British and North American equivalents

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:47:56 +0000 (UTC), Alan Pollock
wrote:

In rec.travel.usa-canada Keith Crossley wrote:

My opinion: (1) Roundabouts are such a simple, quick and easy way to get
folks through a not over-busy intersection. I hate sitting at traffic
lights (the more pervasive US affliction) looking at an empty road. (2)
Standards of driving and courtesy vary dramatically. Comparing them, it is
a joy to drive in the UK where people actually drive in appropriate lanes
and give you room.


In California we have loads and loads of 4-way stops and not so many traffic
lights (where you can turn right on a red, left on a one-way red).

4-way stops work well here. First in first out no matter what the rulebook may
say. Completely dependant on judgement and courtesy, folks seem to be inately
polite. Those few who aren't, take advantage but it's not the end of the
world; they're just allowed to make fools of themselves. I've seen peer
pressure eventually get them where it hurts when an acquaintance spies them in
the act. Ouch. Solid kick to the social plexus! (Okok, guilty as charged but
only once)

Might not work in a place like France where fistfights could break out (et ta
soeur, PAFF!), or in Italy where they'd get out of their cars, stand 2.837
meters apart and with arms outstretched, fingers and hands deftly imitating
all sorts of barnyard animals, yell interminable verbiage at each other
replete with historical, geographic and even in-depth ancestral analysis.

But here it works fine. Might in Britain too, but they chose the easy way out:
the roundabout where judgement and courtesy play a much smaller role.

Perhaps they're not *quite* civilized enough? Nex

I was in San Francisco when the Loma Prieta earthquake struck, at
commute time, no less. All the traffic signals were out so the
old rule that when a traffic signal is out treat the intersection
as a four-way stop took effect. It was probably the fastest I'd
ever got across San Francisco.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In rec.travel.usa-canada Hatunen wrote:

I was in San Francisco when the Loma Prieta earthquake struck, at
commute time, no less. All the traffic signals were out so the
old rule that when a traffic signal is out treat the intersection
as a four-way stop took effect. It was probably the fastest I'd
ever got across San Francisco.


Wow!

How did folks behave at the intersections? Was it all pretty fluid? Nex

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:49:21 +0000 (UTC), Alan Pollock
wrote:

In rec.travel.usa-canada Hatunen wrote:

I was in San Francisco when the Loma Prieta earthquake struck, at
commute time, no less. All the traffic signals were out so the
old rule that when a traffic signal is out treat the intersection
as a four-way stop took effect. It was probably the fastest I'd
ever got across San Francisco.


Wow!

How did folks behave at the intersections? Was it all pretty fluid? Nex

Like I say, everyone treated the intersections as four-way stops,
and politely yielded in a way that kept traffic flowing through
the intersections.

There were a couple of intersections where a civilian got into
the center and directed traffic like a cop. It worked
surprisingly well. Of course, I figure the obvious disater
scenario had everyone on their best behavior.

All I wanted to do was get home to Daly City, but for obvious
reasons was trying to avoid freeways and surface routes that
required going through an underpass. At that point I still didn't
know about the Cypress freeway or the Bay Bridge.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Haunted wrote on Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:55:20 -0700:

?? In rec.travel.use-Canada Haunted wrote:
??
?? I was in San Francisco when the Loma Prieta earthquake
?? struck, at commute time, no less. All the traffic signals
?? were out so the old rule that when a traffic signal is
?? out treat the intersection as a four-way stop took
?? effect. It was probably the fastest I'd ever got across
?? San Francisco.
??
?? Wow!
??
?? How did folks behave at the intersections? Was it all
?? pretty fluid? Nex

H Like I say, everyone treated the intersections as four-way
H stops, and politely yielded in a way that kept traffic
H flowing through the intersections.

H There were a couple of intersections where a civilian got
H into the center and directed traffic like a cop. It worked
H surprisingly well. Of course, I figure the obvious disater
H scenario had everyone on their best behavior.

