A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Other Travel Groups » Travel - anything else not covered
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Travelling to Rio



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old March 7th, 2004, 01:14 AM
Loopcineo Rogrigues
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

You can get the same problem in LA, Oakland, Santa Cruz... Mexican and
Black gangs there are very dangerous.

JohnM wrote in message ...
In article , P E T E R
P A N writes

-- snip snip --

I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to
buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a
dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I
stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark,
scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me
in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the
pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in
Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the
street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with
both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time,
out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us
from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted.
Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs.


-- snip snip --

Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street
wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out
of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the
guy attacked you 'as you walked out'?

  #22  
Old March 7th, 2004, 06:14 AM
Bruno Carneiro da Cunha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

"dajaxon" wrote in message
...
I woudl hope that other countries would understand why Americans are

gunshy
and may be subjecting travelers to unusual checks - by the way are any
Brazilians help fight terrorism? just wondering?


Of course Brazilians are all for fighting against terrorism. But "the war on
terrorism" has (or should have) absolutely nothing to do with hassling
third-world country's citizens. Most of the people involved with 9/11 would
have been caught beforehand if the security checks already in place were
applied (like for instance checking if Atta had actually enrolled in the
school like he told the consulate general), and all terror scares after that
came from Europe! But never once did the U.S. government told the Brazilian
government that computer scanneable passports with biometric information
would be an alternative for the extended hassle, like it is for Europeans.

So it is hard for many Brazilians (yours truly included) to build the bridge
between US-VISIT and "the war on terrorism."

So since Brazil has placed these NEW get-back-atcha strategies, I happily
take my business elsewhere.


So will Brazilians, but I don't think this attitude will help anyone. BTW,
these are OLD "get-back-atcha strategies." Brazil instituted a fee for
issuing visas after U.S. did the same thing to Brazilian applicants.
Brazilians banned visas issued by mail after the U.S. did the same thing to
Brazilians. It is our prerrogative to treat U.S. citizens as well as they
treat ours.

I don't knock Brazilians by the way - I love their hospitality, language

and
varied races - but what purpose does the new strategy have? Inever n=knew
Brazilian o be vindictive.


"Vindictive" means there is an act of retribution involved. I think that
"just" is the word you are looking for here.

B.


  #23  
Old March 7th, 2004, 08:20 PM
michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

**** Rio **** Brazil
"Bruno Carneiro da Cunha" wrote in
message ...
"dajaxon" wrote in message
...
I woudl hope that other countries would understand why Americans are

gunshy
and may be subjecting travelers to unusual checks - by the way are any
Brazilians help fight terrorism? just wondering?


Of course Brazilians are all for fighting against terrorism. But "the war

on
terrorism" has (or should have) absolutely nothing to do with hassling
third-world country's citizens. Most of the people involved with 9/11

would
have been caught beforehand if the security checks already in place were
applied (like for instance checking if Atta had actually enrolled in the
school like he told the consulate general), and all terror scares after

that
came from Europe! But never once did the U.S. government told the

Brazilian
government that computer scanneable passports with biometric information
would be an alternative for the extended hassle, like it is for Europeans.

So it is hard for many Brazilians (yours truly included) to build the

bridge
between US-VISIT and "the war on terrorism."

So since Brazil has placed these NEW get-back-atcha strategies, I

happily
take my business elsewhere.


So will Brazilians, but I don't think this attitude will help anyone. BTW,
these are OLD "get-back-atcha strategies." Brazil instituted a fee for
issuing visas after U.S. did the same thing to Brazilian applicants.
Brazilians banned visas issued by mail after the U.S. did the same thing

to
Brazilians. It is our prerrogative to treat U.S. citizens as well as they
treat ours.

I don't knock Brazilians by the way - I love their hospitality, language

and
varied races - but what purpose does the new strategy have? Inever

n=knew
Brazilian o be vindictive.


"Vindictive" means there is an act of retribution involved. I think that
"just" is the word you are looking for here.

B.




