Effect of CO2 increase on oysters and and mussels.

`
The general public is not aware that CO2 when it disolves in water forms
carbonic acid, the equilibrium constant is weak, H2CO3 = H(+) + HCO3(-)
but the acidity of water is increased in proportion to the amound of
CO2 in the water. "The ocean-surface pH has been reduced by about 0.1
during the past two centuries. Using ISAM, the researchers found ocean pH
would decline a total of 0.31 by the end of this century, if carbon-dioxide
emissions continue on a trajectory to ultimately stabilize at 1,000 parts
per million. During the last 200 years, the concentration of atmospheric
carbon dioxide increased from about 275 parts per million to about 380 parts
per million. Unchecked, it could surpass 550 parts per million by
mid-century."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-rog030807.php

Below is an article in Le Monde which reports experiment work
indicates that oyster and mussel production will be strongly
affected if not wiped out.

****

Huîtres et moules vont pâtir de l'acidification des océans
LE MONDE | 19.03.07 | 14h32


La concentration du gaz carbonique (CO2) dans les eaux superficielles des
océans augmente, et avec elle l'acidité de ce milieu. Les conséquences de
cette acidification pour les organismes marins tels que le corail, le
plancton, les algues et nombre de micro-organismes à coquille risquent
d'être dévastatrices : le calcaire dont est constitué leur squelette est
plus difficile à former lorsque le pH de l'eau baisse.


Pour certains mollusques d'intérêt commercial, telles l'huître ou la moule,
l'impact ne sera pas non plus anodin, comme le montre une étude à paraître
dans la revue Geophysical Research Letters. En modifiant la concentration en
CO2 dans des aquariums abritant des moules comestibles (Mytilus edulis) et
des huîtres du Pacifique (Crassostrea gigas), une équipe internationale a
constaté que la vitesse de fabrication des coquilles était respectivement
diminuée de 25 % et 10 % lorsqu'on atteignait un taux de CO2 correspondant à
un scénario moyen prévu pour 2100.

"Il s'agit de mesures à court terme, note Jean-Pierre Gattuso, du
laboratoire d'océanographie de Villefranche-sur-Mer (CNRS, université
Pierre-et-Marie-Curie), cosignataire de l'article. On ignore si cela
conduira à une croissance plus lente, à une coquille plus fragile, ou si
cela induira un mécanisme d'adaptation à long terme."

L'aquaculture des mollusques représente un marché mondial annuel de 7,9
milliards d'euros. Outre leur intérêt commercial, ces animaux jouent un rôle
de filtration des eaux. Leur déclin aurait un impact sur l'ensemble des
écosystèmes côtiers.
Hervé Morin

On 19 mar, 17:05, Earl Evleth wrote:
`
The general public is not aware that CO2 when it disolves in water forms
carbonic acid, the equilibrium constant is weak, H2CO3 = H(+) + HCO3(-)
but the acidity of water is increased in proportion to the amound of
CO2 in the water. "The ocean-surface pH has been reduced by about 0.1
during the past two centuries. Using ISAM, the researchers found ocean pH
would decline a total of 0.31 by the end of this century, if carbon-dioxide
emissions continue on a trajectory to ultimately stabilize at 1,000 parts
per million. During the last 200 years, the concentration of atmospheric
carbon dioxide increased from about 275 parts per million to about 380 parts
per million. Unchecked, it could surpass 550 parts per million by
mid-century."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-rog030807.php

Below is an article in Le Monde which reports experiment work
indicates that oyster and mussel production will be strongly
affected if not wiped out.

****

Huîtres et moules vont pâtir de l'acidification des océans
LE MONDE | 19.03.07 | 14h32

La concentration du gaz carbonique (CO2) dans les eaux superficielles des
océans augmente, et avec elle l'acidité de ce milieu. Les conséquences de
cette acidification pour les organismes marins tels que le corail, le
plancton, les algues et nombre de micro-organismes à coquille risquent
d'être dévastatrices : le calcaire dont est constitué leur squelette est
plus difficile à former lorsque le pH de l'eau baisse.

Pour certains mollusques d'intérêt commercial, telles l'huître ou la moule,
l'impact ne sera pas non plus anodin, comme le montre une étude à paraître
dans la revue Geophysical Research Letters. En modifiant la concentration en
CO2 dans des aquariums abritant des moules comestibles (Mytilus edulis) et
des huîtres du Pacifique (Crassostrea gigas), une équipe internationale a
constaté que la vitesse de fabrication des coquilles était respectivement
diminuée de 25 % et 10 % lorsqu'on atteignait un taux de CO2 correspondant à
un scénario moyen prévu pour 2100.

"Il s'agit de mesures à court terme, note Jean-Pierre Gattuso, du
laboratoire d'océanographie de Villefranche-sur-Mer (CNRS, université
Pierre-et-Marie-Curie), cosignataire de l'article. On ignore si cela
conduira à une croissance plus lente, à une coquille plus fragile, ou si
cela induira un mécanisme d'adaptation à long terme."

