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Delta 767s



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 19th, 2004, 12:43 AM
Bruce Davis
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Default Delta 767s

Ft. Myers is a particularly busy destination for DL. If you look at the
timetable for RSW, virtually all of DL's flights are on 767 a/c. The Ft.
Myers/Naples area is popular with wealthy Americans and Canadians who will
pay a premium for good service on comfortable aircraft. Another factor is
the congestion at the present RSW terminal. Ft. Myers is building an
entirely new and much larger terminal across the field from the present
terminal. There is just no room for larger numbers of smaller aircraft.
  #12  
Old March 19th, 2004, 08:37 AM
Ken Ishiguro
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Default Delta 767s


"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in
message ...

Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number

of
cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the

winglets
have been removed.


Actually the winglets are added on the -400, not removed on the -400D.
Nit-picky, just interesting that Boeing manuals show the winglets as the
optional configuration.

As background, specing out an airplane is a balancing act between reducing
weight and maintaining an economical life. Overall cycles are more

important
than hours on an airframe (engines can be replaced).


ANA and JAL both find the economic crossover point between cycles and
airframe life, and at some point convert the aircraft from domestic to
longhaul configuration. Winglets are added, and some but not all extra
structure is removed.

Ken Ishiguro


  #13  
Old March 19th, 2004, 09:07 AM
Ken Ishiguro
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Default Domestic versions (was: Delta 767s)


"Jim Anderson" wrote in message
news

Anyone have the numbers on the empty weight of a "stock" -400 and a
"stock" -400D?

Difficult to do a direct comparison. Here are the figures for a -400
and -400D with GE engines. The -400 assumes a 400 pax configuration and
the -400D assumes 624 pax:

Max Gross T/O Weight: 836,000 600,000
Max Struct. Payload wt: 140,912 134,370
Operating empty weight: 394,088 400,630

Note that the -400D is about 6,500 pounds heavier and this means the same
reduction in payload. Although the D has 224 more seats in this comparison,
it will have fewer galleys and other "monuments". Also note that cycle life
is increased by reducing allowable MGTOW, even though the aircraft is
totally capable of taking off at 836,000 pounds. This is presumably done by
reducing fuel load....if you "do the math" on these numbers, the -400 allows
301,000 pounds of fuel at max payload where the -400D is 65,000 pounds.
This is about 15 hours and 3 hours of fuel, respectively.

Ken Ishiguro


  #14  
Old March 19th, 2004, 04:04 PM
Not the Karl Orff
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Default Delta 767s

In article Usx6c.11510$xg.9345@fed1read04,
"Ken Ishiguro" wrote:

"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in
message ...

Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number

of
cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the

winglets
have been removed.


Actually the winglets are added on the -400, not removed on the -400D.
Nit-picky, just interesting that Boeing manuals show the winglets as the
optional configuration.


-400s are allowed to operate with one or no winglets too (not part of
the MEL)



  #15  
Old March 19th, 2004, 04:24 PM
Jim Anderson
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Default Domestic versions (was: Delta 767s)


"Ken Ishiguro" wrote in message
news:jUx6c.11512$xg.1968@fed1read04...

"Jim Anderson" wrote in message
news

Anyone have the numbers on the empty weight of a "stock" -400 and a
"stock" -400D?

Difficult to do a direct comparison. Here are the figures for a -400
and -400D with GE engines. The -400 assumes a 400 pax configuration and
the -400D assumes 624 pax:

Max Gross T/O Weight: 836,000 600,000
Max Struct. Payload wt: 140,912 134,370
Operating empty weight: 394,088 400,630

Note that the -400D is about 6,500 pounds heavier and this means the same
reduction in payload. Although the D has 224 more seats in this
comparison,
it will have fewer galleys and other "monuments". Also note that cycle

life
is increased by reducing allowable MGTOW, even though the aircraft is
totally capable of taking off at 836,000 pounds. This is presumably done

by
reducing fuel load....if you "do the math" on these numbers, the -400

allows
301,000 pounds of fuel at max payload where the -400D is 65,000 pounds.
This is about 15 hours and 3 hours of fuel, respectively.


Ken -

Thanks for the details. Can you highlight what structural changes have been
made to the D? Is the gear beefier? Pressure vessel differences? Are any
of the modifcations "removable" to decrease the wieght if the airline wants
to move the short haul airframe to long haul?

J


  #16  
Old March 19th, 2004, 06:53 PM
Mike Lechnar
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Posts: n/a
Default Delta 767s



Not the Karl Orff wrote:

In article Usx6c.11510$xg.9345@fed1read04,
"Ken Ishiguro" wrote:

"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." 73115 dot 1041 at compuserve dot com wrote in
message ...

Some structural parts have been beefed up to handle the additional number

of
cycles that happen when operated in a domestic route structure, and the

winglets
have been removed.


Actually the winglets are added on the -400, not removed on the -400D.
Nit-picky, just interesting that Boeing manuals show the winglets as the
optional configuration.


-400s are allowed to operate with one or no winglets too (not part of
the MEL)


Nope.

The winglets and tip extensions are part of the basic 747-400 package.
They are removed for the 747-400D. They may also be installed on the
-400D once as part of a conversion to long-haul flying.

The MEL permits flying with one winglet missing only. There are enroute
penalties.

Mike Lechnar
"If I was speaking for Boeing, I wouldn't be doing it here."
  #17  
Old March 19th, 2004, 07:18 PM
Not the Karl Orff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Delta 767s

In article ,
Mike Lechnar wrote:


The MEL permits flying with one winglet missing only. There are enroute
penalties.


Thanks. I knew that one wnglet (damaged in accident and removed) is
allowed. I thought 2 removed is allowed.
  #18  
Old March 20th, 2004, 03:17 PM
Michael
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Default Delta 767s

I've also heard that Delta uses the 777 on the Atlanta-Orlando route
to give long haul 777 pilots seat time. Apparently they need a
certain number of take-offs and landings before they can command the
big bird on a long haul flight. I live in Orlando, and fly Delta 8-10
times a year, and generally connect through Atlanta. I always try to
get the flight with the 777, but every time, they have had an
equipment substitution and I end up on one of these old 767-400's.
FWIW, I think ATL-MCO is a high density route only because so many
vacationers flying Delta connect in ATL.

Michael

On 15 Mar 2004 10:47:07 -0800, (jrk011)
wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message ...
We just booked a flight from BWI to Fort Myers Fl with Delta. The flight out
is 1593 and stops in Atlanta. The return is two different flights with the
change in Atlanta. What surprises me is that all four segments are on 767s.
Why would Delta use such a large plane on such short runs??


High occupancy on that particular route?

I've seen Delta using 777s on the Atlanta-Orlando stretch, which
is even shorter than Atlanta--Ft.Myers.


thanks
frank


Best, jrk


 




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