  #24  
Old March 7th, 2004, 08:39 PM
P E T E R P A N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

Hi Luis,

Thanks for posting your thoughtful, honest and helpful information on
this subject.

The Italians in question are citizens of Italy, but permanent
residents of the US in West Palm Beach, Florida. Perhaps the Brazil's
counselate treat them differently? They mentioned specifically the
US$140 visa fee and decided to stay away from Brazil! They were
touring South America and were just enjoying entertainment with me in
Argentina. They never seemed to have any strong opinions of anything,
until the subject of Brazil's visa requirement came up!

To answer other posters in this thread, the US was attacked by
terrorists, hijacking 4 airliners full of passengers, including
probably a few Brazilians and other nationalities, slamming them into
US government and business centers. Those are very serious, all-out
war acts! We need to take all measures to make sure such horrible acts
can never again happen!

As a traveler, I would want the US as well as all other countries to
tighten their security, so my life, and those of my family and
friends, will never be jeopardized by a few stupid, despicable
terrorists! The US government and its low-paid, hard-working
employees are responsible to provide this security to everyone
traveling through its territory, with limited resources, while having
to respond to other urgent needs and problems.

There appear to be a bit of misunderstandings between peoples of
different countries and cultures here. I am pretty sure the US
government would love to have travelers from all countries to come to
the US, spending money, bringing creative ideas, rich culture etc...
to enrich its country. I am very sure the US government and most
Americans are very unlikely to turn down money or good
times...However, they have to balance those desires with the
responsibilities to maintain security, laws and order, with limited
resources, in a wide-open and free country, where people are allowed
to move around and do things freely, and the enormous costs and
difficulties in hiring officials to track down errant visitors after
the fact. As reported by various sources, the average cost to the US
government for each employee is about US$100,000 per year. That's the
constraint with which the government must figure out how to manage its
respinsiblities and resources.

I don't understand why Brazilians, including a professor friend, would
think the US government would act, not driven by absolutely critical
needs, but to just spite and denigrate any people in the world with
its visa procedures. This present elected US government has to provide
for some very serious and urgent needs for the people. I do not
believe it can afford to be anything but very practical and
conservative.

While I want the added security, as a US citizen, I do not like the
new inconveniences imposed upon me personally, such as having to show
up personally at various government agencies to confirm my identity
for driver license, SS card, passport, waiting in long lines at
airport security check points etc.... I am sure many people found the
US government's immigration policies and practices, as well as
attitudes of US embassy employees offensive. Please consider that
they are required by US laws and political pressures to do very good
jobs with very limited time and resources.

Please also be informed that the bureaucrats at various US embassies
are actually very low-paid workers, who have to work long, hard hours,
exposing their families to a lot of personal risks and inconveniences,
to do their jobs for their country. These bureaucrats are actually
very near the bottom rungs on the socio-economic status ladder in the
US. A lot of those workers are highly educated and idealistic young
people, who bypass safety and comforts in the US, and better and
bigger opportunities elsewhere, to work for the US diplomatic corp.,
just to be able to travel and to mix with other peoples of the world.
My family has a few people working at various US embassies, so I
understand their circumstances first-hand!

Please understand their responsibilities and excuse them if they do
not appear friendly. They are there to do very serious and
professional jobs. If they are all friendly, then Osama Bin Laden
would have smuggled divisions of Jihad terrorists into the US. To make
friends, you may want to meet them after work hours, and show them
your thoughtful concerns as well as the true goodness and hospitality
of your people. That way you can both exchange your views and your
culture without official restraints.

I myself would be delighted to have open, honest, fun, friendly, equal
and peaceful relationships with the peoples I visit, whether they are
the kings of the heaps or just poor nomads tending their herds! I
would rather focus on all possible short term and long term mutual
benefits between respective peoples, and just ignore all the empty,
self-serving posturing by the politicians! The American people is
much bigger, more understanding and more generous than the
narrowly-focused government it elects to serve. I know personally of a
few critical needs from friendly countries that were met very quickly
through the US democratic process, just on basis of mutual friendship.

