Report on Mali and Burkina Faso (a bit long !)

Hello ng reader,
finally we can contribuite to this ng as well.
The intent of these notes is to provide some tips and practical
information based on our journey to Mali and Burkina Faso so
essentially to answer questions like:

- Is it possible to organize the trip independently or do you need to
go through a travel agency?
- How much would xxx cost?
- Is it easy to hire an 4x4?
- How long does it take to go from A to B

We hope that in this may help you avoid the mistakes we have made.

We would suggest you refer to your chosen travel guide for detailed
descriptions of places, hotels and restaurants. We only add that from
experience French travel guides seem to be more detailed than other
guides including the Lonely Planet

We went to Mali in December simply because this suited all the
participants to the trip. However it seems that the best time to
travel to West Africa is from the end of October to the beginning of
November. However even in the December the weather was fine and we
enjoyed it very much.

At the beginning we considered various options including joining a
travel organisations specialising in West Africa . Eventually and
thanks to the advice of other travellers, we realised that we could
easily organise everything independently. We got in touch with an
organisation of independent travellers called “Argonauti”.
This organisation provides practical information based on travels
which their members have already done. The organisation is a
volunteer-based, non profit organisation. The information that we got
from them was in relation to possible itineraries and tips on what to
see. You will find it below .
We got the impression that the “Argonauti” was really a
valid organisation providing some very valuable advice.

We flew Royal Maroc from Rome with stop in Casablanca. We left on 17
December and arrived in Bamako at 2.00 in the morning. Our worries
that we may not find transportation from the airport into town
vanished the moment we stepped into airport in Bamako: we were
immediately surrounded by people offering to change money (luckily we
had CFA 5,000 which Giuliana and Italian girl met at Casablanca had
given us) , people offering to carry your luggage and a real crowd of
taxidrivers vying to get you into their taxis. Please remember that
there are no such things as meters here so it would be advisable to
agree the price before getting into the taxi. There were four of us
and we paid CFA 5,000 to get into town. It seems that taxi tariffs
may vary in relation to how many passengers there are. We gave the
taxi driver the address of where we were staying: a B&B which we had
found on the internet (www. . be). Maritu, the owner is a very nice
and friendly lady. The room itself was also not bad. The place was
clean and well kept. The bathroom had a Turkish style toilet and cold
shower. The only real disadvantage was that it was far out of the
city centre which meant that we had to take taxis in to and back from
town. On the way from the airport we attempted to make some sort of
conversation with the taxidriver in our broken French. We told him
that we were planning to travel through Mali and Burkina Faso and that
we wanted to hire a 4x4. The following day, we thought that our
first priority would be to look for a car to hire. Before leaving
Italy I had found on www.malipages,ml a list of travel agencies which
we intended to contact on our arrival, but as it turned out we did
need to, because the taxidriver who the previous night had driven us
from the airport had spoken to a friend of his. News goes around very
quickly here… and both the taxidriver and his friend were
waiting for us outside the B&B. The taxidriver’s friend
introduced himself as an “Agent” or in his own words
“the best agent in whole of Mali and maybe the whole of West
Africa”. He would provide various services to tourists. He said
that he knew what we wanted and he could offer it at a very
competitive price. We had just arrived in Mali and did not really
have an idea of what the ongoing price for hiring a 4x4 was, so we
thought it best to base our negotiations (“haggling”) on
the prices given us by Roberto Pattarin, the representative of the
Argonauti, the travels organisation we had contacted in Italy. Back
in 1998, he had hired a good quality 4x4 and driver for CFA 60,000
per day, excluding petrol costs. Taking into consideration the
inflation we were aiming at agreeing a price of about CFA 65,000 per
day. We managed to agree this price and were also given a
“complimentary” extra day which means that had we been
harder negotiators we may have easily brought the price down to CFA
60,000. Later we found out that our dear “Agent” Abdalar
was only the friend of the owner of a car hire agency and that he
hardly knew the driver whom he had introduced to us as “his best
driver”. However despite all these “behind the
scene” manoeuvres, Lassi, the driver was indeed an able and
professional driver. Throughout the journey we had various
confirmations of this: Lassi is a good driver and a very reliable
person. He is always very cheerful, we can still hear his contagious
laughter. He has been a driver since 1987 and he seems to be very
well known throughout Mali. If you want to get in touch with him is
contact details are…… . Alternatively if you want to
hire a 4x4 for the whole or part of your journey your best option is
the “Hotel del Amitie”, the best known hotel in Bamako and
a meeting point for just-arrived- tourists and drivers looking for
work. You will find the contract signed with our “Agent “
attached below. We decided not to specify the whole itinerary and
allow ourselves to change the route if wanted to. The price of the
contract includes also CFA 300,000 representing the full living costs
(including accommodation, food, guides, taxes) in the Dogon region.
The Dogon region is considered a “distinct” territory.
Our advice would be to wait until you are in the Dogon area before
choosing your guide and your itinerary.
In Bamako our “Agent” had assured us that a
“reliable” guide would meet us in the Dogon region. Later
we found out that there was not such a person and that, unknown to us,
the instructions given to Lassi, our driver, were to hire any
“reliable” guide who would be cheap enough to hire. In
the Dogon region, we were “entrusted” to a local young man
who tried his best to explain whatever he knew about the Dogon
culture, but to really appreciate the Dogon we would advise to choose
a good local guide who has professional knowledge of Dogon’s
culture and traditions. These are totally different and often unknown
to other populations of Mali. In the bigger centres like Sanga,
there are some authorised professional guides who, presumably, should
be good.

Altogether we were in Bamako for three days. Before leaving we
stocked up on mineral water. We have paid 6000 CFA per carton of 12,
1.5 litre bottles. We left early in the morning and headed towards
Segou. We stopped on the way in a village called Fana, where we had
breakfast. It was strange to see the same types of shops you may have
in our countries: barber shops, photo shops petrol stations all in an
Africal style. What, in particular, attracted my attention was the
internet centres advertised outside tinned sheds while basic services
like running water or tarred streets were still missing. Maybe it is
the strange mix of cultures which creates this.

Our next stop was in Segou Koro (old Segou), a village few kilometres
away from Segou – town. Segou Koro is well worth a visit. I
would like to say a few words about the first impact visiting an
African village. As most of the western people who visit Africa for
the first time we were also full of generosity and good intentions. We
bought pens, colour pencils, medicines and whatever we thought could
be useful gifts for the locals. At the end of our visit of Segou Koro
we got the pens out of the car with the result of being literally
assailed by the kids who would vie to grab whatever they could. The
fact that some, for us, valueless pens would create such a reaction
really made us rethink about what we were doing. We quickly realised
that it was very patronising of us to go there feeling
“generous” for distributing pens. At the end of the day,
we are just tourists: we spend our one, two or three week holiday
there and then we go back to our comfortable lives. It is my opinion
that if we feel strongly about the situation maybe we should
contribute to or take part in one of the many NGOs projects which can
make a real difference to the lives of these people.

Segou Koro is really fascinating. It has probably left us such vivid
memories also because it was the first village visited in Mali.
There are two mosques in Segou Koro, one of them is really old. You
will often see in Mali that the four roof corners of a mosque are
decorated with emu’s eggs. Our Agent explained to us that this
is to remind God that although man resembles God, unlike God he is not
perfect, just like the emu, which although it resembles a bird, it is
not a bird and cannot fly. Unfortunately in Mali you are not allowed
to enter a mosque unless you are Muslim.

We arrived in Segou proper in the early afternoon. It took us
approximately 7 hours from Bamako including the two stops. The road
is in good conditions.
Segou is a quiet town, not too touristy, with a nice view on the
river. We stayed at the Hotel Auberge, a nice hotel owned by a
Lebanese. We paid 25 000 CFA per night for a triple room with
bathroom and hot water . As in all other stops throughout our
journey we were constantly surrounded by kids who wanted to sell
souvenirs and other goods. We went for day trips to Markala in the
morning to see a dyke. Initially we were not sure about this visit but
then the walk on the bridge and seeing the fishermen patiently waiting
for their catches and the nearby food market was worth the visit In
the afternoon we went to Farako which we reached by pinasse. From
Segou it takes about two hours to reach Farako. The village is famous
for its terracotta crafting. We arrived late in the afternoon when
the women were about to light the bonfires to cook the vases. The
people seem friendly as always. You had the feeling that the village
was not in the usual tourist itinerary: no souvenirs for sale, no one
who would invite you to visit his boutique or tried to sell you
something although this village is also mentioned in the Lonely
Planet. The pinasse cruise was organised by Modibo a bright young
man recommended by our “Agent” before he left Segou. We
paid 30 000 CFA (petrol included) for the pinasse trip. On the way,
Modibo and his friend, the captain of the pinasse made some African
tea for us: this is a sweet mint tea which you drink out of small
glasses. Our choices of restaurants for dinners were less
fortunate: we tried both restaurants: “Soleie de midi
Nuit” as well as “Arinae”, but the service in both
restaurants is somehow…slow (we waited 1.30 to be served) and
the food is nothing special. Other tourists have instead told us that
the restaurant at the Hotel Djoliba is a valid alternative. The next
stop was Djenne. We arrived on the Sunday, about one in the
afternoon. We left Segou at around 9 in the morning. We stayed at
“Le Campement”. The choice was not very fortunate. The
rooms were very basic, but that was not so much the problem, as it was
the atmosphere of the venue for “Sunday tourists”, a
feeling of snobbery and the very arrogant attitude of the owners of
the place who do not even try to hide their aim of sponging as much as
possible out of tourists. Le Campement is the most popular hotel in
town and therefore the entrance is always crowded with hangers out who
try to bully you into hiring a guide to take you around town on the
pretence that it is dangerous to walk around on your own. It is not,
it is safe to walk around at night even though not very practical if
you do not have a torch. Besides, you will never be alone, you will
always have someone walking along with you who will point you in the
right direction, tell you in which shops to stop. Take your time to
wander around the place, you will appreciate it more this way. We
did find a guide for ourselves or rather they found us: two bright
students who unlike the guides of “Le Campement” wanted
just to show us around and practice their English. They gave us good
advice, mostly disinterested advice. In Djenne we bought some
silver bijouterie and some very nice bogolans bought at the
“maison des femmes”.
Haggling in Mali is an art, each negotiation may take hours. You
start with a “premier prix”, the first price which none of
the two negotiators really expect to agree upon. This is followed by
a number of offers which tend towards a middle ground and eventually a
price acceptable to both parties. Monday is market day in Djenne.
Unlike other markets this starts quite late. We followed the advice
of our friend Pattarin of the Argonauti travelassociation: ie. Go
early in the morning of the market day to the entrance of town and
watch from there all the merchants arriving from the nearby villages.
We have done more than this. We left by horse cart at seven in the
morning to go and see a nearby Bozo village and drove back into Djenne
together with all the merchants who were making their way to the
market. I think this was probably one of the best experiences of our
stay in Mali both for the variety of people we have come across and
the authenticity of it all. To get to the Bozo village we had to
cross over a moat full of water which surrounds the hill upon which
the village is built. December is the dry period therefore the level
of the water is low but Yaya, one of our guiding students explained to
us that in the rainy seasons the whole area around Djenne is flooded
with water and it is a wonderful spectacle to see. The village is
really very beautiful and it is the natural end of the itinerary. On
the way back we drove along the line of carts and donkeys and bicycles
and people on foot all heading to the Djenne market. The market
itself is a colourful and dazzling event. You will find plenty of
information in your guidebooks about it. Amongst the various stalls
you will note some sell all types of western medicines. It made us
wonder where medicines which …. unwary Blanche (including us)
bring and distribute end to. We have noticed that quite often what
we expected would be distributed in reality ended up somewhere else.

