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Hawaii recommendations for 2 week stay? Maui and [??]



 
 
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  #61  
Old January 30th, 2005, 08:45 PM
Marior
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"Greg Mossman" wrote in message
...
"chilly" wrote in message
newsoUKd.205672$8l.37695@pd7tw1no...

(snip) I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause
intestinal
problems for the duration of the holiday and possibly much more serious
including hepatitis.


Get your shots then. It's easy enough to do.
(snip)


Obviously someone as practical as Marior would never subject his family to
needles. Vacations are supposed to be fun, aren't they?


good point.....


BTW, did your Honduran malaria go away yet?


Yikes!

It's nice and sunny here today
but I can't leave home because of West Nile Virus


heh, I know I'm just giving you material to work with here but where I live
West Nile is a new thing and they recommend:

"that you don't make contact with mosquitoes"

uh, OK, but uh, they keep chasing me?!? Mosquitoes here fortunately are big
enough that you hear them coming in like dive bombers but nothing works on
the paleolithic buggers. They appear to just associate muskol with a human
blood appetizer now..

and the high crime rate in
Los Angeles County. I can look out the windows, though. All those crazy
people jogging by, risking twisting an ankle and getting hit by a car.

Besides, what virus would want to live in my liver?


Its stocked up on preventative Tequila based vaccine?




  #62  
Old January 30th, 2005, 08:53 PM
Greg Mossman
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"Marior" wrote in message
news:TPaLd.222874$6l.120449@pd7tw2no...

Its stocked up on preventative Tequila based vaccine?


The same disinfectant that 9 out of 10 doctors and hospitals recommend. (I
tried drinking Betadine once but it was terrible)


  #63  
Old January 31st, 2005, 12:01 AM
Greg Mossman
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"Marior" wrote in message
news:RVbLd.222231$8l.208540@pd7tw1no...

Nope, just naive tourists like you and the rest of the cruisers. When
you
leave the safety and seclusion of your all-inclusive or you get off the
boat, you impinge on the rest of us.


Let me know how to do some more impinging... anything other than dark
socks?


Crowding the sidewalks really ****es me off. Actually any sort of tourist
crowding ****es me off. Stop the damn crowding. If I want to be crowded
I'll travel to Asia.

Statistically, thats highly probable. I could go to Columbia for vacation
and have a astronomically high probability of getting out. That said some
places are still just riskier than others.


As are some actions, like bicycling.

Apology accepted.


knew you'd say that.


I could have rejected your apology but I was trying to show you what a nice
guy I really am.

heh, we have decidedly different takes on the stay away levels... now I'm
kinda wondering whether say Columbia, Indonesia, have any decent dive ops
you've frequented?


Indonesia? Heck yeah, but I haven't made it over there yet. That's for
next year. In 2004 I merely braved the terrorism and tsunamis of southern
Thailand and drove cross-country (no bicycles for me) and walked around the
streets of Quito, Ecuador late at night where the submachinegun-carrying
police also have Rottweilers on chains that growl and lunge at you as you
pass by. Also a trip to the dangerous jungles of Los Cabos, MX where I
actually drove there too, risking bandits and insurgents to dive up at Cabo
Pulmo, a 2-hour drive away. I did get lost on the way back, turning the
wrong way at the junction town of La Ribera, and when a sinister little
school pointed out the way it turned out to be the wrong way. I could have
been killed had she been wrapped in high explosives as a booby-trap for
unsuspecting tourists like me or lured me into the insurgent's den. Instead
I soon realized my mistake, retraced my steps, and soon found the highway
back to my treacherous non AI hotel.

The scariest moment was when I cracked open a cold beer to mellow me for the
long drive back and about halfway down I ingested some chunks. There's
nothing scarier than finding chunks in your beer. I immediately rolled down
the window and spat them out, but I couldn't get that chunky taste out of my
mouth no matter how much beer I drank.

On this one it turns out you're right.


I'm always right.

Nah, its relatively safe, certainly safer than mexico


Mexico is a big country. There are plenty of places within Mexico that are
much safer than Waikiki.

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#world


Skewed by border and Mexico City crime. Not a reality in the tourist areas,
all-inclusive or not.