L'aquaculture des mollusques représente un marché mondial annuel de 7,9
milliards d'euros. Outre leur intérêt commercial, ces animaux jouent un rôle
de filtration des eaux. Leur déclin aurait un impact sur l'ensemble des
écosystèmes côtiers.
Hervé Morin

More of evleth's junk science. You don't read or understand the French
language pops and you cited an article doesn't say at all what you
claim

First) There is no mention in the French article of the historical
change of dissolved CO2 in the oceans in last 200 years.

Second) Who was taking those mysterious measurements 200 years ago?

Third) The French "experiment" was conducted in an aquarium! The
world's oceans are not aquaria!

Fourth) Who are you evleth to assert what is the ideal concentration
of minerals in the oceans?

Of course, please heed that evleth is NOT the general public.
Then his subject has not much to do with travel , but has he already cared
about that before ??
And of course iceman, padraig and a few others will say we are the crap and
this man is the good one, even though the state of this group is thanks to
his work and a few others.
Get along evleth, consult your lawyer as you've been hinting, try just once
sending one more abuse...
Just once.



"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
`
The general public is not aware that CO2 when it disolves in water forms
carbonic acid, the equilibrium constant is weak, H2CO3 = H(+) + HCO3(-)
but the acidity of water is increased in proportion to the amound of
CO2 in the water. "The ocean-surface pH has been reduced by about 0.1
during the past two centuries. Using ISAM, the researchers found ocean pH
would decline a total of 0.31 by the end of this century, if
carbon-dioxide
emissions continue on a trajectory to ultimately stabilize at 1,000 parts
per million. During the last 200 years, the concentration of atmospheric
carbon dioxide increased from about 275 parts per million to about 380
parts
per million. Unchecked, it could surpass 550 parts per million by
mid-century."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-rog030807.php

Below is an article in Le Monde which reports experiment work
indicates that oyster and mussel production will be strongly
affected if not wiped out.

****

Huîtres et moules vont pâtir de l'acidification des océans
LE MONDE | 19.03.07 | 14h32


La concentration du gaz carbonique (CO2) dans les eaux superficielles des
océans augmente, et avec elle l'acidité de ce milieu. Les conséquences de
cette acidification pour les organismes marins tels que le corail, le
plancton, les algues et nombre de micro-organismes à coquille risquent
d'être dévastatrices : le calcaire dont est constitué leur squelette est
plus difficile à former lorsque le pH de l'eau baisse.


Pour certains mollusques d'intérêt commercial, telles l'huître ou la
moule,
l'impact ne sera pas non plus anodin, comme le montre une étude à paraître
dans la revue Geophysical Research Letters. En modifiant la concentration
en
CO2 dans des aquariums abritant des moules comestibles (Mytilus edulis) et
des huîtres du Pacifique (Crassostrea gigas), une équipe internationale a
constaté que la vitesse de fabrication des coquilles était respectivement
diminuée de 25 % et 10 % lorsqu'on atteignait un taux de CO2 correspondant
à
un scénario moyen prévu pour 2100.

"Il s'agit de mesures à court terme, note Jean-Pierre Gattuso, du
laboratoire d'océanographie de Villefranche-sur-Mer (CNRS, université
Pierre-et-Marie-Curie), cosignataire de l'article. On ignore si cela
conduira à une croissance plus lente, à une coquille plus fragile, ou si
cela induira un mécanisme d'adaptation à long terme."

L'aquaculture des mollusques représente un marché mondial annuel de 7,9
milliards d'euros. Outre leur intérêt commercial, ces animaux jouent un
rôle
de filtration des eaux. Leur déclin aurait un impact sur l'ensemble des
écosystèmes côtiers.
Hervé Morin

Some wishing to be informed individual asked:

First) There is no mention in the French article of the historical
change of dissolved CO2 in the oceans in last 200 years.

That was dealt with in the article (also cited)

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-rog030807.php

"The ocean-surface pH has been reduced by about 0.1 during the past two
centuries. Using ISAM, the researchers found ocean pH would decline a total
of 0.31 by the end of this century, if carbon-dioxide emissions continue on
a trajectory to ultimately stabilize at 1,000 parts per million."

Unknown to you is the fact that the pH acidity scale is logarithmic,
and a 0.3 change in pH corresponds to a doubling of the acidity
content of the ocean. The lower the pH value, the higher the acidity.

Second) Who was taking those mysterious measurements 200 years ago?

A basic misunderstanding on your part. Historical CO2 concentrations
are measured from ice core samples, in some cases the use of "proxies".
The proxies are also employed to estimate the temperatures in the past,
The very accurate measurements of atmospheric CO2 content only began
in about 1958 (Mauna Loa). Ocean CO2 content vary with depth
and temperature. Where the water is cold the content is higher,
it drops with temperature increase but increases with the CO2
partial pressure in the atmosphere (see
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...GLODAP_DIC.png)
Historical CO2 content is measured from oxygen isotopic ratios
(one of the proxies) which are less accurate than direct measurements.
There were no "whos" measuring the CO2 content 200 million years ago.
The "whos" are alive now measuring it from the various records nature
provides us.