The advice from the Argonauti was to try and make friends with the
market merchants and at the end of the market offer them to take them
back home thus getting the opportunity to have some time to talk to
the merchants and maybe see some off the track village. We,
however, decided to leave for Mopti in the early afternoon before the
market was over. There is only one road into and out of Djenne,
therefore, on our way to Mopti we drove back the same way we came for
the first part of our journey. On the way to Mopti we enjoy the
scenery, the bright colours and the rice pads.
When we arrived in Mopti we tried to stay at the Catholic Mission,
highly recommended in the Lonely Planet. Unfortunately the heavy 2002
rains damaged the buildings and the Mission will not take in any
guests until restorations works are completed. We eventually got
into the hotel “Le Fleu” a decent hotel a bit out of the
town centre. We did not like the restaurant.
Your travel guide will have comprehensive information on what to see
in Mopti. Wandering around town you will sooner or later end up in
the port among the overcrowded pinasses and the fish left out to dry.
We had a good look around the port and the surrounding area ( do not
miss the view from the Bar Bozo, maybe enjoying a cool drink at the
same time). We also had a trip on pinasse to two villages near Mopti.
They were a bit touristy but still worth seeing. In Mopti we also
needed to withdraw money on our credit cards. You can do this only
at BDM Bank in town (not the BDM in Sevare). Getting money out of
your account in Mopti is an incredibly lengthy and complicated
experience which involves handing out your passport and credit card to
an officious lady and sitting around a small waiting room together
with other unfortunate travellers for at least a couple of hours.
Sometimes you will see the same officious lady walking in and out of
the room holding passports and credit cards. It seems that she sends
a fax to the Visa Office in Marocco where your credit card details are
verified and approved. She will then call you into her office to
sign a yellow form where she had previously written God knows what.
Your name is eventually called out at the counter where you can
finally get your 300,000 CFA (this is the maximum amount you can
withdraw). You will be charged a flat fee of CFA 5000 to cover the
cost of the fax to Marocco and other handling fees. The good news is
that apparently you can avoid this palaver and get money in Bamako out
of any cash points! In our case, it was waiting for our money in
the BDM Bank in Mopti that we started chatting to some French
travellers: Nathalie, Laurent, Philippe and Marco who then became our
companions for the pinasse cruise to the Lac Debo. We all wanted to
go and see the Lac Debo so we decided to hire a pinasse all together.
The Lac is not often mentioned in travel guides but we highly
recommend the cruise. Negotiations for the hire of the Pinasse went
on for … hours but thanks to Marco we got a very good deal CFA
110,000 (we have attached a copy of the contract) the Pinassiere was
very good and professional despite the fact that we had substantially
reduced his initial offer. When we got to the Lac we realised that
there were no villages to be seen in the surrounding area apart from
one small fishing village (Gouma) whose inhabitants only spoke their
own dialect. This in itself is very unusual as most of the population
speak Dyoula (the common language widely spoken at least for
commercial purposes).

We spent the night of 24 December on the Lac Debo. There was no moon
and this enhanced the starry sky… unforgettable. We spent the
night around a bonfire, listening to the sounds of the crickets and
other small animals populating the area. On the way back we stopped
at a couple of villages on the river. The village of Duma was
probably the most beautiful. Here, the people would initially look at
us with curiosity. They would not assail us asking for presents, pens
and sweets as they do in more touristy areas. They welcomed us,
warmly as it often happens in Africa. We got off at Konna while the
rest of our group continued back to Mopti. At Konna it was market
day and the little quite village we had left on the way to Lac Debo
had transformed into a buzzing market with a multitude of pinasses,
people wearing the traditional colourful dresses and selling all sort
of goods and spices. Unfortunately we had little time to enjoy the
market as we had to set off for Timboctu. We stopped in Douetza
after dark. The road is not in the best condition and all together it
takes about 10 hours to get to Timboctu from Mopti. On the way to
Timboctu the scenery changes dramatically as we approach the desert.
Unlike what some travel guides say, Timboctu is worth the rough ride
to get there. Unfortunately for us, Timboctu is the place where we
got ripped off big time! Our only excuse is that we were tired after
the long drive and we did not have much time available. We arrived at
about one in the afternoon and were immediately approached by a
“friend” of our driver (pls remember that there is always
some tacit agreement between drivers and the local people, at the end
of the day we are only one-off tourists, the drivers instead will be
dealing with the locals on a regular basis – we cannot really
blame them for this). This particular “friend” told us
about an hotel. We asked for the price: 27,500 CFA the highest we
have ever paid in Mali, reluctantly we agreed. After this, we had
lunch and in the meantime this gentleman would list all all the
possible sightseeing visits. Unwisely we rushed into agreeing what he
proposed without shopping around. He also charged us CFA 5000 for
having the passports stamped (something which is no longer necessary
and if you wanted it done it is actually FREE!). He then rushed us
through the visit of the town providing very little explanations and
arranged for us to spend the night in a Tuareg camp with return on
camel’s back. (very tacky but there you are!) . This guy is so
slimy that I remember that when we were at the Timboctu Museum of
Musical Instruments, the director of the museum who spoke fluent
English was giving me some information on where to buy some
instruments at a good price. At this point our “friend”
broke into the conversation saying that he knew the best place to buy
musical instruments. He took us back to his house and introduced me
to a person who asked 15,000 CFA – “a special price”
– for an item I subsequently bought for 3,500 CFA. In short,
if you ever go to Timboctu please stay well away from a guide called
Ayouba a short, plumy, good mannered day-light robber! Amongst other
things he claims to be an official guide recommended by the Lonely
Planet! Later we found a Tuareg who goes to Timboctu every 15 days
to sell craftwork of his and other villages. We have bought a few nice
objects from him. The quality seems better than what we had seen
around the stalls. When he is in Timboctu, he is based with Koran
manager: Mossa Haidar, . He seemed to us a
honest and reliable guy.
All in all the stop in Timboctu was good and even more enjoyable for
the short stay in the desert with the Tuareg Chief of the village (in
reality you could not define it as “village”, since all
the huts are spread out across a very wide area). Were we to do this
again, we would, probably, allow more time for the excursion into the
desert and we would hopefully try and find a more honest guide.
Incidentally Mossa Haidar also mentioned to us that he can also
organise trips and go further into the desert to Tuareg villages a bit
further out from Timboctu
After Timboctu we went back South towards the Dogon region, going back
the way we came. If we were to travel to Mali again the only change
we would make to the itinerary is to go to Gao. The road to Gao,
although longer, is tarred. Furthermore this way we would visit
another place. On the way back we stopped again in Douentza. We went
to the market. This is probably the most beautiful market we have
seen in Mali. Although it is not very big it is definitely
tourist-free. We were the only tourists around. Wherever you go in
Mali you have to accept that there are two different prices: one for
the locals and one for the tourists. At the Douentza market, some
women obviously not used to dealing with tourists, were offering some
hand embroidered cloths at very good prices. However, when we were
about to pay some other merchants got involved ostensibly telling the
women off for having agreed such prices with tourists. Immediately
the price asked for the same cloths went up three times! Douentza
market was a good spot to stock up on bananas, papaya, dates and
various food before setting off for the Dogon region.
In the agreement with our “Manager” in Bamako it had been
agreed that all the expenses for the five day visit to the Dogon were
already included in the price agreed. This was not the cheapest of
choices but it turned out to be the most practical as we got rid of
the responsibility of having to agree transit tariffs, village taxes,
guide fees, accommodation costs etc. Lassi recommended to change the
itinerary slightly from what agreed with the “Mmanager”
and getting into the Dogon from the three cliff villages of Yuga. We
stopped at the campement “Baoab” at the foot of the cliff.
There are no services there other than the water pump but the place
and the scenery are absolutely fantastic! The next day we set off
climbing to visit Yuga na, Yuga Piri and Yuga yuga. It has probably
been the most interesting day in the Dogon region, maybe because
there are very little tourists around here or at least we have come
across very few of them, including a group of “Avventure nel
Mondo” an Italian package tour operator who crossed the cliff in
the opposite direction. I thing they had stayed in Sanga, something
which I would strongly advise against. When we drove past Sanga we
noticed the typical western style hotel. In Sanga we also gave the
director of the school library all the pens and colours and most of
the medicines we had. Subsequently the children told us that these
are not distributed to the children or whoever needs them but simply
resold.
I will not say anymore on the Dogon region. It has become the main
destination in Mali and therefore you will find a lot of reference
material on internet. I would only add that you may just as easily
go around the place without having to distribute cola nuts as it seems
the suggested “etiquette”. The price for these nuts vary
from 15 000 CFA per kilo to 5 000 CFA, if you decide to buy any I
would strongly advice to shop around before you make the final
decision. Furthermore I would also like to recommend the hotel
“Le Village” in Bandiagara, BP 35. This hotel is not
mentioned in travel guides but it offers a good and friendly service.
The manager’s wife is also a very good cook.

