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Opinions on trains and planes.
Hello All!
Given the current cattle-car, skinflint conditions, two hour check-ins and waits including security, etc. I wonder how long a journey people would undertake by train if fast European or Japanese style trains were available (say, 400 kph)? I would think that Washington DC to San Francisco might be a bit far. The journey would take about 10 hours as the unstopping crow flies but more likely 15 with a few stops and as the track is laid. I don't like to get up early in the morning but, allowing time to drive to the airport, get thro' security, fly on a plane leaving at noon and drive a rental car to my hotel or other destination, I have to allocate most of a day (certainly at least 12 hours) to get to San Francisco. I've never been able to sleep on planes so "red eyes" are really that! -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
#2
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Opinions on trains and planes.
On Aug 18, 7:57*am, "James Silverton"
wrote: Hello All! Given the current cattle-car, skinflint conditions, two hour check-ins and waits including security, etc. I wonder how long a journey people would undertake by train if fast European or Japanese style trains were available (say, 400 kph)? I would think that Washington DC to San Francisco might be a bit far. The journey would take about 10 hours as the unstopping crow flies but more likely 15 with a few stops and as the track is laid. I don't like to get up early in the morning but, allowing time to drive to the airport, get thro' security, fly on a plane leaving at noon *and drive a rental car to my hotel or other destination, I have to allocate most of a day (certainly at least 12 hours) to get to San Francisco. I've never been able to sleep on planes so "red eyes" are really that! -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not I just ask Scotty to beam me there. Even if there were 400k/h trains, it would take more than 10 hrs from DC to SF. There'll be stops along the way and huge mountain ranges to go over. |
#3
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Opinions on trains and planes.
"PeterL" schrieb
There'll be stops along the way and huge mountain ranges to go over. Or tunnels to go right through the mountains. The fast trains in Europe don't bother to climb up the Alps - ok, the Rockies would need longer tunnels, but when you can build one 60 km long, you can just as well dig twice as far while you're at it. Big advantage over planes: You can take your car with you on many trains (I just found one auto train in the US: From Lorton, VA to Sanford, FL): No need to rent one at your destination. Jochen |
#4
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Opinions on trains and planes.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:58:44 +0200, "Jochen Kriegerowski"
wrote: "PeterL" schrieb There'll be stops along the way and huge mountain ranges to go over. Or tunnels to go right through the mountains. The fast trains in Europe don't bother to climb up the Alps - ok, the Rockies would need longer tunnels, but when you can build one 60 km long, you can just as well dig twice as far while you're at it. Big advantage over planes: You can take your car with you on many trains (I just found one auto train in the US: From Lorton, VA to Sanford, FL): No need to rent one at your destination. At $191 and up each way for the car, I think it might be cheaper and more convenient to rent a car at the other end. Thre's also the cost of getting your car to Lorton to put it on the train when you could have just taken the train all the way from wherever. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#5
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Opinions on trains and planes.
James Silverton wrote:
Hello All! Given the current cattle-car, skinflint conditions, two hour check-ins and waits including security, etc. I wonder how long a journey people would undertake by train if fast European or Japanese style trains were available (say, 400 kph)? I would think that Washington DC to San Francisco might be a bit far. The journey would take about 10 hours as the unstopping crow flies but more likely 15 with a few stops and as the track is laid. I don't like to get up early in the morning but, allowing time to drive to the airport, get thro' security, fly on a plane leaving at noon and drive a rental car to my hotel or other destination, I have to allocate most of a day (certainly at least 12 hours) to get to San Francisco. I've never been able to sleep on planes so "red eyes" are really that! Fifteen years ago I traveled around Europe on rail pass and had a great time. The TGV from Nice to Paris was about 8 hours, going the top speed for only part of the trip. There are a lot of advantages to train over there. It is a very popular mode of transport because they have more frequent service and the passenger trains service so many more towns, unlike train travel here in Canada which is infrequent and services only the main corridors. Most European train stations are located downtown and there are lots of good hotels and restaurants close to the station. You don't have to be there for hours before your departure, and even if you have to wait there are usually good and affordable restaurants in the station Airports OTOH, are generally way out of city so you have spend the extra money and time to get there and to be there at least an hour before departure time to check in and go through security. When I went to Europe back in June I was advised to be there three hours before departure. |
#6
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Opinions on trains and planes.
