night train from Paris to London?

Besides taking the eurostar from Paris to Waterloo station in London,
is there also a slower night train from Paris to London, eg. taking
the eurail train? If there is, I would appreciate more info about it,
eg. how long it takes, fare for return trip, where to buy the tickets
in Paris?

On 20 Feb 2004 17:28:46 -0800, (skep) wrote:

Besides taking the eurostar from Paris to Waterloo station in London,
is there also a slower night train from Paris to London, eg. taking
the eurail train? If there is, I would appreciate more info about it,
eg. how long it takes, fare for return trip, where to buy the tickets
in Paris?

There is no train other than the Eurostar. If you're on a Eurailpass,
I suggest getting a train up to Cherbourg in the North of France and
getting a ferry over to Ireland. You can get a train to Dublin from
the Rosslare port (takes a couple of hours) with a Eurailpass... I did
this last year and highly recommend it!

"skep" wrote in message
om...
Besides taking the eurostar from Paris to Waterloo station in London,
is there also a slower night train from Paris to London, eg. taking
the eurail train? If there is, I would appreciate more info about it,
eg. how long it takes, fare for return trip, where to buy the tickets
in Paris?
If you're trying to save money, you could take the bus (www.eurolines.fr)
but to be honest there's not a lot of difference in price - the best promo
return I could find on their site was EUR55 and the best Eurostar promo fare
Paris-London-Paris is EUR69. That EUR14 buys you one hell of a lot quicker
and more comfortable journey !

Nick

On 20 Feb 2004 17:28:46 -0800 skep said...

Besides taking the eurostar from Paris to Waterloo station in London,
is there also a slower night train from Paris to London, eg. taking
the eurail train? If there is, I would appreciate more info about it,
eg. how long it takes, fare for return trip, where to buy the tickets
in Paris?

As others have said, no night time connection. If you have time on your
side and don't mind spending most of the daytime travelling, you can see
rail/sea/rail connections between Paris and London at:

www.seat61.com/France.htm

An alternative, budget option which is better would be the Eurolines
coach:

www.eurolines.com

--
Phil Richards
London

"Phil Richards" wrote in message
T...
On 20 Feb 2004 17:28:46 -0800 skep said...

Besides taking the eurostar from Paris to Waterloo station in London,
is there also a slower night train from Paris to London, eg. taking
the eurail train? If there is, I would appreciate more info about it,
eg. how long it takes, fare for return trip, where to buy the tickets
in Paris?

As others have said, no night time connection. If you have time on your
side and don't mind spending most of the daytime travelling, you can see
rail/sea/rail connections between Paris and London at:

www.seat61.com/France.htm

But the impression I got from the OP was that the purpose of going overnight
was to save a night's accomodation, so spending most of the day travelling
won't be attractive. If that really was the motive, then the best bet is
probably Paris to Caen, Cherbourg or Le Havre, then the overnight ferry,
then train to London from Portsmouth or Southampton. Probably not cheap,
though.

Regards

Jonathan

"Jonathan Morton" wrote in message
...

But the impression I got from the OP was that the purpose of going
overnight
was to save a night's accomodation, so spending most of the day travelling
won't be attractive. If that really was the motive, then the best bet is
probably Paris to Caen, Cherbourg or Le Havre, then the overnight ferry,
then train to London from Portsmouth or Southampton. Probably not cheap,
though.

Yes, it could be done this way. One unfortunate result of the opening of the
tunnel is that rail/sea crossings have been significantly reduced.

It was initially intended that there would be night services, and the
sleeping cars were actually built, but the operators subsequently decided
that there was no market. I think they cocked up by aiming exclusively at
the top-end "business" market (e.g. carriages with en suite toilets in each
cabin), rather than the cheap and cheerful couchette cars which are so
popular in continental Europe. (OK, they would probably have to be four-bed
compartments in the UK, because of the restricted loading gauge.) The other
thing that was dropped was the intended through services from northern and
central England. The tunnel is absurdly under-used, and this may be a result
of the limited service - you can start from anywhere provided it's London or
Ashford and go to anywhere provided it's Fretun (occasionally), Lille,
Brussels or Paris. Now, imagine getting the sleeper from Inverness to
Palermo!

Alan Harrison

"Alan Harrison" wrote in message
...

It was initially intended that there would be [channel tunnel] night
services, and the
sleeping cars were actually built, but the operators subsequently decided
that there was no market. I think they cocked up by aiming exclusively at
the top-end "business" market (e.g. carriages with en suite toilets in
each
cabin), rather than the cheap and cheerful couchette cars which are so
popular in continental Europe. (OK, they would probably have to be
four-bed
compartments in the UK, because of the restricted loading gauge.) The
other
thing that was dropped was the intended through services from northern and
central England. The tunnel is absurdly under-used, and this may be a
result
of the limited service - you can start from anywhere provided it's London
or
Ashford and go to anywhere provided it's Fretun (occasionally), Lille,
Brussels or Paris. Now, imagine getting the sleeper from Inverness to
Palermo!

Absolutely! The Nightstar stock ended up in Canada IIRC. This whole "it's a
railway but we're going to foul it up by importing many of the worst
features of air travel" thing is ridiculous, and a combination of
over-zealous safety and xenophobic attitude of British immigration/customs,
to which I am ashamed to say we submit in a far too craven manner.