The next stop for us was in Burkina Faso. We crossed the border at
Koro. The passport checkings and other formalities took in all about
30 minutes. We did not even need the photos which we had been told
were required to obtain the visa and we took at Douentza. The total
costs for the entry visas for three persons was 40,000 CFA. Past the
border, we drove straight to Ouagadougu, the capital. We chose a
comfortable hotel as one of our travel companions had temperature,
this because of fatigue not malaria. Burkina Faso seemed to us more
advanced than Mali from an infrastructure point of view. The capital
has very little to offer in terms of sightseeing, with maybe the only
exception being the very interesting Music Museum which is worth a
visit with the assistance of the guide. Get ready to come across some
very aggressive vendors who will not take no for an answer. People
seemed to us less friendly that in Mali. Maybe it is just a feeling
but we felt a bit nervous walking around at night, a feeling which
did not have walking around at night in Bamako or Mopti. We spent
more time that planned in Ougadougu and we skipped the trips to
Tiebele and Gaua. Our next stop was Bobo Dioulasso. As we were
approaching Bobo we noticed how the vegetation was changing, becoming
more lavish and florid. This thanks to the abundance of water. We
visited the nearby waterfalls of .. and the lake of… - a day
trip from Bobo. At the lake we also managed to see the ears and the
tips of the noses of a family of hippoes who were taking refuge from
the heat in the water. We also saw large sugar and banana
plantations, miles and cocoa, the former a strong competitor to Ivory
Coast’s. Bobo is a lively place. There are also some drums
training schools where some Italian schools organise short or longer
stages. One of these is the Association “Siraba”.
Nights are very animated in Bobo with numerous activities and live
music being organised in various cafes and restaurants. The market is
also interesting. You can really find anything here. We went back to
Mali, to Bamako, driving past Sikasso which also seemed an interesting
place. We stayed at the … an hotel, fairly central run by a
Lebanese, less welcoming than the B&B of Maritu but with the advantage
of being closer to the centre. Don’t miss the Museum just
outside the centre in Av de la Liberete it is extremely interesting!
We spent the last day in the capital visiting the nearby Sibi.
On the way back to Italy we had a 5 hour stop in Casablanca and used
this time to catch the train into town and go and see the Grand Mosque
which is literally very big!. Beware the taxidrivers who will try not
to use the meter.

We hope we have given you some general information which you may find
useful if you have any queries we will be pleased to reply to you. You
may contact us:




Conclusions:
In short the trip can be made by anyone with a minimum of
adaptability. You can easily arrange everything as independent
travellers without having to rely on agencies. Take some pieces of
parmesan cheese with you will find useful in emergencies.

Massimo & Sonia & Remo

This trip sounds very interesting, and yes, I hope that a travel agent
or tour group is not required to visit these places. I'm curious
though, in the spirit of independent travel, why not simply take buses
and trains to your destinations? Lonely Planet indicates that bus and
minvan transport is quite good, even up into Mali, No?

Alan

(MassimoM) wrote in message . com...
Hello ng reader,
finally we can contribuite to this ng as well.
The intent of these notes is to provide some tips and practical
information based on our journey to Mali and Burkina Faso so
essentially to answer questions like:

- Is it possible to organize the trip independently or do you need to
go through a travel agency?
- How much would xxx cost?
- Is it easy to hire an 4x4?
- How long does it take to go from A to B

We hope that in this may help you avoid the mistakes we have made.

We would suggest you refer to your chosen travel guide for detailed
descriptions of places, hotels and restaurants. We only add that from
experience French travel guides seem to be more detailed than other
guides including the Lonely Planet

We went to Mali in December simply because this suited all the
participants to the trip. However it seems that the best time to
travel to West Africa is from the end of October to the beginning of
November. However even in the December the weather was fine and we
enjoyed it very much.

At the beginning we considered various options including joining a
travel organisations specialising in West Africa . Eventually and
thanks to the advice of other travellers, we realised that we could
easily organise everything independently. We got in touch with an
organisation of independent travellers called “Argonauti”.
This organisation provides practical information based on travels
which their members have already done. The organisation is a
volunteer-based, non profit organisation. The information that we got
from them was in relation to possible itineraries and tips on what to
see. You will find it below .
We got the impression that the “Argonauti” was really a
valid organisation providing some very valuable advice.