Turns out Honolulu is the safest city in America in regards to the stat
I'm
most concerned about. Homicide. Hawaii as a state is also about as
*murderous* as Iowa, New Hampshire, and Idaho. Exactly what I figured.
This
is highly consistent with my view on Hawaii feeling like a relatively safe
place Greg. Any rebuttal?


Homicide rates are so low anyway as to be statistically nothing to worry
about. You're much more likely to be victimized by thieves and Hawaii has
one of the highest larceny rates in the U.S. Homicide is very, very, very
unlikely even if you're walking around bad areas of Mexico City late at
night and you wouldn't be doing that. It's practically non-existent in much
of the country.

Greg, given some of this please explain where, how, I was wrong before.


Compare crime rates of, say, Ixtapa or Manzanillo, versus crime rates in
Honolulu. That's how you were wrong. Generalizing a localized problem to
an entire country.

what with all the
drugs and hookers walking around. You may prefer to expose your family
to
drugs and hookers instead of the Catholic values of a small picturesque
Mexican village. That's fair.


Until this point I was taking you somewhat seriously but its clear you've
been pulling my leg... For the sake of your argument I'd certainly hope
thats what you were doing. You can just say yes.... Mexico?
Prostitution?
Picturesque? The very many prostitutes there are certainly not
picturesque,


Very many prostitutes? Where do you hang out in Mexico where you see lots
of prostitutes? I've never seen so many streetwalkers in one place as in
Waikiki Beach on a Friday night. Mexican prostitutes aren't tramping around
the main streets of rural villages, they're segregated into brothels and
strip clubs where you hopefully don't take your children.

Though apparently they've cleaned up their act a bit:

"Prostitutes were once a common sight along Kalakaua and Kuhio avenues until
the state Legislature passed a law in 1998 that allowed judges to impose
so-called geographic restrictions to keep them out of Waikiki from 6 p.m. to
6 a.m."

I don't think I've walked along Kalakaua late at night since 1992.

Still, "while prostitution has decreased in Waikiki, Honolulu police say
they have investigated triple the number of offenses in neighboring District
1. From January to June, police logged 45 prostitution offenses in Waikiki
while handling 137 prostitution offenses in District 1, which primarily
covers the area through downtown Honolulu from Liliha to Punahou streets."

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../ln/ln05a.html

Plenty I'd bet. but its a risk I'll take.... hiking is clearly my drug of
choice. A landslide or maybe concealed lavatube or whatever can happen in
certain locations but other than that I'm sure footed enough not to take
the
quick elevator down the cliff.


Landslides happen all the time. Hawaii is blessed with some sheer dropoffs
and the trails skirting them are very eroded. I got freaked out hiking out
of the Red Sand Beach in Hana when it started to rain hard.

Didn't a whole bunch of tourists get killed just a few years ago when a big
rock fell on their heads?

"Hikers crushed by boulders at park in Oahu -- HAUULA, Hawaii (AP-Staff) -
Rescuers using heat-seeking cameras and military search dogs failed to find
any more bodies yesterday in tonnes of debris left by a weekend landslide
that killed at least six people and injured dozens of others."

http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0... word=&teaser=

That was in May of 1999 while I was in Maui on my honeymoon.

I can't believe you subject your family to such a dangerous activity.

Heh, cycling here is no picnic either and point taken. Risk in everything
and lots in cycling.


There were more tourists killed hiking on the tiny island of Oahu in May of
1999 then were killed that month in the entire country of Mexico. How's
about that. I guess timing is everything.



  #64  
Old January 31st, 2005, 02:12 AM
TheNewsGuy
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Posts: n/a
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:39:05 GMT, "chilly"
wrote:

....
Great shots. What kind of camera do you use?


Thank you. - Camera is a digital Nikon CP5700, some shots with an
Olympus 0 .7 wide angle converter added. I used a monopod for the
telephoto shots of surfers and for longer exposures in the low light
jungles. I then cropped and adjusted them in PhotoShop. But good
pictures also come from the 200 or so that are not shown.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists
+ (two mirrored sites)
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  #65  
Old January 31st, 2005, 02:12 AM
TheNewsGuy
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Default

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:46:17 GMT, "eeo"
wrote:
....
And Kuhio is still a good place to rent "a friend." ;^)


If I had only known. LOL



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists
+ (two mirrored sites)
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+ All things Seinfeld; scripts, trivia, lists,
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  #66  
Old January 31st, 2005, 04:26 AM
Mimi
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"Greg Mossman" wrote in message
...
"Todd H." wrote in message
...