Third) The French "experiment" was conducted in an aquarium! The
world's oceans are not aquaria!

Right, since there are no oceans now with pHs as high as projected.
They, of course use ocean water for the tests but with upped the CO2
content. This technique is also used in certain forest growth studies
by tenting an area and feeding in more CO2 that is in the air.

I am happy to be of service.

You are not of service and you are not a happy man.
We cannot help you and you do not want and deserve to be helped.
Pauvre vieillard nullissime !

"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Some wishing to be informed individual asked:

First) There is no mention in the French article of the historical
change of dissolved CO2 in the oceans in last 200 years.

That was dealt with in the article (also cited)

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-rog030807.php

"The ocean-surface pH has been reduced by about 0.1 during the past two
centuries. Using ISAM, the researchers found ocean pH would decline a
total
of 0.31 by the end of this century, if carbon-dioxide emissions continue
on
a trajectory to ultimately stabilize at 1,000 parts per million."

Unknown to you is the fact that the pH acidity scale is logarithmic,
and a 0.3 change in pH corresponds to a doubling of the acidity
content of the ocean. The lower the pH value, the higher the acidity.

Second) Who was taking those mysterious measurements 200 years ago?

A basic misunderstanding on your part. Historical CO2 concentrations
are measured from ice core samples, in some cases the use of "proxies".
The proxies are also employed to estimate the temperatures in the past,
The very accurate measurements of atmospheric CO2 content only began
in about 1958 (Mauna Loa). Ocean CO2 content vary with depth
and temperature. Where the water is cold the content is higher,
it drops with temperature increase but increases with the CO2
partial pressure in the atmosphere (see
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...GLODAP_DIC.png)
Historical CO2 content is measured from oxygen isotopic ratios
(one of the proxies) which are less accurate than direct measurements.
There were no "whos" measuring the CO2 content 200 million years ago.
The "whos" are alive now measuring it from the various records nature
provides us.


Third) The French "experiment" was conducted in an aquarium! The
world's oceans are not aquaria!

Right, since there are no oceans now with pHs as high as projected.
They, of course use ocean water for the tests but with upped the CO2
content. This technique is also used in certain forest growth studies
by tenting an area and feeding in more CO2 that is in the air.

I am happy to be of service.

evleth, your ignorance is astounding. Paeloclimatology is just one
tool in attempting to forcast long term climatic changes; using CO2
concentrations in ice core samples is so simple minded when one
ignores other fossil records, bogs, tree rings, etc. You assertion
ignores aberrant events like volcanic eruptions, droughts, meteor
impacts, etc. A 200 year record of CO2 concentrations in ice cores is
nothing when one considers the age of the earth. evleth you are the
poster fool for junk science

evleth, your ignorance is astounding. Paleoclimatology is just one
tool in attempting to forecast long term climatic changes; using CO2
concentrations in ice core samples is so simple minded when one
ignores other fossil records, bogs, tree rings, etc. You assertion
ignores aberrant events like volcanic eruptions, droughts, meteor
impacts, etc. A 200 year record of CO2 concentrations in ice cores is
nothing when one considers the age of the earth. evleth you are the
poster fool for junk science

A confused person wrote

Paleoclimatology is just one
tool in attempting to forecast long term climatic changes; using CO2
concentrations in ice core samples is so simple minded when one
ignores other fossil records, bogs, tree rings, etc.

The ice cores have samples of trapped gases from the age level they
are taken from. So that is not even a proxy in that sense, but
a direct measurement and the most accurate one.

Proxy methods have greater inaccuracies. For instance
from the study

"A 300-million-year record of atmospheric carbon dioxide from fossil plant
cuticles." the author writes

"These results are consistent with some reconstructions of past CO2 and
palaeotemperature records, but suggest that CO2 reconstructions based on
carbon isotope proxies may be compromised by episodic outbursts of
isotopically light methane."

The scatter seen in the CO2 estimates over the last 500 million years
is high. You can assign the numbers as "high" prior to 400 million
years ago, intermediate and low. The lows occurred recently and
at the end the carboniferous period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:P...on_Dioxide.png

Proxy methods are aproxy-ment!

You assertion ignores aberrant events like volcanic
eruptions, droughts, meteor impacts, etc.
A 200 year record of CO2 concentrations in ice cores is
nothing when one considers the age of the earth.

Ice core samples go back now 650,000 years not 200! Any sudden
releases of CO2 are seen in peaks in the CO2 curve
and none have been seen since the year 1000. Of course
there have been volcanic releases but they are short term
in their effect in recent times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...ide_400kyr.png

Nor have any huge meteor impacts been reported since 1000. Droughts,
all the time, but no effect since the year 1000.

Thank you for your interest. I hope this clears up some
areas of your lack of knowledge in this subject.