Simple question about ID

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:12:50 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:

[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :

On Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:48 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:

[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :

On Tue, 12 May 2009 23:08:15 -0400, Brian K
wrote:

On 5/11/2009 11:31 PM Steve "tweaked" on too much Starbucks said:

12 days from our family Eastern Caribbean cruise...

On our only previous cruise, the kids were young and none of us had
passports back then (5 years ago). The required proof of ID was a
photo ID and birth certificate.

Now, the kids are adults and we all have passports. I just seems
obvious that if we all have our passport, we shouldn't need anything
else. I keep looking at the Carnival information and they are still
talking about birth certificates. For the life of me, I can't find a
place where they flat out say we don't need our birth certificates if
we have passports. We should also all have our driver's licenses with us.

Can someone here confirm that it's safe to leave the birth
certificates home this time?

Steve
That's Carnival for ya'! In order to get a passport you had to produce
an offecal birth certificate. So, your Passport is by it's nature also
your offecal birth certifikake.

Nope. A birth certificate shows where you were born, which in in lex
solis countries like the US is prima facie evidence of citizenship. A
birth certificate doesn't help prove US citizenship if you weren't
born in the US.

Um, look at your passport.

We're talking about birth certificates, not passports.

Mine says:
Place of birth/Lieu de naissance/Lugar de nacimento
Hawaii, USA


for the nitpicky, I will be 53 on the 19th (Juneteenth). Hawai'i will
be 50 a few weeks after that. So I was (according to my birth
certificate) born in the Terrirtory of Hawai'i.

Hawaii is an complicated case because of its changing status over the
years - an independent kingdom, a quasi-independent republic, an
annexed territory of the United States. and finally a state. But it
was a part of the US when you were born.

If you have a US birth certificate, you are a citizen. No way around
it. If you were born on US soil, you are a citizen.

It's not easy, but you can renounce US citizenship.

See "Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship" at

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_776.html


Most nations outside of the US recognize dual citizens if the child is
born to citizens (both) of the country. I have a neighbor who is a US
citizen and Crown Subject. She holds both passports. Born in Dallas.


And I assume that the US, like Canada, occasionally issues
passports to non-citizens.

I'm looking, but can't find it. If you are an immigrant status
(either RA or refugee), you are given another document, formerly known
as the green card and still called that, although long since a dozen
other coloers.

For example, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis:

"Six American diplomats did however avoid capture and
found refuge at the nearby Canadian and Swiss embassies
in Tehran for three months. They fled Iran using Canadian
passports on January 28, 1980."

They had Canadian passports and they were not Canadian citizens. As I
said, I assume that the US does the same thing occasionally.

Don't assume. I have not been able to find any evidence that the US
will issue a passport to a non citizen.

Try the United States Code, Title 22, Chapter 4, Section 212, "Persons
entitled to passport".

Also see the Wikipedia article on United States passports.

On 6/1/2009 10:54 PM Jack Hamilton conferred with the ghost of Faye
Wray and said:
On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:12:50 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:


[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :


On Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:48 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:


[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :


On Tue, 12 May 2009 23:08:15 -0400, Brian K
wrote:


On 5/11/2009 11:31 PM Steve "tweaked" on too much Starbucks said:

12 days from our family Eastern Caribbean cruise...

On our only previous cruise, the kids were young and none of us had
passports back then (5 years ago). The required proof of ID was a
photo ID and birth certificate.

Now, the kids are adults and we all have passports. I just seems
obvious that if we all have our passport, we shouldn't need anything
else. I keep looking at the Carnival information and they are still
talking about birth certificates. For the life of me, I can't find a
place where they flat out say we don't need our birth certificates if
we have passports. We should also all have our driver's licenses with us.

Can someone here confirm that it's safe to leave the birth
certificates home this time?

Steve

That's Carnival for ya'! In order to get a passport you had to produce
an offecal birth certificate. So, your Passport is by it's nature also
your offecal birth certifikake.

Nope. A birth certificate shows where you were born, which in in lex
solis countries like the US is prima facie evidence of citizenship. A
birth certificate doesn't help prove US citizenship if you weren't
born in the US.

Um, look at your passport.


We're talking about birth certificates, not passports.


Mine says:
Place of birth/Lieu de naissance/Lugar de nacimento
Hawaii, USA


for the nitpicky, I will be 53 on the 19th (Juneteenth). Hawai'i will
be 50 a few weeks after that. So I was (according to my birth
certificate) born in the Terrirtory of Hawai'i.


Hawaii is an complicated case because of its changing status over the
years - an independent kingdom, a quasi-independent republic, an
annexed territory of the United States. and finally a state. But it
was a part of the US when you were born.