H All I wanted to do was get home to Daly City, but for
H obvious reasons was trying to avoid freeways and surface
H routes that required going through an underpass. At that
H point I still didn't know about the Cypress freeway or the
H Bay Bridge.

The four-way stop is not really meant for heavy traffic and,
with all four roads occupied, I would expect quite a lot of
handwaving since it would be hard to decide who was first in to
be first out. I'll bet the traffic did not move very fast!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.Silverton.at.venison.not

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:52:27 GMT, "James Silverton"
wrote:

Haunted wrote on Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:55:20 -0700:

?? In rec.travel.use-Canada Haunted wrote:
??
?? I was in San Francisco when the Loma Prieta earthquake
?? struck, at commute time, no less. All the traffic signals
?? were out so the old rule that when a traffic signal is
?? out treat the intersection as a four-way stop took
?? effect. It was probably the fastest I'd ever got across
?? San Francisco.
??
?? Wow!
??
?? How did folks behave at the intersections? Was it all
?? pretty fluid? Nex

H Like I say, everyone treated the intersections as four-way
H stops, and politely yielded in a way that kept traffic
H flowing through the intersections.

H There were a couple of intersections where a civilian got
H into the center and directed traffic like a cop. It worked
H surprisingly well. Of course, I figure the obvious disater
H scenario had everyone on their best behavior.

H All I wanted to do was get home to Daly City, but for
H obvious reasons was trying to avoid freeways and surface
H routes that required going through an underpass. At that
H point I still didn't know about the Cypress freeway or the
H Bay Bridge.

The four-way stop is not really meant for heavy traffic and,
with all four roads occupied, I would expect quite a lot of
handwaving since it would be hard to decide who was first in to
be first out. I'll bet the traffic did not move very fast!

It moved better at the intersections I traveled through than it
had with the signals working. Although I confess that ain't
saying much as to how well it moved, given the normal state of
San Fracisco traffic.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Alan Pollock wrote in article
:

In rec.travel.usa-canada Keith Crossley wrote:

My opinion: (1) Roundabouts are such a simple, quick and easy way to get
folks through a not over-busy intersection. I hate sitting at traffic
lights (the more pervasive US affliction) looking at an empty road. (2)
Standards of driving and courtesy vary dramatically. Comparing them, it is
a joy to drive in the UK where people actually drive in appropriate lanes
and give you room.

In California we have loads and loads of 4-way stops and not so many traffic
lights (where you can turn right on a red, left on a one-way red).

Wouldn't that be true much more in the rural parts of California rather
than in the urban areas? Where I live you don't often see a four-way
stop in an area where a tourist would likely be traveling--they're
mostly in suburban residential areas. Mainline traffic is almost always
signal-controlled, though when a signal fails traffic defaults to the
four-way stop rule.

As for roundabouts, they can be paralyzing during heavy traffic hours,
which is the more pervasive (urban) US condition, but otherwise do
smooth the traffic flow.

4-way stops work well here. First in first out no matter what the rulebook may
say. Completely dependant on judgement and courtesy, folks seem to be inately
polite. Those few who aren't, take advantage but it's not the end of the
world; they're just allowed to make fools of themselves. I've seen peer
pressure eventually get them where it hurts when an acquaintance spies them in
the act. Ouch. Solid kick to the social plexus! (Okok, guilty as charged but
only once)

But here it works fine. Might in Britain too, but they chose the easy way out:
the roundabout where judgement and courtesy play a much smaller role.
--
Don Kirkman

Hatunen wrote:
I was in San Francisco when the Loma Prieta earthquake struck

Some information (and more) about the San Andreas Fault and Loma
Prieta Earthquake may be found at

http://geocities.com/touringsfo/Articles/SAndreas.html

--
__________________________________________________ _________________
A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
TouringSFO: http://geocities.com/touringsfo/ - IClast @ Gmail.com

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