Another thing you should know about US bureaucrats is that they are
very sensitive to keeping their low-paying government jobs and their
retirement pensions. If you feel you have been mistreated or
discriminated, by all means take down the names of the bureaucrats
involved, along with the facts and witnesses. You should then write
letters to the responsible managers to seek redress, or you should
obtain lawyers and sue everyone involved for large compensations. I
remember a few Bosnian women, who were raped by Slobodan Melosevich's
troops, got contingency lawyers and sued the Bosnian government in a
New York federal court in 2000, and were granted the rights to collect
millions dollars of damages against that government.

This option is recommended to people of friendly countries but is
obviously closed to hostile, violent and evil tyrants like Osama Bin
Laden and Sadam Hussein etc... These terrorists are resolutely
referred to the Big Complaints Office, staffed by the US Department of
Defense with their brave young men and women, who expertly use their
fine aircraft carriers, top-notch aircrafts, smart missiles and
precision munitions to deal with any threats from evil terrorists....

Anyway, I hope that US bureaucrats are not losing our shirts
processing the $100 visa applications with all that background checks
required to filter out terrorists. I hope that these bureaucrats are
smart enough to make the visa process very easy and dignified for
people with worthwhile purposes, such as business meetings, technology
conferences, scholarly exchanges, exchange students, medical
treatments, charity activities… to promote mutual understanding,
benefits and growth among peoples.

I advised a few students in Argentina and Chile that public
universities in California actively recruit a lot of top talents from
many countries, paying tuition, activity fees and some living
expenses, providing part-time jobs in teaching or research, primarily
for graduate students in engineering and technologies, subsidized in
parts by research grants from the US government. I heard that each
department in each school has opening for 10 students from each major
country. Schools in other states are presumably taking advantages of
similar grant programs, so there should be a lot of openings. Of
course the situation changes from year to year, depending on how much
budget is left after the war against terrorists and the massive hiring
of people and buying equipment to improve homeland security.

Let's hope that we are all devoting our intelligence, energy and faith
in improving peace, prosperity and happiness for all peoples!


Joăo Luiz wrote in message ...

I met some Italian tourists in Argentina who claimed they were charged
US$140 for the visa, which they promptly skipped! These Italian
tourists are wealthy and they could easily afford the visa fee. They
could easily spend US$3000 per person or more, 20 times the visa fees
on Brazilian products and services if they visit Brazil! However,
these Italians did not think highly of the Brazilian government by its
visa requirements, so they decide not to bother visiting Brazil.


Sorry to say, but this information is as false as it can be.
No citizen from the European Union needs a tourist visa for Brazil,
the same way no Brazilians need any tourist visa for any country
in the EU.

I understand your logic, and to be sincere I do not get why some
Brazilians go through the humiliation of getting a visa for the
USA, when they could be spending their hard earned money in a
place that treats them with a lot more dignity like Europe.


I wanted to go to Rio to see the Carnaval, but it turns out to be a
big disappointment. This festival is now organized in a staged
location downtown Rio, called the Sambadromo, near the favela slum
areas.


If you had asked before, we could have warned you about the tourist
trap Rio's Carnival has turned into.
Any place e.g. in the Northeastern coast beats it by far.


Sorry to read about your bad experience, but if you ever think of
visiting Brazil again, my counsel is: just skip Rio.

JL

  #25  
Old March 8th, 2004, 03:10 AM
P E T E R P A N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

Dear JohnM,

For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter
of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot
of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions.
I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential
violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown
Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local
Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious
injuries that night!

You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying
to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not
sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding
with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you
have good, unselfish motivations in this case!

When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few
houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I
was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across
the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other
corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was
very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards
the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first
thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel
Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response
from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that "
POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had
to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I
saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran
towards them.

When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been
the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure
if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in
distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not
interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted
very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times
everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their
willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective
after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to
get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel!

A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have
since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found,
through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the
Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day
who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on
someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata
Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and
fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of
Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve
excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad
attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in
Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time.

My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the
events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not
stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions
on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new
friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain
at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people
emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all!

Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of
the list of countries I want to visit!


JohnM wrote in message ...
In article , P E T E R
P A N writes

-- snip snip --

I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to
buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a
dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I
stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark,
scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me
in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the
pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in
Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the
street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with
both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time,
out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us
from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted.
Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs.


-- snip snip --

Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street
wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out
of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the
guy attacked you 'as you walked out'?

  #26  
Old March 8th, 2004, 08:26 PM
JohnM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

In article , P E T E R
P A N writes
Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of
the list of countries I want to visit!


I thought you had. Never mind.

--
JohnM
Author of Brazil: Life, Blood, Soul
http://www.scroll.demon.co.uk/spaver.htm




  #27  
Old March 9th, 2004, 09:33 AM
Kurko
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

Hello!

Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the
night in any major
city in the world.

Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool.


Kurko

On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N
wrote:

Dear JohnM,

For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter
of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot
of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions.
I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential
violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown
Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local
Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious
injuries that night!

You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying
to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not
sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding
with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you
have good, unselfish motivations in this case!

When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few
houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I
was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across
the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other
corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was
very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards
the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first
thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel
Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response
from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that "
POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had
to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I
saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran
towards them.

When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been
the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure
if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in
distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not
interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted
very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times
everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their
willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective
after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to
get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel!

A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have
since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found,
through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the
Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day
who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on
someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata
Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and
fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of
Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve
excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad
attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in
Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time.

My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the
events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not
stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions
on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new
friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain
at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people
emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all!

Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of
the list of countries I want to visit!


JohnM wrote in message
...
In article , P E T E R
P A N writes

-- snip snip --

I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to
buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a
dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I
stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark,
scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me
in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the
pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in
Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the
street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with
both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time,
out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us
from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted.
Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs.


-- snip snip --

Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street
wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out
of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the
guy attacked you 'as you walked out'?





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
  #28  
Old March 9th, 2004, 05:34 PM
P E T E R P A N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

I walked many cities at night, including LA, San Francisco, New York,
Miami, London, Paris, Rome, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, Singapore, Kuala
Lumpur, Denpasar, Jakarta, Buenos Aires, Montevideo ... without any
problems!

It is the stupid, nasty *sshole like you and dumb thugs, thieves,
robbers and the savages, who would p*ss on sidewalks and someone else'
cars on the busy streets of Rio in broad day light, who should be
removed from the gene pool! Stupid, ignorant nasty trash like you are
a shame and a grave threat for all mankind!

As everyone can see, this nasty guy Kurko confirms that Brazil is a
very unsafe, lawless place, populated by a lot of dumb savages like
himself. Visitors to Brazil, Rio and Sao Paolo, have a very high
probability of getting robbed or beaten. Don't expect local people to
help when you need it!


Kurko wrote in message ...
Hello!

Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the
night in any major
city in the world.

Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool.


Kurko

On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N
wrote:

Dear JohnM,

For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter
of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot
of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions.
I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential
violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown
Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local
Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious
injuries that night!

You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying
to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not
sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding
with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you
have good, unselfish motivations in this case!

When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few
houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I
was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across
the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other
corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was
very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards
the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first
thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel
Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response
from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that "
POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had
to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I
saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran
towards them.

When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been
the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure
if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in
distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not
interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted
very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times
everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their
willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective
after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to
get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel!

A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have
since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found,
through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the
Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day
who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on
someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata
Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and
fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of
Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve
excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad
attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in
Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time.

My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the
events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not
stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions
on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new
friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain
at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people
emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all!

Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of
the list of countries I want to visit!


JohnM wrote in message
...
In article , P E T E R
P A N writes

-- snip snip --

I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to
buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a
dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I
stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark,
scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me
in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the
pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in
Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the
street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with
both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time,
out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us
from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted.
Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs.

-- snip snip --

Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street
wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out
of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the
guy attacked you 'as you walked out'?