We flew Royal Maroc from Rome with stop in Casablanca. We left on 17
December and arrived in Bamako at 2.00 in the morning. Our worries
that we may not find transportation from the airport into town
vanished the moment we stepped into airport in Bamako: we were
immediately surrounded by people offering to change money (luckily we
had CFA 5,000 which Giuliana and Italian girl met at Casablanca had
given us) , people offering to carry your luggage and a real crowd of
taxidrivers vying to get you into their taxis. Please remember that
there are no such things as meters here so it would be advisable to
agree the price before getting into the taxi. There were four of us
and we paid CFA 5,000 to get into town. It seems that taxi tariffs
may vary in relation to how many passengers there are. We gave the
taxi driver the address of where we were staying: a B&B which we had
found on the internet (www. . be). Maritu, the owner is a very nice
and friendly lady. The room itself was also not bad. The place was
clean and well kept. The bathroom had a Turkish style toilet and cold
shower. The only real disadvantage was that it was far out of the
city centre which meant that we had to take taxis in to and back from
town. On the way from the airport we attempted to make some sort of
conversation with the taxidriver in our broken French. We told him
that we were planning to travel through Mali and Burkina Faso and that
we wanted to hire a 4x4. The following day, we thought that our
first priority would be to look for a car to hire. Before leaving
Italy I had found on www.malipages,ml a list of travel agencies which
we intended to contact on our arrival, but as it turned out we did
need to, because the taxidriver who the previous night had driven us
from the airport had spoken to a friend of his. News goes around very
quickly here… and both the taxidriver and his friend were
waiting for us outside the B&B. The taxidriver’s friend
introduced himself as an “Agent” or in his own words
“the best agent in whole of Mali and maybe the whole of West
Africa”. He would provide various services to tourists. He said
that he knew what we wanted and he could offer it at a very
competitive price. We had just arrived in Mali and did not really
have an idea of what the ongoing price for hiring a 4x4 was, so we
thought it best to base our negotiations (“haggling”) on
the prices given us by Roberto Pattarin, the representative of the
Argonauti, the travels organisation we had contacted in Italy. Back
in 1998, he had hired a good quality 4x4 and driver for CFA 60,000
per day, excluding petrol costs. Taking into consideration the
inflation we were aiming at agreeing a price of about CFA 65,000 per
day. We managed to agree this price and were also given a
“complimentary” extra day which means that had we been
harder negotiators we may have easily brought the price down to CFA
60,000. Later we found out that our dear “Agent” Abdalar
was only the friend of the owner of a car hire agency and that he
hardly knew the driver whom he had introduced to us as “his best
driver”. However despite all these “behind the
scene” manoeuvres, Lassi, the driver was indeed an able and
professional driver. Throughout the journey we had various
confirmations of this: Lassi is a good driver and a very reliable
person. He is always very cheerful, we can still hear his contagious
laughter. He has been a driver since 1987 and he seems to be very
well known throughout Mali. If you want to get in touch with him is
contact details are…… . Alternatively if you want to
hire a 4x4 for the whole or part of your journey your best option is
the “Hotel del Amitie”, the best known hotel in Bamako and
a meeting point for just-arrived- tourists and drivers looking for
work. You will find the contract signed with our “Agent “
attached below. We decided not to specify the whole itinerary and
allow ourselves to change the route if wanted to. The price of the
contract includes also CFA 300,000 representing the full living costs
(including accommodation, food, guides, taxes) in the Dogon region.
The Dogon region is considered a “distinct” territory.
Our advice would be to wait until you are in the Dogon area before
choosing your guide and your itinerary.
In Bamako our “Agent” had assured us that a
“reliable” guide would meet us in the Dogon region. Later
we found out that there was not such a person and that, unknown to us,
the instructions given to Lassi, our driver, were to hire any
“reliable” guide who would be cheap enough to hire. In
the Dogon region, we were “entrusted” to a local young man
who tried his best to explain whatever he knew about the Dogon
culture, but to really appreciate the Dogon we would advise to choose
a good local guide who has professional knowledge of Dogon’s
culture and traditions. These are totally different and often unknown
to other populations of Mali. In the bigger centres like Sanga,
there are some authorised professional guides who, presumably, should
be good.

Altogether we were in Bamako for three days. Before leaving we
stocked up on mineral water. We have paid 6000 CFA per carton of 12,
1.5 litre bottles. We left early in the morning and headed towards
Segou. We stopped on the way in a village called Fana, where we had
breakfast. It was strange to see the same types of shops you may have
in our countries: barber shops, photo shops petrol stations all in an
Africal style. What, in particular, attracted my attention was the
internet centres advertised outside tinned sheds while basic services
like running water or tarred streets were still missing. Maybe it is
the strange mix of cultures which creates this.

Our next stop was in Segou Koro (old Segou), a village few kilometres
away from Segou – town. Segou Koro is well worth a visit. I
would like to say a few words about the first impact visiting an
African village. As most of the western people who visit Africa for
the first time we were also full of generosity and good intentions. We
bought pens, colour pencils, medicines and whatever we thought could
be useful gifts for the locals. At the end of our visit of Segou Koro
we got the pens out of the car with the result of being literally
assailed by the kids who would vie to grab whatever they could. The
fact that some, for us, valueless pens would create such a reaction
really made us rethink about what we were doing. We quickly realised
that it was very patronising of us to go there feeling
“generous” for distributing pens. At the end of the day,
we are just tourists: we spend our one, two or three week holiday
there and then we go back to our comfortable lives. It is my opinion
that if we feel strongly about the situation maybe we should
contribute to or take part in one of the many NGOs projects which can
make a real difference to the lives of these people.

Segou Koro is really fascinating. It has probably left us such vivid
memories also because it was the first village visited in Mali.
There are two mosques in Segou Koro, one of them is really old. You
will often see in Mali that the four roof corners of a mosque are
decorated with emu’s eggs. Our Agent explained to us that this
is to remind God that although man resembles God, unlike God he is not
perfect, just like the emu, which although it resembles a bird, it is
not a bird and cannot fly. Unfortunately in Mali you are not allowed
to enter a mosque unless you are Muslim.