Unfortunately economics got involved and I cut my vacation back and
simplified a bit. I was able to find a package that dropped me on
Maui for 10 days at the Ritz Carlton including airfare from Chicago
for less than $4k total for 2. Comparing with other hotels and even
remotely as nice places, I couldn't muster a lower number.


The Ritz-Carlton is obviously much more comfortable than a condo.


Why would this be so? Even if you have a suite, there's more room in a
condo. And you don't have to eat in those expensive bad restaurants, which
are much the majority in Hawaii. And condos may be very nicely decorated
with views of the ocean. I don't know what the pool's like at the Ritz
Carlton; it may be better.

Marianne


  #67  
Old January 31st, 2005, 05:27 AM
Greg Mossman
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"Mimi" wrote in message
...

Why would this be so? Even if you have a suite, there's more room in a
condo. And you don't have to eat in those expensive bad restaurants, which
are much the majority in Hawaii. And condos may be very nicely decorated
with views of the ocean. I don't know what the pool's like at the Ritz
Carlton; it may be better.


Bad restaurants in Maui? Overpriced, perhaps, but certainly not bad. The
Big Island has bad restaurants, but you can eat very well in Maui.

The Plantation House, up near the Ritz in Kapalua, is one of Maui's best
seafood restaurants and has very decent prices. Places like Mama's Fish
House and David Paul's are pricier, but rival any of the best food anywhere.

Why would you want to cook and wash dishes, take out the trash, set the
table, and grocery shop while you're on vacation?

I suppose you must make your own bed too. At the Ritz, they make the bed
for you.



  #68  
Old January 31st, 2005, 07:31 AM
Marior
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Greg Mossman" wrote in message
...
"Marior" wrote in message
news:RVbLd.222231$8l.208540@pd7tw1no...

Nope, just naive tourists like you and the rest of the cruisers. When
you
leave the safety and seclusion of your all-inclusive or you get off the
boat, you impinge on the rest of us.


Let me know how to do some more impinging... anything other than dark
socks?


Crowding the sidewalks really ****es me off. Actually any sort of tourist
crowding ****es me off. Stop the damn crowding. If I want to be crowded
I'll travel to Asia.


Agreed actually. I'm spoiled with places I can go whenever I want for
seclusion. Its definitely a Canada perk. That said Banff townsite drives me
batty. I can only be in certain places for so many hours then....

Statistically, thats highly probable. I could go to Columbia for

vacation
and have a astronomically high probability of getting out. That said

some
places are still just riskier than others.


As are some actions, like bicycling.


Absolutely. I wonder whether we all all make more allowances for risk with
activities we each REALLY enjoy. Your love of diving likely makes you
consider the quality of dive far before the local politics, stability of the
country, risk etc. I've modified some of my biking locales but the risk is
still definite.

Apology accepted.


knew you'd say that.


I could have rejected your apology but I was trying to show you what a

nice
guy I really am.


heh, Try harder

heh, we have decidedly different takes on the stay away levels... now

I'm
kinda wondering whether say Columbia, Indonesia, have any decent dive

ops
you've frequented?


Indonesia? Heck yeah, but I haven't made it over there yet. That's for
next year. In 2004 I merely braved the terrorism and tsunamis of southern
Thailand and drove cross-country (no bicycles for me) and walked around

the
streets of Quito, Ecuador late at night where the submachinegun-carrying
police also have Rottweilers on chains that growl and lunge at you as you
pass by. Also a trip to the dangerous jungles of Los Cabos, MX where I
actually drove there too, risking bandits and insurgents to dive up at

Cabo
Pulmo, a 2-hour drive away. I did get lost on the way back, turning the
wrong way at the junction town of La Ribera, and when a sinister little
school pointed out the way it turned out to be the wrong way. I could

have
been killed had she been wrapped in high explosives as a booby-trap for
unsuspecting tourists like me or lured me into the insurgent's den.

Instead
I soon realized my mistake, retraced my steps, and soon found the highway
back to my treacherous non AI hotel.


You get bored easy?

The scariest moment was when I cracked open a cold beer to mellow me for

the
long drive back and about halfway down I ingested some chunks. There's
nothing scarier than finding chunks in your beer. I immediately rolled

down
the window and spat them out, but I couldn't get that chunky taste out of

my
mouth no matter how much beer I drank.


hopefully a different brand...