  #29  
Old March 9th, 2004, 09:30 PM
clint
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

Tell us how you really feel?
"Kurko" wrote in message
news
Hello!

Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the
night in any major
city in the world.

Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool.


Kurko

On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N
wrote:

Dear JohnM,

For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter
of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot
of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions.
I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential
violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown
Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local
Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious
injuries that night!

You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying
to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not
sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding
with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you
have good, unselfish motivations in this case!

When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few
houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I
was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across
the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other
corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was
very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards
the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first
thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel
Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP." but there were no response
from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that "
POLICIA ." may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had
to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I
saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran
towards them.

When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been
the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure
if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in
distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not
interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted
very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times
everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their
willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective
after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to
get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel!

A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have
since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found,
through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the
Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day
who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on
someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata
Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and
fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of
Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve
excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad
attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in
Rio, Sao Paolo etc. which I will write down when I have time.

My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the
events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not
stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions
on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new
friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain
at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people
emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all!

Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of
the list of countries I want to visit!


JohnM wrote in message
...
In article , P E T E R
P A N writes

-- snip snip --

I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to
buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a
dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I
stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark,
scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me
in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the
pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in
Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the
street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with
both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time,
out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us
from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted.
Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs.

-- snip snip --

Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street
wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out
of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if

the
guy attacked you 'as you walked out'?





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



  #30  
Old March 10th, 2004, 02:43 AM
H. Michel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Travelling to Rio

I can sympathize with your experience. Being threatened or robbed or
assaulted in a country one is travelling in is always very unsettling
and can leave one with negative feelings about a country. Ignore the
ignorant comments from whoever it is.

But I still think it is important to not colour a whole nation by your
experiences. Some places have more crime than others but crime can
happen to anyone anywhere.

My family and I have travelled a lot in many parts of the world. The
only bad experiences we have had have been in Amsterdam, Panama City,
and Copan, Honduras (we were only witnesses here, not personally
threatened) And yet, overall, the experiences in those countries were
still favourable on balance. I can't blame all the Dutch or all the
Panamanians.

It is important to deal with the feelings of fear, anger and violation
after being assaulted like that and to overcome the negative feeling so
you can go on to experience other travels feeling cautious and alert but
not paranoid.

P E T E R P A N wrote:
I walked many cities at night, including LA, San Francisco, New York,
Miami, London, Paris, Rome, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, Singapore, Kuala
Lumpur, Denpasar, Jakarta, Buenos Aires, Montevideo ... without any
problems!

It is the stupid, nasty *sshole like you and dumb thugs, thieves,
robbers and the savages, who would p*ss on sidewalks and someone else'
cars on the busy streets of Rio in broad day light, who should be
removed from the gene pool! Stupid, ignorant nasty trash like you are
a shame and a grave threat for all mankind!

As everyone can see, this nasty guy Kurko confirms that Brazil is a
very unsafe, lawless place, populated by a lot of dumb savages like
himself. Visitors to Brazil, Rio and Sao Paolo, have a very high
probability of getting robbed or beaten. Don't expect local people to
help when you need it!


Kurko wrote in message ...

Hello!

Excuse me, but by all means who is such a stupid **** to walk during the
night in any major
city in the world.

Actually these "thugs" should've removed you from the genepool.


Kurko

On 7 Mar 2004 18:10:33 -0800, P E T E R P A N
wrote:


Dear JohnM,

For one thing, the entire incident happened very quickly, in a matter
of 1 or 2 minutes. I was in fear for my life and I did not have a lot
of time or in position to think of all alternative courses of actions.
I just acted instinctively. This was the first time I faced potential
violence in some 30 years. I was never in more fear, even in downtown
Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York City at night! The local
Brazilians all think I was very lucky to escape death or serious
injuries that night!

You could have suggested precautions or solutions, rather than trying
to pick holes in my story, which just shows that you are not
sympathetic to a lone tourist in distress, but are probably siding
with the thugs, victimizing unsuspecting preys! I do not believe you
have good, unselfish motivations in this case!