If you have a US birth certificate, you are a citizen. No way around
it. If you were born on US soil, you are a citizen.


It's not easy, but you can renounce US citizenship.

See "Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship" at

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_776.html



Most nations outside of the US recognize dual citizens if the child is
born to citizens (both) of the country. I have a neighbor who is a US
citizen and Crown Subject. She holds both passports. Born in Dallas.


And I assume that the US, like Canada, occasionally issues
passports to non-citizens.

I'm looking, but can't find it. If you are an immigrant status
(either RA or refugee), you are given another document, formerly known
as the green card and still called that, although long since a dozen
other coloers.

For example, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis:

"Six American diplomats did however avoid capture and
found refuge at the nearby Canadian and Swiss embassies
in Tehran for three months. They fled Iran using Canadian
passports on January 28, 1980."

They had Canadian passports and they were not Canadian citizens. As I
said, I assume that the US does the same thing occasionally.

Don't assume. I have not been able to find any evidence that the US
will issue a passport to a non citizen.


Try the United States Code, Title 22, Chapter 4, Section 212, "Persons
entitled to passport".

Also see the Wikipedia article on United States passports.



Wow! A simple question..."What a long strange trip it's been..." -
Greatfull Dead

Considering US popularity with terrorists, White Slavers in Istanbul,
Banditos in Northern Mexico Border Towns and The French, I can't think
of any reason why a non-US Citizen would want a US Passport.

--
________
To email me, Edit "blog" from my email address.
Brian M. Kochera
"The poor dog is the firmest friend, the first to welcome the foremost to defend" - Lord Byron
View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:12:50 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:

[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :

On Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:48 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:

[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :

On Tue, 12 May 2009 23:08:15 -0400, Brian K
wrote:

On 5/11/2009 11:31 PM Steve "tweaked" on too much Starbucks said:

12 days from our family Eastern Caribbean cruise...

On our only previous cruise, the kids were young and none of us had
passports back then (5 years ago). The required proof of ID was a
photo ID and birth certificate.

Now, the kids are adults and we all have passports. I just seems
obvious that if we all have our passport, we shouldn't need anything
else. I keep looking at the Carnival information and they are still
talking about birth certificates. For the life of me, I can't find a
place where they flat out say we don't need our birth certificates if
we have passports. We should also all have our driver's licenses with us.

Can someone here confirm that it's safe to leave the birth
certificates home this time?

Steve
That's Carnival for ya'! In order to get a passport you had to produce
an offecal birth certificate. So, your Passport is by it's nature also
your offecal birth certifikake.

Nope. A birth certificate shows where you were born, which in in lex
solis countries like the US is prima facie evidence of citizenship. A
birth certificate doesn't help prove US citizenship if you weren't
born in the US.

Um, look at your passport.

We're talking about birth certificates, not passports.


Correct. I misread the statement. Although I recently noticed that
birth certificates issued in Spain indicate the citizenship of both
parents. But, once again, that may not prove your citizenship, as a
child born of a parent who is a citizen by extraction is not a
citizen. A former boss told me that.

Mine says:
Place of birth/Lieu de naissance/Lugar de nacimento
Hawaii, USA


for the nitpicky, I will be 53 on the 19th (Juneteenth). Hawai'i will
be 50 a few weeks after that. So I was (according to my birth
certificate) born in the Terrirtory of Hawai'i.

Hawaii is an complicated case because of its changing status over the
years - an independent kingdom, a quasi-independent republic, an
annexed territory of the United States. and finally a state. But it
was a part of the US when you were born.

Yeah. I've had some trouble getting a copy of my certificate. I have
one, but it's roughly 53 years old an is s photostatic copy. But the
state says for records prior to 1961, I have to present myself in
person. Damn, I have to go to Hawai'i!


If you have a US birth certificate, you are a citizen. No way around
it. If you were born on US soil, you are a citizen.

It's not easy, but you can renounce US citizenship.

See "Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship" at

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_776.html


Yeah. I knew a guy who did that. Of course, he did it in Moscow, in
1968. Technically, he faces the death sentence (deserter). Not
likely, though.


Most nations outside of the US recognize dual citizens if the child is
born to citizens (both) of the country. I have a neighbor who is a US
citizen and Crown Subject. She holds both passports. Born in Dallas.


And I assume that the US, like Canada, occasionally issues
passports to non-citizens.

I'm looking, but can't find it. If you are an immigrant status
(either RA or refugee), you are given another document, formerly known
as the green card and still called that, although long since a dozen
other coloers.

For example, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis:

"Six American diplomats did however avoid capture and
found refuge at the nearby Canadian and Swiss embassies
in Tehran for three months. They fled Iran using Canadian
passports on January 28, 1980."

