rest, and I am more comfortable reclining, I recline.



exactly -- the person who bought the seat owns the recline space--
most
people me included will do our best to accomodate someone who has a
legitimate problem e.g. the pregnant woman, the very tall guy with
serious knee space problems -- but upright seats are intensely badly
designed and uncomfortable and many people are fairly miserable in
them

my comfort is however not less important than someone else's desire to
confiscate my space for their own comfort

I care about the recline and never take a seat that doesn't if I can
help it -- -- if someone sticks a wedge in MY SEAT, then the wedge
will
be removed [just as the suitcase that someone in the seat ahead of me
had placed in my footspace was removed]


The recline is so little that if a very tall person or anyone with a problem
caused by my recline asks me to I will graciously refrain from using it. If
I see they have inserted a wedge I will have the f.a. remove it and sit
reclined until landing. And if you want to sit in the bulkhead seats don't
even think about putting your **** under your seat in my foot and carry-on
space. A little common courtesy can make long flights more pleasant for
everyone.

Ryan

Frank F. Matthews writes
My only problem is why the gymnastics. Why not just poke the guy in
front and ask him to fold his seat. If no response then fold it for
him. FFM

Because the guy in front has every right to recline his seat?

Because poking people and pushing their seat upright is rude and
obnoxious?

Because some people get quite annoyed when someone is rude and obnoxious
to them?
--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Jenn wrote:
the recline on most domestic flights is very small -- those who talk
about someone reclining into their lap or locking them in are generally
exagerating

Plus the greatest movement in the incline is well above the knee level.