How much money for one year in Asia???

Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
me wrote:
What startles me though is that, initially (before I got bored with
your remarks and started being a little naughty), I DID give genuine,
real travel information that answered the original poster's questions.

Check my first posts in this thread and ask people who actually
travelled for a long time (Miguel, for example) what they think. Do
they think the info I gave is incorrect?

My observations:

1) Sometimes people get offended when others choose to do things
differently. I'm not sure why that is. Some of the arguments all around seem
to be rationalizations of that offense.

Agreed.

2) The $20 figure seems perfectly doable to me so long as the year includes
substantial time in low-cost places. Without a doubt there are people who
travel for a whole lot less than that, and I think the people that Thomas
observed and found annoying were really $5/day people, not $20/day people.

I agree with most of what you said, but not this part. I don't know
specifically what he found annoying, but the $20/day people that I've
encountered in Thailand, Nepal, Indonesia are some of the most
offensive people around.

(I should put in a caveat that *MOST* people are good and decent
people, regardless of who they are, where they are from, or how much
money they are spending. But "on a per capita basis", the $20/day
people are the worst.)

What I found most offensive is the patronizing attitude they seem to
have. They treat locals as if they were zoo animals or country fair
attractions to be observed and often mocked.

Their hygiene is often questionable, but they don't seem to notice as
they are too drunk or stoned to recognize odors.

They also are the ones who say "unless you live like this you can't
understand the local culture". That means, of course, that in their
opinions only the poorest of the poor in any country actually have any
culture and that employment and education are traitorous to local
civilization and that becoming Middle Class is "selling out".

They are the source of many local's stereotypes about tourists. Again,
it's the minority. But it's a large minority and their behavior is so
offensive that it overshadows the decent behavior of the majority.

3) Different people fundamentally have different tolerances for various
levels of privation. Some people genuinely don't care about different things
like A/C, visual appearance of a hotel room, or even cleanliness. Other
people definitely do. Neither of these people is better or worse than the
other. But everyone has to recognize for themselves what matters to them,
and accept the reality that it may affect how much travel will cost. I know
I could spend a lot less money traveling if I weren't bothered by mosquitos
in the room and stains on the sheets. But I know people who really don't
notice or care, and I don't begrudge them the 50% less than me they're
paying for their room.

Agreed.

4) Fundamentally, the person is asking if something is possible, and the
answer is yes. I think everyone has acknowledged that. What remains is
whether it's desirable. And that's very much up to the original poster (or
to any lurker who happens to be reading all this as they make up their own
minds about possible plans).

And agreed, again. 3 out of four ain't bad.

Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
me wrote:
What startles me though is that, initially (before I got bored with
your remarks and started being a little naughty), I DID give genuine,
real travel information that answered the original poster's questions.

Check my first posts in this thread and ask people who actually
travelled for a long time (Miguel, for example) what they think. Do
they think the info I gave is incorrect?

My observations:

1) Sometimes people get offended when others choose to do things
differently. I'm not sure why that is. Some of the arguments all around seem
to be rationalizations of that offense.

Agreed.

2) The $20 figure seems perfectly doable to me so long as the year includes
substantial time in low-cost places. Without a doubt there are people who
travel for a whole lot less than that, and I think the people that Thomas
observed and found annoying were really $5/day people, not $20/day people.

I agree with most of what you said, but not this part. I don't know
specifically what he found annoying, but the $20/day people that I've
encountered in Thailand, Nepal, Indonesia are some of the most
offensive people around.

(I should put in a caveat that *MOST* people are good and decent
people, regardless of who they are, where they are from, or how much
money they are spending. But "on a per capita basis", the $20/day
people are the worst.)

What I found most offensive is the patronizing attitude they seem to
have. They treat locals as if they were zoo animals or country fair
attractions to be observed and often mocked.

Their hygiene is often questionable, but they don't seem to notice as
they are too drunk or stoned to recognize odors.

They also are the ones who say "unless you live like this you can't
understand the local culture". That means, of course, that in their
opinions only the poorest of the poor in any country actually have any
culture and that employment and education are traitorous to local
civilization and that becoming Middle Class is "selling out".

They are the source of many local's stereotypes about tourists. Again,
it's the minority. But it's a large minority and their behavior is so
offensive that it overshadows the decent behavior of the majority.