On this one it turns out you're right.


I'm always right.


I had that feeling

Nah, its relatively safe, certainly safer than mexico


Mexico is a big country. There are plenty of places within Mexico that

are
much safer than Waikiki.


Thats really still stretching

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#world


Skewed by border and Mexico City crime. Not a reality in the tourist

areas,
all-inclusive or not.


Ah but you don't know where I would want to go if I went to Mexico. Mexico
City is one.

Turns out Honolulu is the safest city in America in regards to the stat
I'm
most concerned about. Homicide. Hawaii as a state is also about as
*murderous* as Iowa, New Hampshire, and Idaho. Exactly what I figured.
This
is highly consistent with my view on Hawaii feeling like a relatively

safe
place Greg. Any rebuttal?


Homicide rates are so low anyway as to be statistically nothing to worry
about.


I covered that in my last post in reference to making it out of Columbia.
Where I differ from you is I still factor the Mexico level as something to
pay close attention to. You seem to dismiss it because its highly unlikely.
That doesn't dimiss the 100k's of murders that have occurred there.

You're much more likely to be victimized by thieves and Hawaii has
one of the highest larceny rates in the U.S.


Hope you don't mind if I don't take you at face value on that as you've been
about as wrong as is possible on many points in the thread thus far. But
anyhow, Larcenys not my 1st concern as none of these robber types attempts
to jack me personally as theres always an easier target just headed down the
road. If it ever did happen the 50 bucks can be readily replaced, my life
can't, homicides all I really worry about.

Homicide is very, very, very
unlikely even if you're walking around bad areas of Mexico City late at
night and you wouldn't be doing that. It's practically non-existent in

much
of the country.


Thats akin to saying homicide is practically non-existent in the world
today. Its all relative and relatively Mexico is close to the worst in the
globe. it exists plenty enough there that it can happen and especially to
tourists that can end up going into areas without enough knowledge.

Greg, given some of this please explain where, how, I was wrong before.


Compare crime rates of, say, Ixtapa or Manzanillo,


1st of all I would rather take my vacation in Saskatoon than go to Ixtapa or
Manzanillo or Cancun. Why does anybody go to such contrived 3rd world
resorts. I can't stand the idea of going to somewhere that was a pristine
beach just recently that was destroyed just to service the go nowhere, see
nothing, all inclusive worshippers. Why leave home just to empower the
Tourism industry involved in the wrecking of yet another part of the world?
If i'm going to a resort I'd prefer something like maybe Acapulco or Puerto
Vallarta that wasn't wrecked in my life time where I can actually access
some history, some local flavor, some towns. FWIW one of my friends went to
Manzanillo just 5 years ago and not a few miles outside of Manzanilllo they
were stopped at a highly unauthorized checkpoint that was set up by a drug
cartel that was apparently looking to murder the 1st rivals that came along
and were amusing themselves in the meanwhile stopping everybody and taking
their money at gunpoint. My friend complained to local officials who did
nothing to confront the bandits who were stationed there for two full days.
My friend investigated and found that everybody locally knew what was going
on as it had happened chronically and that the authorities didn't DARE
intervene. After experiences the 1st day of the *checkpoint* none of the
tourists dared to leave town and my friends spent an entire week in
Manzanillo with nothing to do, nowhere to go. Stuck in nowhere Manzanillo.
Fun holiday.

versus crime rates in
Honolulu. That's how you were wrong. Generalizing a localized problem to
an entire country.


no, not wrong. You ASSUMED where I would go, what I would do, what I was
interested in, IF I went to Mexico. I'm right because my preferred areas to
go to include Mexico City and Oaxaca both areas that are problematic and I
know it. The same year as the friends went to Manzanillo we were gonna do
Oaxaca, Mexico City, Merida, and Progresso in the Yucatan and a curiosity
visit to Cancun, Cozumel, Tulum, Uxmal, Chichen itza. Merida was to be our
prime location and an axis point for exploration of the numerous
archeological sites. We had accomodation picked, arrangements made, and
backed out. Further to the Manzanillo story someone else I knew had gone to
the same sites we were going to go to and reported that they HAD to go on
tours because the carjackings, robberies on the roads leading to the sites
were so prolific that the tour buses had an armed security person on board.
Again not my idea of a great fun time for family.
I'd still be interested but maybe later in life. Merida sounds like a real
nice place, being that its slightly inland I'm not sure you'd be too
familiar with it. Nice Town for a cheap picturesque Mexican holiday though.

http://www.virtualmex.com/merida.htm


what with all the
drugs and hookers walking around. You may prefer to expose your family
to
drugs and hookers instead of the Catholic values of a small picturesque
Mexican village. That's fair.