Jonathan

"Alan Harrison" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Morton" wrote in
message
...

But the impression I got from the OP was that the purpose of going
overnight
was to save a night's accomodation, so spending most of the day
travelling
won't be attractive. If that really was the motive, then the best bet is
probably Paris to Caen, Cherbourg or Le Havre, then the overnight ferry,
then train to London from Portsmouth or Southampton. Probably not cheap,
though.

Yes, it could be done this way. One unfortunate result of the opening of
the
tunnel is that rail/sea crossings have been significantly reduced.

It was initially intended that there would be night services, and the
sleeping cars were actually built, but the operators subsequently decided
that there was no market. I think they cocked up by aiming exclusively at
the top-end "business" market (e.g. carriages with en suite toilets in
each
cabin), rather than the cheap and cheerful couchette cars which are so
popular in continental Europe.

The original plan also had sleeperetts (is that right? - The reclining seats
that they have on CNL trains).

(OK, they would probably have to be four-bed
compartments in the UK, because of the restricted loading gauge.) The
other
thing that was dropped was the intended through services from northern and
central England.

This was more the problem. There was never any intention that night
services would usefully run from London to Paris. They were to run
from provinical UK to Paris and from London to other European
destinations (like frankfurt). There were also to be earlier connections
at Calais into other continental destinations.

None of this happened, I wonder why?

tim


The tunnel is absurdly under-used, and this may be a result
of the limited service - you can start from anywhere provided it's London
or
Ashford and go to anywhere provided it's Fretun (occasionally), Lille,
Brussels or Paris. Now, imagine getting the sleeper from Inverness to
Palermo!

Alan Harrison

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:48:18 +0000 (UTC) Alan Harrison
said...

Yes, it could be done this way. One unfortunate result of the opening of the
tunnel is that rail/sea crossings have been significantly reduced.

Since Eurostar has come along, dedicated "boat trains" from London etc.
to the Channel ports have been done away with along with the "Maritime"
stations (allowing easy train to ferry interchange) at places like Dover
and Calais have been closed. However there are still numerous connections
possible with a relatively good frequency of trains (especially on the UK
side of the Channel) and boat connections still available. However it is
a combination of the unreliability of connections, poor end to end
journey times (compared to Eurostar) and the almost non-existence of
through tickets that has almost "killed" the traditional London-Dover-
Calais-Paris service off.

It was initially intended that there would be night services, and the
sleeping cars were actually built, but the operators subsequently decided
that there was no market.

As others have said, there was never any intention of running a London to
Paris "Nightstar" service through the tunnel. No point when Eurostar
could do it in 3 hours (now 2 hours 35) during the daytime. Until 1980
there used to be the Night Ferry service where through sleepers between
London and Paris (also Brussels plus Basel at one point IIRC) crossing
via the Dover to Dunkerque train ferry.

--
Phil Richards
London

Phil Richards a écrit dans le message :
...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:48:18 +0000 (UTC) Alan Harrison
said...

Yes, it could be done this way. One unfortunate result of the opening of
the
tunnel is that rail/sea crossings have been significantly reduced.

Since Eurostar has come along, dedicated "boat trains" from London etc.
to the Channel ports have been done away with along with the "Maritime"
stations (allowing easy train to ferry interchange) at places like Dover
and Calais have been closed.

Dedicated Boat Trains and Maritime Railway stations closed down on 27th
September 1994. Yet, Eurostar services only started on 14th November with a
very low frequency (2 Paris-London, 1 Brussels-London, both lines on a
5-weekly basis). Maybe Boat Trains should have run for a further service,
until 28th May 1995...


However there are still numerous connections
possible with a relatively good frequency of trains (especially on the UK
side of the Channel) and boat connections still available. However it is
a combination of the unreliability of connections,

Whereas Boat Trains usually waited for delayed ferry passengers...



poor end to end
journey times (compared to Eurostar) and the almost non-existence of
through tickets

Interrailers and Passholders may still have a good point in using the
Train+Boat combination, though...


that has almost "killed" the traditional London-Dover-
Calais-Paris service off.

There are no more through services Paris-Calais via Amiens. Only a handful
of TGV (or Eurostars calling at Fréthun)

The withdrawal of a vast amount of overnighters from Calais/Oostende to
quite many places all other Europe (Southern France, Switzerland, Germany,
Austria, Italy) has also weakened market potential.


It was initially intended that there would be night services, and the
sleeping cars were actually built, but the operators subsequently
decided
that there was no market.

As others have said, there was never any intention of running a London to
Paris "Nightstar" service through the tunnel.

Not necessarily. Some of the plans for the Paris-Corwall/South Wales
overnighter actually contemplated a revenue stop at London-Waterloo
Intenational, at around 06:00 and 23:30...


No point when Eurostar
could do it in 3 hours (now 2 hours 35) during the daytime.

But when running southbound, journey times are actually longer than one
hour. Unless you get up very early to catch the 05.37 to Paris-Nord, gone is
your morning...


Until 1980
there used to be the Night Ferry service where through sleepers between
London and Paris (also Brussels plus Basel at one point IIRC) crossing
via the Dover to Dunkerque train ferry.

Still a big pity that SNCF, SNCB and BR did not come to terms to buy a few
RIC-compliant SLE-Mk3s in the early-80s...


Best regards.

Phil