We arrived in Segou proper in the early afternoon. It took us
approximately 7 hours from Bamako including the two stops. The road
is in good conditions.
Segou is a quiet town, not too touristy, with a nice view on the
river. We stayed at the Hotel Auberge, a nice hotel owned by a
Lebanese. We paid 25 000 CFA per night for a triple room with
bathroom and hot water . As in all other stops throughout our
journey we were constantly surrounded by kids who wanted to sell
souvenirs and other goods. We went for day trips to Markala in the
morning to see a dyke. Initially we were not sure about this visit but
then the walk on the bridge and seeing the fishermen patiently waiting
for their catches and the nearby food market was worth the visit In
the afternoon we went to Farako which we reached by pinasse. From
Segou it takes about two hours to reach Farako. The village is famous
for its terracotta crafting. We arrived late in the afternoon when
the women were about to light the bonfires to cook the vases. The
people seem friendly as always. You had the feeling that the village
was not in the usual tourist itinerary: no souvenirs for sale, no one
who would invite you to visit his boutique or tried to sell you
something although this village is also mentioned in the Lonely
Planet. The pinasse cruise was organised by Modibo a bright young
man recommended by our “Agent” before he left Segou. We
paid 30 000 CFA (petrol included) for the pinasse trip. On the way,
Modibo and his friend, the captain of the pinasse made some African
tea for us: this is a sweet mint tea which you drink out of small
glasses. Our choices of restaurants for dinners were less
fortunate: we tried both restaurants: “Soleie de midi
Nuit” as well as “Arinae”, but the service in both
restaurants is somehow…slow (we waited 1.30 to be served) and
the food is nothing special. Other tourists have instead told us that
the restaurant at the Hotel Djoliba is a valid alternative. The next
stop was Djenne. We arrived on the Sunday, about one in the
afternoon. We left Segou at around 9 in the morning. We stayed at
“Le Campement”. The choice was not very fortunate. The
rooms were very basic, but that was not so much the problem, as it was
the atmosphere of the venue for “Sunday tourists”, a
feeling of snobbery and the very arrogant attitude of the owners of
the place who do not even try to hide their aim of sponging as much as
possible out of tourists. Le Campement is the most popular hotel in
town and therefore the entrance is always crowded with hangers out who
try to bully you into hiring a guide to take you around town on the
pretence that it is dangerous to walk around on your own. It is not,
it is safe to walk around at night even though not very practical if
you do not have a torch. Besides, you will never be alone, you will
always have someone walking along with you who will point you in the
right direction, tell you in which shops to stop. Take your time to
wander around the place, you will appreciate it more this way. We
did find a guide for ourselves or rather they found us: two bright
students who unlike the guides of “Le Campement” wanted
just to show us around and practice their English. They gave us good
advice, mostly disinterested advice. In Djenne we bought some
silver bijouterie and some very nice bogolans bought at the
“maison des femmes”.
Haggling in Mali is an art, each negotiation may take hours. You
start with a “premier prix”, the first price which none of
the two negotiators really expect to agree upon. This is followed by
a number of offers which tend towards a middle ground and eventually a
price acceptable to both parties. Monday is market day in Djenne.
Unlike other markets this starts quite late. We followed the advice
of our friend Pattarin of the Argonauti travelassociation: ie. Go
early in the morning of the market day to the entrance of town and
watch from there all the merchants arriving from the nearby villages.
We have done more than this. We left by horse cart at seven in the
morning to go and see a nearby Bozo village and drove back into Djenne
together with all the merchants who were making their way to the
market. I think this was probably one of the best experiences of our
stay in Mali both for the variety of people we have come across and
the authenticity of it all. To get to the Bozo village we had to
cross over a moat full of water which surrounds the hill upon which
the village is built. December is the dry period therefore the level
of the water is low but Yaya, one of our guiding students explained to
us that in the rainy seasons the whole area around Djenne is flooded
with water and it is a wonderful spectacle to see. The village is
really very beautiful and it is the natural end of the itinerary. On
the way back we drove along the line of carts and donkeys and bicycles
and people on foot all heading to the Djenne market. The market
itself is a colourful and dazzling event. You will find plenty of
information in your guidebooks about it. Amongst the various stalls
you will note some sell all types of western medicines. It made us
wonder where medicines which …. unwary Blanche (including us)
bring and distribute end to. We have noticed that quite often what
we expected would be distributed in reality ended up somewhere else.

The advice from the Argonauti was to try and make friends with the
market merchants and at the end of the market offer them to take them
back home thus getting the opportunity to have some time to talk to
the merchants and maybe see some off the track village. We,
however, decided to leave for Mopti in the early afternoon before the
market was over. There is only one road into and out of Djenne,
therefore, on our way to Mopti we drove back the same way we came for
the first part of our journey. On the way to Mopti we enjoy the
scenery, the bright colours and the rice pads.
When we arrived in Mopti we tried to stay at the Catholic Mission,
highly recommended in the Lonely Planet. Unfortunately the heavy 2002
rains damaged the buildings and the Mission will not take in any
guests until restorations works are completed. We eventually got
into the hotel “Le Fleu” a decent hotel a bit out of the
town centre. We did not like the restaurant.
Your travel guide will have comprehensive information on what to see
in Mopti. Wandering around town you will sooner or later end up in
the port among the overcrowded pinasses and the fish left out to dry.
We had a good look around the port and the surrounding area ( do not
miss the view from the Bar Bozo, maybe enjoying a cool drink at the
same time). We also had a trip on pinasse to two villages near Mopti.
They were a bit touristy but still worth seeing. In Mopti we also
needed to withdraw money on our credit cards. You can do this only
at BDM Bank in town (not the BDM in Sevare). Getting money out of
your account in Mopti is an incredibly lengthy and complicated
experience which involves handing out your passport and credit card to
an officious lady and sitting around a small waiting room together
with other unfortunate travellers for at least a couple of hours.
Sometimes you will see the same officious lady walking in and out of
the room holding passports and credit cards. It seems that she sends
a fax to the Visa Office in Marocco where your credit card details are
verified and approved. She will then call you into her office to
sign a yellow form where she had previously written God knows what.
Your name is eventually called out at the counter where you can
finally get your 300,000 CFA (this is the maximum amount you can
withdraw). You will be charged a flat fee of CFA 5000 to cover the
cost of the fax to Marocco and other handling fees. The good news is
that apparently you can avoid this palaver and get money in Bamako out
of any cash points! In our case, it was waiting for our money in
the BDM Bank in Mopti that we started chatting to some French
travellers: Nathalie, Laurent, Philippe and Marco who then became our
companions for the pinasse cruise to the Lac Debo. We all wanted to
go and see the Lac Debo so we decided to hire a pinasse all together.
The Lac is not often mentioned in travel guides but we highly
recommend the cruise. Negotiations for the hire of the Pinasse went
on for … hours but thanks to Marco we got a very good deal CFA
110,000 (we have attached a copy of the contract) the Pinassiere was
very good and professional despite the fact that we had substantially
reduced his initial offer. When we got to the Lac we realised that
there were no villages to be seen in the surrounding area apart from
one small fishing village (Gouma) whose inhabitants only spoke their
own dialect. This in itself is very unusual as most of the population
speak Dyoula (the common language widely spoken at least for
commercial purposes).