Until this point I was taking you somewhat seriously but its clear

you've
been pulling my leg... For the sake of your argument I'd certainly hope
thats what you were doing. You can just say yes.... Mexico?
Prostitution?
Picturesque? The very many prostitutes there are certainly not
picturesque,


Very many prostitutes? Where do you hang out in Mexico where you see lots
of prostitutes? I've never seen so many streetwalkers in one place as in
Waikiki Beach on a Friday night. Mexican prostitutes aren't tramping

around
the main streets of rural villages, they're segregated into brothels and
strip clubs where you hopefully don't take your children.


According to some info that's of an adult nature that I won't link too its
50-50 street/brothel right now. As long as they don't do it right on the
street or in public its allowed and streetwalking is flourishing in Mexico.

Though apparently they've cleaned up their act a bit:

"Prostitutes were once a common sight along Kalakaua and Kuhio avenues

until
the state Legislature passed a law in 1998 that allowed judges to impose
so-called geographic restrictions to keep them out of Waikiki from 6 p.m.

to
6 a.m."


Not nearly the problem that you describe and so it looks like its been
cracked down on well enough. FTR it pales compared to anything we've
experienced in say Montreal. Not really my first concern as a family man.
kids today are well aware at an early age of everything out there anyway and
I see no benefit in providing an insular upbringing to a point the point
being for instance exposing them to the wrong end of a gun barrel.


I don't think I've walked along Kalakaua late at night since 1992.


well there you go

Still, "while prostitution has decreased in Waikiki, Honolulu police say
they have investigated triple the number of offenses in neighboring

District
1. From January to June, police logged 45 prostitution offenses in Waikiki
while handling 137 prostitution offenses in District 1, which primarily
covers the area through downtown Honolulu from Liliha to Punahou streets."

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../ln/ln05a.html


sure looks like a problem existed but we noted it mainly in one area when we
were down there and we were not effected at all. Its not clear how it
really effects me anyhow. The only risk is to Johns and hookers really.

Plenty I'd bet. but its a risk I'll take.... hiking is clearly my drug

of
choice. A landslide or maybe concealed lavatube or whatever can happen

in
certain locations but other than that I'm sure footed enough not to take
the
quick elevator down the cliff.


Landslides happen all the time. Hawaii is blessed with some sheer

dropoffs
and the trails skirting them are very eroded. I got freaked out hiking

out
of the Red Sand Beach in Hana when it started to rain hard.


One of the things that freaked me is knowing that hawaii has some of the
most rapidly eroding zones on earth, . that ol volcanic rock is always
moving dammit! I hear ya!

Didn't a whole bunch of tourists get killed just a few years ago when a

big
rock fell on their heads?

"Hikers crushed by boulders at park in Oahu -- HAUULA, Hawaii (AP-Staff) -
Rescuers using heat-seeking cameras and military search dogs failed to

find
any more bodies yesterday in tonnes of debris left by a weekend landslide
that killed at least six people and injured dozens of others."


http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0...fid=ink_pubnew
s&skeyword=&teaser=

That was in May of 1999 while I was in Maui on my honeymoon.


Yeah, I think I heard about that one. I had an experince with a landlside
on the Road to Hana that was unsettling. Whole road was blocked but they
were able to clear just enough to squeeze and I do mean squeeze the rent a
car through or spend the night right around there.... our choice.

I can't believe you subject your family to such a dangerous activity.


I get your point everything has risks but theres something specifically
about murder that irks me. Strange that. On the other hand If a meteorite
falls on my head as I'm writing this cest la...............


  #69  
Old January 31st, 2005, 08:57 AM
chilly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Marior" wrote in message
news:TPaLd.222874$6l.120449@pd7tw2no...