3) Different people fundamentally have different tolerances for various
levels of privation. Some people genuinely don't care about different things
like A/C, visual appearance of a hotel room, or even cleanliness. Other
people definitely do. Neither of these people is better or worse than the
other. But everyone has to recognize for themselves what matters to them,
and accept the reality that it may affect how much travel will cost. I know
I could spend a lot less money traveling if I weren't bothered by mosquitos
in the room and stains on the sheets. But I know people who really don't
notice or care, and I don't begrudge them the 50% less than me they're
paying for their room.

Agreed.

4) Fundamentally, the person is asking if something is possible, and the
answer is yes. I think everyone has acknowledged that. What remains is
whether it's desirable. And that's very much up to the original poster (or
to any lurker who happens to be reading all this as they make up their own
minds about possible plans).

And agreed, again. 3 out of four ain't bad.

me wrote in message . ..
It's amazing
how cheap and how good and how immensily interesting life in a quiet
privincial town can be, as I am sure you know, having a house out
there.



a quiet provincial town in Thailand, I mean

As opposed to Germany? :-)

me wrote in message . ..
It's amazing
how cheap and how good and how immensily interesting life in a quiet
privincial town can be, as I am sure you know, having a house out
there.



a quiet provincial town in Thailand, I mean

As opposed to Germany? :-)

me wrote in message . ..

Losing weight? In Asia? How could one possibly lose weight in Asia?

By not being able to afford to eat that much.


Afford? Do you mean physically or financially? Or do you mean finding
food is a problem? I can hardly believe the last as personally I
cannot stop eating in Asia, all the time, everywhere.

Since the limitation being discussed was financial, that's what I'm
referring to. Lots of food available. If you're not used to the local
cooking you're asking for a bit of gastric discomfort if you eat at
the $1 a meal places.

Mosquitos? Well yeah, there are mosquitos, if you spend 5$ a day or
100$ a day, same same.

No. If you spend $5 a day on a cheap guest house you'll find you have
bigger mosquito problems at night than if you stay in a good quality
hotel.

True to a certain extent. If you stay in a 5$ cheap guesthouse, take a
mosquito net. Or travel in the non-mozzie season. Never seen a
mosquito during the Thai winter (and no, I don't travel in really,
really, remote jungle areas and I don't think the average visitor does
either).

Transportation expenses? This remark shows you
haven't travelled that much in Asia.

I'm a legal resident of Indonesia. I have a house in Thailand. I spend
probably 10-11 months a year in Asia. In the last 15 years I've
probably spent a total of about 10 years cumulative in Asia.

You?


Some people spend 5 years hanging around Bangkok ('teaching') or
around Pattaya ('doing business'haha) so the amount you have 'spent'
in Asia isn't really relevant.

Note that I am a *RESIDENT* of Indonesia. I don't hang around bars or
spend my time "Teaching English". If you've read much of my "works"
you'll see I have a similar attitude toward the people you're talking
about above. But I have lived and worked in Asia for years. And that
means a real, full time job (as opposed to being an "English
Teacher").

Personally I never even include
transportation expenses in my cost calculation. You can travel from
Beijing to Kashgar for less than 100$,

And if you're on a $20 a day budget you don't include $100 in your
calculations????

No, I don't. Travelling from Beijing to Kashgar, if done at leisurely
pace, takes say 3 to 4 months. That's 1$ a day. Istanbul to Delhi,
easily 6 months, like half a dollar a day. The Indochina loop, easily
3 months or so, again a dollar a day. --- So, yes, transportation
expenses are irrelevant.


Gimme a break, come on. We're talking Asia, not the US.

That's right. And if you're willing to live poor, you can make it on
that amount. If not, you can't.

Live poor? I've never lived poor. I have always stayed in OK hotels
(not the 3$ dodgy places), I have always eaten very well (never even
got sick in India), I have always travelled very slowly so I could
learn to find the good deals and learnt the real prices. It's amazing
how cheap and how good and how immensily interesting life in a quiet
privincial town can be, as I am sure you know, having a house out
there.

me wrote in message . ..

Losing weight? In Asia? How could one possibly lose weight in Asia?

By not being able to afford to eat that much.