We spent the night of 24 December on the Lac Debo. There was no moon
and this enhanced the starry sky… unforgettable. We spent the
night around a bonfire, listening to the sounds of the crickets and
other small animals populating the area. On the way back we stopped
at a couple of villages on the river. The village of Duma was
probably the most beautiful. Here, the people would initially look at
us with curiosity. They would not assail us asking for presents, pens
and sweets as they do in more touristy areas. They welcomed us,
warmly as it often happens in Africa. We got off at Konna while the
rest of our group continued back to Mopti. At Konna it was market
day and the little quite village we had left on the way to Lac Debo
had transformed into a buzzing market with a multitude of pinasses,
people wearing the traditional colourful dresses and selling all sort
of goods and spices. Unfortunately we had little time to enjoy the
market as we had to set off for Timboctu. We stopped in Douetza
after dark. The road is not in the best condition and all together it
takes about 10 hours to get to Timboctu from Mopti. On the way to
Timboctu the scenery changes dramatically as we approach the desert.
Unlike what some travel guides say, Timboctu is worth the rough ride
to get there. Unfortunately for us, Timboctu is the place where we
got ripped off big time! Our only excuse is that we were tired after
the long drive and we did not have much time available. We arrived at
about one in the afternoon and were immediately approached by a
“friend” of our driver (pls remember that there is always
some tacit agreement between drivers and the local people, at the end
of the day we are only one-off tourists, the drivers instead will be
dealing with the locals on a regular basis – we cannot really
blame them for this). This particular “friend” told us
about an hotel. We asked for the price: 27,500 CFA the highest we
have ever paid in Mali, reluctantly we agreed. After this, we had
lunch and in the meantime this gentleman would list all all the
possible sightseeing visits. Unwisely we rushed into agreeing what he
proposed without shopping around. He also charged us CFA 5000 for
having the passports stamped (something which is no longer necessary
and if you wanted it done it is actually FREE!). He then rushed us
through the visit of the town providing very little explanations and
arranged for us to spend the night in a Tuareg camp with return on
camel’s back. (very tacky but there you are!) . This guy is so
slimy that I remember that when we were at the Timboctu Museum of
Musical Instruments, the director of the museum who spoke fluent
English was giving me some information on where to buy some
instruments at a good price. At this point our “friend”
broke into the conversation saying that he knew the best place to buy
musical instruments. He took us back to his house and introduced me
to a person who asked 15,000 CFA – “a special price”
– for an item I subsequently bought for 3,500 CFA. In short,
if you ever go to Timboctu please stay well away from a guide called
Ayouba a short, plumy, good mannered day-light robber! Amongst other
things he claims to be an official guide recommended by the Lonely
Planet! Later we found a Tuareg who goes to Timboctu every 15 days
to sell craftwork of his and other villages. We have bought a few nice
objects from him. The quality seems better than what we had seen
around the stalls. When he is in Timboctu, he is based with Koran
manager: Mossa Haidar, . He seemed to us a
honest and reliable guy.
All in all the stop in Timboctu was good and even more enjoyable for
the short stay in the desert with the Tuareg Chief of the village (in
reality you could not define it as “village”, since all
the huts are spread out across a very wide area). Were we to do this
again, we would, probably, allow more time for the excursion into the
desert and we would hopefully try and find a more honest guide.
Incidentally Mossa Haidar also mentioned to us that he can also
organise trips and go further into the desert to Tuareg villages a bit
further out from Timboctu
After Timboctu we went back South towards the Dogon region, going back
the way we came. If we were to travel to Mali again the only change
we would make to the itinerary is to go to Gao. The road to Gao,
although longer, is tarred. Furthermore this way we would visit
another place. On the way back we stopped again in Douentza. We went
to the market. This is probably the most beautiful market we have
seen in Mali. Although it is not very big it is definitely
tourist-free. We were the only tourists around. Wherever you go in
Mali you have to accept that there are two different prices: one for
the locals and one for the tourists. At the Douentza market, some
women obviously not used to dealing with tourists, were offering some
hand embroidered cloths at very good prices. However, when we were
about to pay some other merchants got involved ostensibly telling the
women off for having agreed such prices with tourists. Immediately
the price asked for the same cloths went up three times! Douentza
market was a good spot to stock up on bananas, papaya, dates and
various food before setting off for the Dogon region.
In the agreement with our “Manager” in Bamako it had been
agreed that all the expenses for the five day visit to the Dogon were
already included in the price agreed. This was not the cheapest of
choices but it turned out to be the most practical as we got rid of
the responsibility of having to agree transit tariffs, village taxes,
guide fees, accommodation costs etc. Lassi recommended to change the
itinerary slightly from what agreed with the “Mmanager”
and getting into the Dogon from the three cliff villages of Yuga. We
stopped at the campement “Baoab” at the foot of the cliff.
There are no services there other than the water pump but the place
and the scenery are absolutely fantastic! The next day we set off
climbing to visit Yuga na, Yuga Piri and Yuga yuga. It has probably
been the most interesting day in the Dogon region, maybe because
there are very little tourists around here or at least we have come
across very few of them, including a group of “Avventure nel
Mondo” an Italian package tour operator who crossed the cliff in
the opposite direction. I thing they had stayed in Sanga, something
which I would strongly advise against. When we drove past Sanga we
noticed the typical western style hotel. In Sanga we also gave the
director of the school library all the pens and colours and most of
the medicines we had. Subsequently the children told us that these
are not distributed to the children or whoever needs them but simply
resold.
I will not say anymore on the Dogon region. It has become the main
destination in Mali and therefore you will find a lot of reference
material on internet. I would only add that you may just as easily
go around the place without having to distribute cola nuts as it seems
the suggested “etiquette”. The price for these nuts vary
from 15 000 CFA per kilo to 5 000 CFA, if you decide to buy any I
would strongly advice to shop around before you make the final
decision. Furthermore I would also like to recommend the hotel
“Le Village” in Bandiagara, BP 35. This hotel is not
mentioned in travel guides but it offers a good and friendly service.
The manager’s wife is also a very good cook.