(snip)
heh, I know I'm just giving you material to work with here but where I

live
West Nile is a new thing and they recommend:

"that you don't make contact with mosquitoes"


:^)

uh, OK, but uh, they keep chasing me?!? Mosquitoes here fortunately are

big
enough that you hear them coming in like dive bombers but nothing works on
the paleolithic buggers. They appear to just associate muskol with a human
blood appetizer now..


I was using Muskol while in Roatan. Didn't seem to be doing a thing. I
switched to Deep Woods Off and that seemed to work somewhat better. I can't
explain it since they both have the same amount of DEET.

And for the record, I don't have Roatan malaria (at least not yet that I'm
aware of). I did bring home some nasty Roatan cold/flu thing that was going
around. There have been some complications since then but now I'm taking
supermeds that make me sick as they cure my other symptoms.

(snip)


  #70  
Old January 31st, 2005, 06:01 PM
Greg Mossman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Marior" wrote in message
news:dhkLd.227192$6l.42667@pd7tw2no...

Agreed actually. I'm spoiled with places I can go whenever I want for
seclusion. Its definitely a Canada perk. That said Banff townsite drives
me
batty. I can only be in certain places for so many hours then....


I like Banff in the off-season. But in the peak of the summer it gets as
crowded as any other tourist hot spot.

Absolutely. I wonder whether we all all make more allowances for risk with
activities we each REALLY enjoy. Your love of diving likely makes you
consider the quality of dive far before the local politics, stability of
the
country, risk etc. I've modified some of my biking locales but the risk
is
still definite.


Not really. As divers, we learn how to properly gauge risk. Just because a
murder rate of .000012 is 4 times higher than a murder rate of .000003, it's
still not very likely that I'll be murdered. And many of the statistics can
be "avoided" by taking simple precautions.

Mexico is a big country. There are plenty of places within Mexico that

are
much safer than Waikiki.


Thats really still stretching


Hardly.

Ah but you don't know where I would want to go if I went to Mexico. Mexico
City is one.


You can't compare Waikiki with Mexico City. One is a practically walled-in
security-guarded tourist island, the other is the largest city in the world.

Compare Waikiki with a popular Mexican tourist beach if you want to be fair.
But even Honolulu in general can't compare to Mexico City.

But you said "Mexico" and my argument was that much of Mexico is as safe as
Hawaii. Since my argument is that Mexico City skews the crime statistics,
you simply can't go there. Try again.

I covered that in my last post in reference to making it out of Columbia.
Where I differ from you is I still factor the Mexico level as something to
pay close attention to. You seem to dismiss it because its highly
unlikely.
That doesn't dimiss the 100k's of murders that have occurred there.


But if you take out the Sinaloa corridor (easy to avoid if you don't like
the desert), the border zone (easy to avoid if you don't like border zones),
and Mexico City (easy to avoid as long as you stay in the airport), you
leave a remainder filled with white sand beaches, lush jungles, and mountain
forests waiting to be explored. Bicycling isn't going to be as comfortable
since the roads will be more potholed, when there are roads, and hiking
won't allow you the comfort of a helicopter airlift 15 minutes away
accessible by your cell phone, but the potential area left over after
avoiding the crime spots which skew the statistics is still thousands (or at
least hundreds?) of times the size of Hawaii.

Hope you don't mind if I don't take you at face value on that as you've
been
about as wrong as is possible on many points in the thread thus far. But
anyhow, Larcenys not my 1st concern as none of these robber types attempts
to jack me personally as theres always an easier target just headed down
the
road. If it ever did happen the 50 bucks can be readily replaced, my life
can't, homicides all I really worry about.


Crime is all about easier targets. Don't make yourself an easy target in
Hawaii and don't make yourself an easy target in Mexico. It's usually as
simple as that.

1st of all I would rather take my vacation in Saskatoon than go to Ixtapa
or
Manzanillo or Cancun. Why does anybody go to such contrived 3rd world
resorts.


What's Waikiki Beach? That's what you're comparing it to. Why does anybody
go to such contrived 1st world resorts? That's the point of this whole
debate, Mr. All-Inclusive.

I can't stand the idea of going to somewhere that was a pristine
beach just recently that was destroyed just to service the go nowhere, see
nothing, all inclusive worshippers.


What do you think Waikiki looked like in the 'old days'? Yet you gush over
the place.

Why leave home just to empower the
Tourism industry involved in the wrecking of yet another part of the
world?


