Questions about Vietnam Experience

We're considering a trip to Viet Nam. We like wandering around on our
own, particularly in large, exotic cities, but prefer some help in
smaller, less touristic places. We were fine in, for example,
Shanghai or Bangkok, but felt better with a driver in Chiang Mai and a
local guide in Yangon and Guilin.

We spent a day in Saigon off a cruise ship, 10 years ago. My
recollection is of being hounded by souvenir vendors and begging
children, and few memorable sights except for a few related to the
war.

My questions:

Have things changed a lot? Is Saigon / Ho Chi Minh City worth
spending time in? Would we be comfortable on our own in Saigon, Hanoi
and/or Hue? Would we still be hounded by children and vendors?

How comfortable or uncomfortable is the Victoria train to Sapa?

We like river cruising. Should we spend a week on the Pandaw on the
Mekong, or dawdle around more in the coastal centers?

Thanks for any help.

In article , Walt Bilofsky
says...

Have things changed a lot? Is Saigon / Ho Chi Minh City worth
spending time in? Would we be comfortable on our own in Saigon, Hanoi
and/or Hue? Would we still be hounded by children and vendors?

I spent 10 days in Vietnam last December:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Vietnam/2006/

Was on my own and wasn't harassed by anybody. No vendors, no begging
children, nobody caring about me. Vietnam's economy is rapidly
developing and locals have discovered that there is more money to make
by working than by harassing tourists.

I had mixed feelings about Saigon, because there is not that much to do.
One day is enough for the historic centre, then there are some temples
spread around and that's it. Tay Ninh and the Cao Dai ceremony are cute
and photogenic. I didn't visit the Mekong delta, because I've already
seen enough of the Mekong elsewhere.

In Hue and Hoi An I had my own car+driver, which made it easy to visit a
good number of places in a short time. Many things to see in Hue, but it
rained on that day. Hoi An is cute, very cute but gets boring after a
day or two.

Hanoi is kind of interesting, has many colonial era buildings, several
palaces, monuments, but is not really jaw-dropping. The Halong bay is
very nice if the weather is good.

I'm in the process of uploading all my Vietnam photos. You can see the
intermediate result he
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Vietnam/
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

In article , Alfred Molon
says...

Have things changed a lot? Is Saigon / Ho Chi Minh City worth
spending time in? Would we be comfortable on our own in Saigon, Hanoi
and/or Hue? Would we still be hounded by children and vendors?

I should add that Phnom Penh (Cambodia) is a very nice city. Was very
surprised when I visited it. It's a mix of Bangkok and Paris, but much,
much smaller and less chaotic, very laid back with not so much traffic
in the streets. Security has also improved a lot in recent years. There
is not an overwhelming number of places to see, but what they have is
very nice: Buddhist temples, a royal palace compound, lots of French
colonial architecture. The riverfront is great, with lots of cafes and
restaurants where to sit down and relax. It's ideal for two, max three
days, then it probably gets boring.
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:08:59 +0200, Alfred Molon wrote:

I should add that Phnom Penh (Cambodia) is a very nice city. Was very
surprised when I visited it.

Agree!

http://pedalo.dk/cambodia/phnompenh/index.html

--
hilsen pl (peloda hos tiscali her i landet)
http://huse-i-naestved.dk

Have things changed a lot?

Has Vietnam changed in the past 10 years, of course. Is it still an
interesting tourist destination, certainly.

Vietnam like most developing countries in Asia has an abundance of
eager want-to-be tour guides and taxi drivers only too happy to show
you the local sights. The quality of their service will vary as will
the price.

Are these cities safe to wander around in. Overall, yes. The streets
of Saigon are difficult to walk across because of the traffic and lack
of motorist following any road rules. In the past 5 years the streets
in Hanoi have become equally hazardous.

Smaller cities like Hue are easier to walk around, however you really
need a car to visit most sights.

Hoi An is a very nice well preserved ancient town. Sort of a back-
packers haven, but becoming main stream.

Are there touts trying to sell you stuff, lot's of them. They're not
as aggressive as some of the Asian countries, like parts of Cambodia,
Phnom Penh for instance, but more so than others, the touts in Laos
for instance are very laid back.