The next stop for us was in Burkina Faso. We crossed the border at
Koro. The passport checkings and other formalities took in all about
30 minutes. We did not even need the photos which we had been told
were required to obtain the visa and we took at Douentza. The total
costs for the entry visas for three persons was 40,000 CFA. Past the
border, we drove straight to Ouagadougu, the capital. We chose a
comfortable hotel as one of our travel companions had temperature,
this because of fatigue not malaria. Burkina Faso seemed to us more
advanced than Mali from an infrastructure point of view. The capital
has very little to offer in terms of sightseeing, with maybe the only
exception being the very interesting Music Museum which is worth a
visit with the assistance of the guide. Get ready to come across some
very aggressive vendors who will not take no for an answer. People
seemed to us less friendly that in Mali. Maybe it is just a feeling
but we felt a bit nervous walking around at night, a feeling which
did not have walking around at night in Bamako or Mopti. We spent
more time that planned in Ougadougu and we skipped the trips to
Tiebele and Gaua. Our next stop was Bobo Dioulasso. As we were
approaching Bobo we noticed how the vegetation was changing, becoming
more lavish and florid. This thanks to the abundance of water. We
visited the nearby waterfalls of .. and the lake of… - a day
trip from Bobo. At the lake we also managed to see the ears and the
tips of the noses of a family of hippoes who were taking refuge from
the heat in the water. We also saw large sugar and banana
plantations, miles and cocoa, the former a strong competitor to Ivory
Coast’s. Bobo is a lively place. There are also some drums
training schools where some Italian schools organise short or longer
stages. One of these is the Association “Siraba”.
Nights are very animated in Bobo with numerous activities and live
music being organised in various cafes and restaurants. The market is
also interesting. You can really find anything here. We went back to
Mali, to Bamako, driving past Sikasso which also seemed an interesting
place. We stayed at the … an hotel, fairly central run by a
Lebanese, less welcoming than the B&B of Maritu but with the advantage
of being closer to the centre. Don’t miss the Museum just
outside the centre in Av de la Liberete it is extremely interesting!
We spent the last day in the capital visiting the nearby Sibi.
On the way back to Italy we had a 5 hour stop in Casablanca and used
this time to catch the train into town and go and see the Grand Mosque
which is literally very big!. Beware the taxidrivers who will try not
to use the meter.

We hope we have given you some general information which you may find
useful if you have any queries we will be pleased to reply to you. You
may contact us:




Conclusions:
In short the trip can be made by anyone with a minimum of
adaptability. You can easily arrange everything as independent
travellers without having to rely on agencies. Take some pieces of
parmesan cheese with you will find useful in emergencies.

Massimo & Sonia & Remo

"Alan" wrote in message
m...
This trip sounds very interesting, and yes, I hope that a travel agent
or tour group is not required to visit these places. I'm curious
though, in the spirit of independent travel, why not simply take buses
and trains to your destinations? Lonely Planet indicates that bus and
minvan transport is quite good, even up into Mali, No?


Sure, but as usual in Africa, pretty dangerous too. Large ("intercity")
buses tend to be safer than the minibuses. There are numerous companies who
provide that kind of service between various places in Burkina and (also
various places in) Mali. There are no trains between the two countries.

Herb

Actually, as my little experience and referring to Mali and BF, I
would not state "pretty dangerous". The feeling we had was a quite
place, where hardly you would get in trouble, as long as you hold a
correct behaviour. During my trip in South Africa I felt less "easy
going" that in Mali an BF.

Regards,
Massimo.

P.S. I got the address of our driver:

Mr Lassine Diarra
Location de voiture
Hotel de l'Amitie'
Bamako
Republic du Mali
tel: 646 4748
BP 4645

"Herb" wrote in message ...
"Alan" wrote in message
m...
This trip sounds very interesting, and yes, I hope that a travel agent
or tour group is not required to visit these places. I'm curious
though, in the spirit of independent travel, why not simply take buses
and trains to your destinations? Lonely Planet indicates that bus and
minvan transport is quite good, even up into Mali, No?


Sure, but as usual in Africa, pretty dangerous too. Large ("intercity")
buses tend to be safer than the minibuses. There are numerous companies who
provide that kind of service between various places in Burkina and (also
various places in) Mali. There are no trains between the two countries.

Herb

I was talking about the buses etc. Read the initial question....

It's not Nigeria so not at all dangerous...

Herb

"MassimoM" wrote in message
om...
Actually, as my little experience and referring to Mali and BF, I
would not state "pretty dangerous". The feeling we had was a quite
place, where hardly you would get in trouble, as long as you hold a
correct behaviour. During my trip in South Africa I felt less "easy
going" that in Mali an BF.

Regards,
Massimo.

P.S. I got the address of our driver:

Mr Lassine Diarra
Location de voiture
Hotel de l'Amitie'
Bamako
Republic du Mali
tel: 646 4748
BP 4645

"Herb" wrote in message
...
"Alan" wrote in message
m...
This trip sounds very interesting, and yes, I hope that a travel agent
or tour group is not required to visit these places. I'm curious
though, in the spirit of independent travel, why not simply take buses
and trains to your destinations? Lonely Planet indicates that bus and
minvan transport is quite good, even up into Mali, No?


Sure, but as usual in Africa, pretty dangerous too. Large ("intercity")
buses tend to be safer than the minibuses. There are numerous companies
who
provide that kind of service between various places in Burkina and (also
various places in) Mali. There are no trains between the two countries.

Herb

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...

I'd say most of the danger comes from bad driving and occasionally
horribly
road conditions.

Indeed, I was talking about the buses and their drivers...


But the buses are really uncomfortable on a scale not matched anywhere
except maybe rural China. We ended up hitchhiking and catching rides with
cargo trucks - it was faster and a lot more comfy.

What do you mean, not comfortable? Airconditioned with television and
(stinking) toilet? For about 30.000 CFA Bobo - Bamako??

Herb

Herb wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
But the buses are really uncomfortable on a scale not matched anywhere
except maybe rural China. We ended up hitchhiking and catching rides with
cargo trucks - it was faster and a lot more comfy.

What do you mean, not comfortable? Airconditioned with television and
(stinking) toilet? For about 30.000 CFA Bobo - Bamako??

Hm, I guess we missed something, because we never found any air conditioned
buses in Mali. Well, we found a lot of buses that used to be air conditioned
and so the windows were permanently sealed, but none with A/C that actually
functioned! But we took a strange route so that may have made a difference.

miguel
--
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