It's hardly up to me to determine how a developing country wants to make
money from rich first-worlders like you. Mexico has thousands of miles of
undisturbed beaches. Why not carve up a few to make some cash that can
boost the economy and provide jobs and infrastructure for their citizens?
It's not like we're a great role model. Southern California beaches are
relatively much more developed than Mexico's and our water quality is often
pitiful.

If i'm going to a resort I'd prefer something like maybe Acapulco or
Puerto
Vallarta that wasn't wrecked in my life time where I can actually access
some history, some local flavor, some towns.


Oh, I see. Waikiki wasn't wrecked in your lifetime so it's OK to visit now.

Your grandchildren will be able to enjoy Cancun and Ixtapa, then?

The difference is that PV and Acapulco have been wrecked for so long that
they've become cities, meccas for pollution and crime. The newer resorts
are still almost pristine.

FWIW one of my friends went to
Manzanillo just 5 years ago and not a few miles outside of Manzanilllo
they
were stopped at a highly unauthorized checkpoint that was set up by a drug
cartel that was apparently looking to murder the 1st rivals that came
along
and were amusing themselves in the meanwhile stopping everybody and taking
their money at gunpoint. My friend complained to local officials who did
nothing to confront the bandits who were stationed there for two full
days.
My friend investigated and found that everybody locally knew what was
going
on as it had happened chronically and that the authorities didn't DARE
intervene. After experiences the 1st day of the *checkpoint* none of the
tourists dared to leave town and my friends spent an entire week in
Manzanillo with nothing to do, nowhere to go. Stuck in nowhere Manzanillo.
Fun holiday.


Sounds fine to me. I've spent weeks at a time on 100' boats with nothing to
do, nowhere to go. I've done the same at little resorts in very
out-of-the-way places. Perhaps your friends get bored easily?

archeological sites. We had accomodation picked, arrangements made, and
backed out. Further to the Manzanillo story someone else I knew had gone
to
the same sites we were going to go to and reported that they HAD to go on
tours because the carjackings, robberies on the roads leading to the sites
were so prolific that the tour buses had an armed security person on
board.
Again not my idea of a great fun time for family.


Keep them locked up safe inside the walls of the all-inclusive and shelter
them from the real world. That's much better for them. Like I said, you
should try Disneyland. You'd love it.

According to some info that's of an adult nature that I won't link too its
50-50 street/brothel right now. As long as they don't do it right on the
street or in public its allowed and streetwalking is flourishing in
Mexico.


Your information from your porno sites and your all-inclusive friends
doesn't impress me. I've been there. Recently.

I spent a week in the Los Cabos area a few months ago, covering Cabo San
Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, and up the coast to Cabo Pulmo, and I can't say
that I saw a single streetwalker there. Two months prior to that, I spent a
week based in Cancun, with side trips to Playa del Carmen, Puerto Moreles,
and Cozumel, and I can't say that I saw I single streetwalker there.
Another five months before that I spent a weekend in Ensenada, driving
across the border at Tijuana, and I can't say that I saw a single
streetwalker there either.

So since you're trying to educate me about somewhere you've never been,
somewhere where I visit several times a year, any argument you make just
sounds silly.

sure looks like a problem existed but we noted it mainly in one area when
we
were down there and we were not effected at all. Its not clear how it
really effects me anyhow. The only risk is to Johns and hookers really.


Do you want your family to be walking nearby when one pimp is shooting at
another? I can't believe you have so little disregard for your family's
welfare.

One of the things that freaked me is knowing that hawaii has some of the
most rapidly eroding zones on earth, . that ol volcanic rock is always
moving dammit! I hear ya!


Yeah, whatever, but wet sand erodes even faster and that's what the hillside
with the little trail to the Red Sand Beach is made of.

Yeah, I think I heard about that one. I had an experince with a landlside
on the Road to Hana that was unsettling. Whole road was blocked but they
were able to clear just enough to squeeze and I do mean squeeze the rent a
car through or spend the night right around there.... our choice.


A few feet more and you'd be part of the scenery. But that's an acceptable
risk to you. Whatever.

I get your point everything has risks but theres something specifically
about murder that irks me. Strange that. On the other hand If a meteorite
falls on my head as I'm writing this cest la...............


Danger of death is danger of death regardless of who's pulling the trigger,
a murderer or nature. And irrational fear is still irrational fear.


 




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