The train to (Lao Cai) Sapa, Victoria was sold out the day we wanted
to go so we ended up on the Tulico, next best after the Victoria. You
understand how the Victoria and other trains work. They are just a few
cars, they all hook up to the main freight train that goes between
Hanoi and Lao Cai. It's all one long train with the Victoria Cars and
the Tulico Cars all connected. Oh, the Tulico was comfortable, they
don't have much of a dining car, Victoria has a nice dining car.

The big problem with the train is it leaves at night (around 9:30P),
so you don't really see anything. And you get to Lao Cai at the crack
of dawn (around 6:00A). The same is true for the return schedule. The
train only goes to Lao Cai, Sapa is another hour or so away by car.

Getting around Sapa. We went to the Bac Ha market (Sundays only),
located around 2 hours drive from Sapa. Interesting if you've never
been to a local market. There is also a permanent market in Sapa, not
as exotic but good. You can easily walk around the town.

We had a van to drive us back to Hanoi. Long drive! But you can stop
at hilltribe villages along the way.

You didn't say of you prefer to travel like the backpackers or with a
little more elegance. Personally I like staying are really nice hotels
and having a private car and guide for sightseeing.

My suggestion to you, plan your itinerary and work with a reputable
travel agent or tour company and set up your sightseeing days and
hotels in advance. This way you will have an experienced guide with a
dependable driver (2 separate people) with you. You'll pay a little
more but you won't be wasting your time trying to negotiate with the
locals or picking your hotels based on what a hotel representative is
telling you at the airport.

Enjoy.

Geno

P.S. Obviously Alfred & I have very different tastes. Phnom Penh is
one of my least favorite cities in all of Asia. And I have traveled
extensively in every country in Asia and SE Asia with the exception of
Brunei, Nepal and Bhutan.

"geno.y" wrote:

You didn't say of you prefer to travel like the backpackers or with a
little more elegance. Personally I like staying are really nice hotels
and having a private car and guide for sightseeing.

Thanks for your comments.

We like to travel the same way you do.

From what you say, it doesn't sound like Sapa a must-see area,
although I get the impression from tour books that it is.

Would you say that it's better to go by private van between Hanoi and
Sapa? My wife prefers to avoid trains; she doesn't like the motion.

From what you say, it doesn't sound like Sapa a must-see area,
although I get the impression from tour books that it is.

Would you say that it's better to go by private van between Hanoi and
Sapa? My wife prefers to avoid trains; she doesn't like the motion.

It all depends on what you've seen in the past. The destination
features markets and hilltribe villages. Not to say, if you've seen
one you've seen them all. I don't believe that, but I do think you
must weigh the cost of traveling there verses what the tourist benefit
is. And I don't consider the cost to be cost in dollars so much as
cost in time.

You mentioned that you've been to Yangon, did you travel to Heho (Inle
Lake) and some of the villages around that area. Or have you seen the
hilltribes in Northern Thailand?

The villages in Thailand have electricity, most with running water,
TV's, and they have an array of goods to sell the tourist. In Myanmar
they may have no electricity and water from a well. Tourist are there
but not by the bus load.

Sapa hilltribes are somewhere between these two, but more like
Myanmar. Not too many tourist. The Sunday market at Bac Ha was of the
largest I've ever seen. There was everything from household items to
horses and dogs. Not much for sale that you or I would want. That
makes a good market in my book.

I think the drive down from Sapa took around 8 hours, mostly down
hill. The road isn't bad, only 2 lanes, so passing trucks can be nerve
wracking, like most developing countries. Expect the drive to take
longer going.

That said, it a days travel in each direction, or overnight by train.
The good part about the train is it is over night, so you don't waste
a day on the road. But the bad part about the train is it is over
night, you don't get to see anything.

Geno

In article .com,
geno.y says...

P.S. Obviously Alfred & I have very different tastes. Phnom Penh is
one of my least favorite cities in all of Asia. And I have traveled
extensively in every country in Asia and SE Asia with the exception of
Brunei, Nepal and Bhutan.