Afford? Do you mean physically or financially? Or do you mean finding
food is a problem? I can hardly believe the last as personally I
cannot stop eating in Asia, all the time, everywhere.

Since the limitation being discussed was financial, that's what I'm
referring to. Lots of food available. If you're not used to the local
cooking you're asking for a bit of gastric discomfort if you eat at
the $1 a meal places.

Mosquitos? Well yeah, there are mosquitos, if you spend 5$ a day or
100$ a day, same same.

No. If you spend $5 a day on a cheap guest house you'll find you have
bigger mosquito problems at night than if you stay in a good quality
hotel.

True to a certain extent. If you stay in a 5$ cheap guesthouse, take a
mosquito net. Or travel in the non-mozzie season. Never seen a
mosquito during the Thai winter (and no, I don't travel in really,
really, remote jungle areas and I don't think the average visitor does
either).

Transportation expenses? This remark shows you
haven't travelled that much in Asia.

I'm a legal resident of Indonesia. I have a house in Thailand. I spend
probably 10-11 months a year in Asia. In the last 15 years I've
probably spent a total of about 10 years cumulative in Asia.

You?


Some people spend 5 years hanging around Bangkok ('teaching') or
around Pattaya ('doing business'haha) so the amount you have 'spent'
in Asia isn't really relevant.

Note that I am a *RESIDENT* of Indonesia. I don't hang around bars or
spend my time "Teaching English". If you've read much of my "works"
you'll see I have a similar attitude toward the people you're talking
about above. But I have lived and worked in Asia for years. And that
means a real, full time job (as opposed to being an "English
Teacher").

Personally I never even include
transportation expenses in my cost calculation. You can travel from
Beijing to Kashgar for less than 100$,

And if you're on a $20 a day budget you don't include $100 in your
calculations????

No, I don't. Travelling from Beijing to Kashgar, if done at leisurely
pace, takes say 3 to 4 months. That's 1$ a day. Istanbul to Delhi,
easily 6 months, like half a dollar a day. The Indochina loop, easily
3 months or so, again a dollar a day. --- So, yes, transportation
expenses are irrelevant.


Gimme a break, come on. We're talking Asia, not the US.

That's right. And if you're willing to live poor, you can make it on
that amount. If not, you can't.

Live poor? I've never lived poor. I have always stayed in OK hotels
(not the 3$ dodgy places), I have always eaten very well (never even
got sick in India), I have always travelled very slowly so I could
learn to find the good deals and learnt the real prices. It's amazing
how cheap and how good and how immensily interesting life in a quiet
privincial town can be, as I am sure you know, having a house out
there.

I agree a lot of people travelling around are all you said,
patronizing, unhygienic, often drunk and stoned, disrespectful,
ignorant, preaching about culture and so on and so on... BUT aren't
you judging people who want (or need) to travel on a low budget AND
the obnoxious people you'll unfortuantely find everywhere the same
way?

I agree a lot of people travelling around are all you said,
patronizing, unhygienic, often drunk and stoned, disrespectful,
ignorant, preaching about culture and so on and so on... BUT aren't
you judging people who want (or need) to travel on a low budget AND
the obnoxious people you'll unfortuantely find everywhere the same
way?

Tchiowa kirjoitti:


money they are spending. But "on a per capita basis", the $20/day
people are the worst.)

What I found most offensive is the patronizing attitude they seem to
have. They treat locals as if they were zoo animals or country fair
attractions to be observed and often mocked.

Their hygiene is often questionable, but they don't seem to notice as
they are too drunk or stoned to recognize odors.



Laundry is cheap in Asia. Alcohol is pretty expensive in many parts of
Asia. Those with a tight budget are mostly saved from the curse of
booze. They are not like me who can sip a dozen of bottles of beer or
more a day.

Tchiowa kirjoitti:


money they are spending. But "on a per capita basis", the $20/day
people are the worst.)

What I found most offensive is the patronizing attitude they seem to
have. They treat locals as if they were zoo animals or country fair
attractions to be observed and often mocked.

Their hygiene is often questionable, but they don't seem to notice as
they are too drunk or stoned to recognize odors.



Laundry is cheap in Asia. Alcohol is pretty expensive in many parts of
Asia. Those with a tight budget are mostly saved from the curse of
booze. They are not like me who can sip a dozen of bottles of beer or
more a day.