On Aug 18, 10:03*am, Dave Smith wrote:
James Silverton wrote: Hello All! Given the current cattle-car, skinflint conditions, two hour check-ins and waits including security, etc. I wonder how long a journey people would undertake by train if fast European or Japanese style trains were available (say, 400 kph)? I would think that Washington DC to San Francisco might be a bit far. The journey would take about 10 hours as the unstopping crow flies but more likely 15 with a few stops and as the track is laid. I don't like to get up early in the morning but, allowing time to drive to the airport, get thro' security, fly on a plane leaving at noon *and drive a rental car to my hotel or other destination, I have to allocate most of a day (certainly at least 12 hours) to get to San Francisco. I've never been able to sleep on planes so "red eyes" are really that! Fifteen years ago I traveled around Europe on rail pass and had a great time. The TGV from Nice to Paris was about 8 hours, going the top speed for only part of the trip. There are a lot of advantages to train over there. It is a very popular mode of transport because they have more frequent service and the passenger trains service so many more towns, unlike train travel here in Canada which is infrequent and services only the main corridors. Most European train stations are located downtown and there are lots of good hotels and restaurants close to the station. You don't have to be there for hours before your departure, and even if you have to wait there are usually good and affordable restaurants in the station Airports OTOH, are generally way out of city so you have spend the extra money and time to get there and to be there at least an hour before departure time to check in and go through security. *When I went to Europe back in June I was advised to be there three hours before departure.- European trains and public transportation are supported by huge tax subsidies. Also Europe as a whole are smaller geographically than either the US or Canada. So the two cannot be compared. |
#7
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Opinions on trains and planes.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT), PeterL
wrote: On Aug 18, 10:03*am, Dave Smith wrote: European trains and public transportation are supported by huge tax subsidies. Also Europe as a whole are smaller geographically than either the US or Canada. So the two cannot be compared. That's a misconception. Taken as a whole Europe is not all that much smaller than the USA. The road distance from Nordkapp to Gibralter is on the order of 6000km or about 1440 miles, and the air distance from Lisbon to Kiev is abbout 2100 miles. From Lisbon to Moscow is about 2425 miles. The area of Europe is about 3,930,000 sq mi while the area of the Lower 48 states is about 3,119,884 sq mi. There's some mushiness in these figures due to land area or water area, and all, but clearly the Lower 48 and Europe are of comparable size. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#8
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Opinions on trains and planes.
On Aug 18, 12:02*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT), PeterL wrote: On Aug 18, 10:03*am, Dave Smith wrote: European trains and public transportation are supported by huge tax subsidies. *Also Europe as a whole are smaller geographically than either the US or Canada. *So the two cannot be compared. That's a misconception. Taken as a whole Europe is not all that much smaller than the USA. The road distance from Nordkapp to Gibralter is on the order of 6000km or about 1440 miles, and the air distance from Lisbon to Kiev is abbout 2100 miles. From Lisbon to Moscow is about 2425 miles. The area of Europe is about 3,930,000 sq mi while the area of the Lower 48 states is about 3,119,884 sq mi. There's some mushiness in these figures due to land area or water area, and all, but clearly the Lower 48 and Europe are of comparable size. -- * ************** DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * ** * * * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * * * * * ** My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * I should've said western europe. |
#9
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Opinions on trains and planes.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:12:11 -0700 (PDT), PeterL
wrote: On Aug 18, 12:02*pm, Hatunen wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT), PeterL wrote: On Aug 18, 10:03*am, Dave Smith wrote: European trains and public transportation are supported by huge tax subsidies. *Also Europe as a whole are smaller geographically than either the US or Canada. *So the two cannot be compared. That's a misconception. Taken as a whole Europe is not all that much smaller than the USA. The road distance from Nordkapp to Gibralter is on the order of 6000km or about 1440 miles, and the air distance from Lisbon to Kiev is abbout 2100 miles. From Lisbon to Moscow is about 2425 miles. The area of Europe is about 3,930,000 sq mi while the area of the Lower 48 states is about 3,119,884 sq mi. There's some mushiness in these figures due to land area or water area, and all, but clearly the Lower 48 and Europe are of comparable size. I should've said western europe. What do you man by "Western Europe"? The area outside the Iron Curtain? -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#10
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Opinions on trains and planes.
Hatunen wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT), PeterL wrote: On Aug 18, 10:03 am, Dave Smith wrote: European trains and public transportation are supported by huge tax subsidies. Also Europe as a whole are smaller geographically than either the US or Canada. So the two cannot be compared. That's a misconception. Taken as a whole Europe is not all that much smaller than the USA. The road distance from Nordkapp to Gibralter is on the order of 6000km or about 1440 miles, and the air distance from Lisbon to Kiev is abbout 2100 miles. From Lisbon to Moscow is about 2425 miles. The area of Europe is about 3,930,000 sq mi while the area of the Lower 48 states is about 3,119,884 sq mi. There's some mushiness in these figures due to land area or water area, and all, but clearly the Lower 48 and Europe are of comparable size. You're comparing the continent, "Europe" with the nation "United States". For a fair comparison either compare the US with the EU or North America with Europe. Deadhorse, Alaska, USA, to Key West, Florida, USA, is 5570 road miles or over 4000 air miles. That's not the longest distance from one part of the North American portion of the USA to another. Now want to compare any distance in Europe with Dead Horse to Panama City, Panama? Now, what part of Europe is actually served by your high speed fancy trains and why is the rest not served by them if they are such an ideal transportation solution? -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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