Why don't you like Phnom Penh?
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

Walt Bilofsky wrote:
We're considering a trip to Viet Nam. We like wandering around on our
own, particularly in large, exotic cities, but prefer some help in
smaller, less touristic places. We were fine in, for example,
Shanghai or Bangkok, but felt better with a driver in Chiang Mai and a
local guide in Yangon and Guilin.

We spent a day in Saigon off a cruise ship, 10 years ago. My
recollection is of being hounded by souvenir vendors and begging
children, and few memorable sights except for a few related to the
war.

My questions:

Have things changed a lot? Is Saigon / Ho Chi Minh City worth
spending time in? Would we be comfortable on our own in Saigon, Hanoi
and/or Hue? Would we still be hounded by children and vendors?

How comfortable or uncomfortable is the Victoria train to Sapa?

We like river cruising. Should we spend a week on the Pandaw on the
Mekong, or dawdle around more in the coastal centers?

Thanks for any help.

I just came back from Vietnam and can say that
Life is unexpensive

you cannot spend more than 5 dollars for a good meal in a good restaurant
( actually I spent 8 dollars in Saigon and Hanoi.. but it was in the very
best restaurants.. )
I took the plane from Saigon to Da namg it is about 50 dollars
taxi to Hoi An
bus to Hue ( if I well remmeber it was 2 or 3 dollars)
again plane from Hue to Hanoi again for 50 dollars

Then I went to Sapa by train.. it is comfortable enough and in Lao cai ( the
train station ) there are lots of minibuses that will take you to SAPA in
about 1.30 hours

you did not mention an excursion in Ha Long bay
I guess that was the best part of my trip
I took a 3days two nights on a junk excursion paid about 230 dollars ( but
you can spend as little as 50 dollars... )

It is an unforgettable experience.
there were no more than 14 tourists on the junk.
cabins were nice and clean. food fantastic.

and what you will see will be remembered for ever.
of course you will have to bargain whatever you do or buy
but cut everything about 50% and you will be near to the real price.
In sapa the women of the local tribes will assault you.. but after all it is
nice. it is part of the game.
a 60 minute massage was 5 dollars
you can get a hand made dress for about 5 to 10 dollars.
I bought a pair of silk kimonos or about 10 dollars..
but really Vietnam is the less expensive country that I have visited till
now.
a home made beer will cost you about 2.000 dongs
a dollar brings you 16.000 dongs
a normal beer in a restaurant or bar will cost you about 10.000 dongs

Hue was the base of many excursions and folk show on
a boat..
Hanoi the base for many excursions
But Saigon and Hanoi will not deserve more than one day
Saigon has millions of motorbikes
Hanoi is a little better

I guess Viet nam today is a nice surpris.
Toll roads .. buildings.. everything is under construction

People are good and friendly
some of them speak english
but they will help you

I was in Hotel Sunway in Hanoi ( where the crew of the Presidential Plane
sleeps) and could walk directly to the centre in about 15 minutes.
I guess we paid no more than 80 dollars there..
but I guess that if you bargain it will be less
another thing.

internet is normally free in hotels in Vietnam. good speed and no problem
so prepare to buy
a lot of useless souvenirs
a lot of hand made dresses if you like
to eat in good restaurants at a price that you will never find in yr life..
and do not forget
Ha Long Bay is yr destination.. I would even spend a few days more there..

Alfred Molon wrote:
In article .com,
geno.y says...

P.S. Obviously Alfred & I have very different tastes. Phnom Penh is
one of my least favorite cities in all of Asia. And I have traveled
extensively in every country in Asia and SE Asia with the exception
of Brunei, Nepal and Bhutan.

Why don't you like Phnom Penh?

alfred.. I did not like Pnohm pehn either.. but that is because I like
monuments.. there is not much in the town to see.

the things I liked most were the markets. then I had a little paranoia as
everybody was warning about criminality
I made a nice boat excursion.. but nothing else..
and the town is more anonimous and expensive than other towns.
do you agree ?? ( and there were no ATM at the time of my visit.. )