When the initial thug confronted me, I had walked past the café a few
houses. The customers were sitting inside the cafe due to the rain. I
was roughly past the Hotel Mirasol with its large glass front across
the street. When I glanced other thugs running toward me from other
corners, a vision of my lifeless body lying in a pool of blood was
very clear in my head! Instinctlively I felt back tracking towards
the café would put me closer to the incoming thugs. I pulled the first
thug out to the middle of the street, roughly in front of the hotel
Mirasol, and screamed "HELP, HELP, HELP…" but there were no response
from anyone, anywhere. In a matter of seconds, I decided that "
POLICIA …" may work better and immediately started bellowing. I had
to make quick decisions and ran fast basically to save my own life. I
saw running cars with head lights on Rebata Reveiro and I quickly ran
towards them.

When I rethink the whole incident, the closest hotel would have been
the Mirasol, which would have staff in the lobby. But I am not sure
if they would bother to open their door to assist a tourist in
distress. The Copacabana Hotel Residencia was definitely not
interested in helping or taking any actions. The police also acted
very casually, as if they ran into these violent incidents many times
everyday. Despite the warm personality of the policemen and their
willingness to help, I had reservations that they could be effective
after dealing with them. I had my distrust then, and I declined to
get into their patrol cars for the search or to return to the hotel!

A number of people, presumably with more experience in Brazil, have
since written me private emails suggesting I skip Brazil. I found,
through my own experience, some serious flaws of characters in the
Brazilian people in Rio, such as the couple guys I found the first day
who would pee openly on the streets in broad day light, sometimes on
someone else cars' doors, right on very busy streets like Rebata
Reveiro or Copacabana. Every street in Copacabana stinks of urine and
fresh sewage! These are bad things that happened in the best parts of
Rio, not in the favela, where the impoverished residents may deserve
excuses for their uncivil actions. I also found some disturbingly bad
attitudes among various young, old, educated and wealthy Brazilians in
Rio, Sao Paolo etc… which I will write down when I have time.

My opinions of Brazil and her people, after much reviews of the
events, facts and rationalizations, to be honest, very low. I do not
stand to gain or lose anything by posting my information and opinions
on Brazil. I do it only to inform fellow travelers. I advised a new
friend in Rio, a pretty girl from Spain, against walking in the rain
at night in Rio which she felt was romantic! A number of people
emailed me suggesting not walking in Rio at all!

Your attitude helps convince me firmly that Brazil is not on top of
the list of countries I want to visit!


JohnM wrote in message
...

In article , P E T E R
P A N writes

-- snip snip --


I had gotten out of the internet store late at night and stopped to
buy cigarettes at a small coffee shop next door, which still had a
dozen people, customers and waiters. As I walked out of the shop, I
stopped on the sidewalk to lit a cigarette. That was when this dark,
scruffy guy, wearing a white shirt, came out of nowhere, talking to me
in Portugeese. I thought he wanted a cigarette so I offered him the
pack. He ignored my offer, kept talking firmly and threateiningly in
Portugeeze, repeating the phrase "No problem...". I moved out to the
street. He blocked my way, grabbing and holding my shirt firmly with
both hands. I pulled away, he refused to let go. At the same time,
out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a few other guys running toward us

from the dark street corners. The street was dark, wet and deserted.

Suddenly there was noone on the street but the thugs.

-- snip snip --

Erm, continuity problem there, as my editor might say. Was the street
wet, dark and deserted, despite the coffee-shop you had just walked out
of with its dozen people inside? Why didn't you just walk back in if the
guy attacked you 'as you walked out'?


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
travelling by coach Gudrun Europe 5 January 18th, 2004 07:26 AM
Travelling to India with a laptop? Rohit Air travel 30 December 8th, 2003 03:04 PM
Travelling to India with a laptop? Rohit Travel - anything else not covered 30 December 8th, 2003 03:04 PM
Travelling alone to Goa JD Asia 2 September 30th, 2003 01:42 AM
Best airline for travelling with under 5s Aaron Aardvark Australia & New Zealand 13 September 29th, 2003 07:39 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.