They had Canadian passports and they were not Canadian citizens. As I
said, I assume that the US does the same thing occasionally.

Don't assume. I have not been able to find any evidence that the US
will issue a passport to a non citizen.

Try the United States Code, Title 22, Chapter 4, Section 212, "Persons
entitled to passport".

Okay, thank you.


Also see the Wikipedia article on United States passports.

"Facts" in Wikipedia aren't worth the paper they're written on.


--

- dillon I am not invalid

Approximately 75,000 years ago, the supervolcano Toba
erupted, In 24 hours, it ejected enough material to fill
the area inside the DC Beltway over a kilometer deep.
Good idea, bad timing,

[Default] Thus spake Brian K :

On 6/1/2009 10:54 PM Jack Hamilton conferred with the ghost of Faye
Wray and said:
On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:12:50 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:


[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :


On Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:48 -0500, Dillon Pyron
wrote:


[Default] Thus spake Jack Hamilton :


On Tue, 12 May 2009 23:08:15 -0400, Brian K
wrote:


On 5/11/2009 11:31 PM Steve "tweaked" on too much Starbucks said:

12 days from our family Eastern Caribbean cruise...

On our only previous cruise, the kids were young and none of us had
passports back then (5 years ago). The required proof of ID was a
photo ID and birth certificate.

Now, the kids are adults and we all have passports. I just seems
obvious that if we all have our passport, we shouldn't need anything
else. I keep looking at the Carnival information and they are still
talking about birth certificates. For the life of me, I can't find a
place where they flat out say we don't need our birth certificates if
we have passports. We should also all have our driver's licenses with us.

Can someone here confirm that it's safe to leave the birth
certificates home this time?

Steve

That's Carnival for ya'! In order to get a passport you had to produce
an offecal birth certificate. So, your Passport is by it's nature also
your offecal birth certifikake.

Nope. A birth certificate shows where you were born, which in in lex
solis countries like the US is prima facie evidence of citizenship. A
birth certificate doesn't help prove US citizenship if you weren't
born in the US.

Um, look at your passport.


We're talking about birth certificates, not passports.


Mine says:
Place of birth/Lieu de naissance/Lugar de nacimento
Hawaii, USA


for the nitpicky, I will be 53 on the 19th (Juneteenth). Hawai'i will
be 50 a few weeks after that. So I was (according to my birth
certificate) born in the Terrirtory of Hawai'i.


Hawaii is an complicated case because of its changing status over the
years - an independent kingdom, a quasi-independent republic, an
annexed territory of the United States. and finally a state. But it
was a part of the US when you were born.


If you have a US birth certificate, you are a citizen. No way around
it. If you were born on US soil, you are a citizen.


It's not easy, but you can renounce US citizenship.

See "Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship" at

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_776.html



Most nations outside of the US recognize dual citizens if the child is
born to citizens (both) of the country. I have a neighbor who is a US
citizen and Crown Subject. She holds both passports. Born in Dallas.


And I assume that the US, like Canada, occasionally issues
passports to non-citizens.

I'm looking, but can't find it. If you are an immigrant status
(either RA or refugee), you are given another document, formerly known
as the green card and still called that, although long since a dozen
other coloers.

For example, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis:

"Six American diplomats did however avoid capture and
found refuge at the nearby Canadian and Swiss embassies
in Tehran for three months. They fled Iran using Canadian
passports on January 28, 1980."

They had Canadian passports and they were not Canadian citizens. As I
said, I assume that the US does the same thing occasionally.

Don't assume. I have not been able to find any evidence that the US
will issue a passport to a non citizen.


Try the United States Code, Title 22, Chapter 4, Section 212, "Persons
entitled to passport".

Also see the Wikipedia article on United States passports.



Wow! A simple question..."What a long strange trip it's been..." -
Greatfull Dead

We used to play that game at parties, sometime around 2 am. "How did
this conversation get here?"


Considering US popularity with terrorists, White Slavers in Istanbul,
Banditos in Northern Mexico Border Towns and The French, I can't think
of any reason why a non-US Citizen would want a US Passport.

Welfare.

There's a story floating around (I heard it from a FOAF :-)
An illegal went to a flea market and bought a fake Social Security
card and driver's license and then went ot the employment office to
claim unemployment. He spent another 6 months in Texas as a "guest"
before returning to Mexico/Honduras/Guatamala/Costa Rica. Like I
said, FOAF story. AKA BS, probably. But it's funny.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

Approximately 75,000 years ago, the supervolcano Toba
erupted, In 24 hours, it ejected enough material to fill
the area inside the DC Beltway over a kilometer deep.
Good idea, bad timing,