Arizona, Show Your Papers? So What!

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

Hatunen wrote;
but in Arizona, yes. However, that would
be during a just-cause stop. The Arizona
law makes mere suspicion of illegal
migration status "just Cause".

Burt Hyman wrote;
Don't think so; if you can find that in the
text of the law, I'd like to see it.

Ditto.
BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

Hatunen wrote;
but in Arizona, yes. However, that would
be during a just-cause stop. The Arizona
law makes mere suspicion of illegal
migration status "just Cause".

Burt Hyman wrote;
Don't think so; if you can find that in the
text of the law, I'd like to see it.

Ditto.
BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the law
yet? Does it say what you said it does?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the law
yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In Hatunen
wrote:

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the
law yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.


Have you looked at the actual text of the law yet? Does it say what you
said it does?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

Hatunen wrote:

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the law
yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.

Define "reasonable suspicion" in other contexts. If the person
speaks no English, that's a start.

From: Hatunen
Organization: As little as possible
Newsgroups:
alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,aus.politics,soc.retireme nt,rec.tr
avel.europe
Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 11:38:43 -0700
Subject: Arizona, Show Your Papers? So What!

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the law
yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.

In a previous post you mentioned the roadblock checks that take place inland
from the border. In 1983 my French neighbor and I ran into one of these,
coming up from San Diego to Los Angeles on the freeway. We, like all the
other northbound drivers, were pulled over. Our visit with the patrolman
was very brief. He took one look at us, saw that we were white blondes of
northern European origin, and waved us on. The irony of the story is that
at that time we were, in fact, undocumented. I was an American citizen, but
could not prove it. My French neighbor was a visitor on a tourist visa
which had not expired, but could not prove it. The reason we were
undocumented was because all our documents had been stolen in an 1 AM
burglary of our motel room in a suburb of Los Angeles. All we had to prove
what we said was the police report of the burglary (no arrest). But in our
case, there was apparently no "reasonable suspicion".

I too would like a definition.

Donna Evleth


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 07 May 2010 18:42:33 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the
law yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.


Have you looked at the actual text of the law yet? Does it say what you
said it does?

Pretty much. (It's not a law, though. Not yet.) It is in a second
revision and some of the flakeier langauge has been altered.



--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Fri, 07 May 2010 19:26:27 +0000, "Bill Bonde {Colourless green
ideas don't sleep furiously)"
wrote:



Hatunen wrote:

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the law
yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.

Define "reasonable suspicion" in other contexts. If the person
speaks no English, that's a start.

Perfectly legal immigrants may speak little or no English. And
quite illegal immigrants may speak flawless English. But you
won't find out what the person's speech abilities are until
you've alrteady stopped him.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In Hatunen
wrote:

On 07 May 2010 18:42:33 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the
law yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.


Have you looked at the actual text of the law yet? Does it say what
you said it does?

Pretty much.

Does it say what you said it does?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

On Fri, 07 May 2010 21:45:39 +0200, Donna Evleth
wrote:



From: Hatunen
Organization: As little as possible
Newsgroups:
alt.activism.death-penalty,uk.politics.misc,aus.politics,soc.retireme nt,rec.tr
avel.europe
Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 11:38:43 -0700
Subject: Arizona, Show Your Papers? So What!

On 07 May 2010 18:23:37 GMT, Bert Hyman wrote:

In Hatunen
wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:29:58 -0400, (Poetic
Justice) wrote:

BTW suspicion/instinct/common sense is an excellent tool of law
enforcement for *all* types of crime. Regards, Walter

It's also been a means of doing whatever the cop wants to do. For
isntance, it's not uncommon for police to decide that any black
person driving a very expensive sports car is suspicious.

All very interesting, but have you looked at the actual text of the law
yet? Does it say what you said it does?

Define "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.

In a previous post you mentioned the roadblock checks that take place inland
from the border. In 1983 my French neighbor and I ran into one of these,
coming up from San Diego to Los Angeles on the freeway.

It's still there on I-5, and it's kind of famous. There are
highway signs with silhouettes of running people on them as a
warning to drivers taht tehre mey be people on the road. The
coyotes bringing in illegals will let them out of thevehicle a
mile or so ahead and tell them to walk to teh other side.

We, like all the
other northbound drivers, were pulled over. Our visit with the patrolman
was very brief. He took one look at us, saw that we were white blondes of
northern European origin, and waved us on.

Yep. Us, too.

The irony of the story is that
at that time we were, in fact, undocumented. I was an American citizen, but
could not prove it. My French neighbor was a visitor on a tourist visa
which had not expired, but could not prove it. The reason we were
undocumented was because all our documents had been stolen in an 1 AM
burglary of our motel room in a suburb of Los Angeles. All we had to prove
what we said was the police report of the burglary (no arrest). But in our
case, there was apparently no "reasonable suspicion".

I too would like a definition.

Yep. Therein lies potential abuse of the law. Here in Tucson in
the winter we get a lot of "snowbirds", people who come from
colder climates with RVs or to leased flats to enjoy the winter
without snow. Many of them drive vehicles with Canadian license
plates. I doubt any of them will ever be stopped to check on the
legality of their presence.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *