world's worst tourists

Desmond Coughlan wrote:
I also understand one can't insult a civil servant in Germany.

Nor in France: 7,500 EUR fine, or the same plus six months in prison for
'rebellion' [2].

How do laws like this work? What if I point out a subjective matter which is
derotagory to the person, like "you are ugly" and I'm prepared to back it up
with a survey of popular attitudes towards the person's appearance? What if
I say they're not very good at their job? What if I say "you're quite tall"
and they take that as an insult because they always wanted to be short?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Markku Grönroos wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
How do laws like this work? What if I point out a subjective matter which
is derotagory to the person, like "you are ugly" and I'm prepared to back
it up with a survey of popular attitudes towards the person's appearance?
What if I say they're not very good at their job? What if I say "you're
quite tall" and they take that as an insult because they always wanted to
be short?

Thank you for agreeing. It's customary, however, to tack on a little note
like "I agree" or "me too".

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

le Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:43:32 GMT, dans l'article , Miguel Cruz a dit ...

I also understand one can't insult a civil servant in Germany.

Nor in France: 7,500 EUR fine, or the same plus six months in prison for
'rebellion' [2].

How do laws like this work? What if I point out a subjective matter which is
derotagory to the person, like "you are ugly" and I'm prepared to back it up
with a survey of popular attitudes towards the person's appearance? What if
I say they're not very good at their job? What if I say "you're quite tall"
and they take that as an insult because they always wanted to be short?

There's a difference between expressing an opinion, and insulting, IMHO.
Most people who get their collars felt for the above, are of the kind who
get stopped for speeding, and call the cop 'un pauvre con' [1], or who go
to the local social security office, get told that they're not getting any
money that day, and start screaming that the lady behind the counter is
'une sale pute' [2].

The view in French law is that people who serve the state, don't deserve to
be on the receiving end of such abuse. I find it hard to disagree, but as
an aside, there's nothing stopping any private citizen bringing a case
against someone, for having called them any of the above. The penalties
are lower, of course [3], but it's technically possible.

[1] a f*****g arsehole
[2] a dirty whore
[3] law of 29 July 1881
--
Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
http://www.zeouane.org/

le Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:52:38 +0300, dans l'article bmeoq2$5an$1@phys-new=
s1.kolumbus.fi, "Markku Gr=F6nroos" a dit ...=20

{ snip }

Keep this filthy **** away from r.t.asia. Actually you could establish =
an
e-mail ring instead. It has been a lot better for a couple of the last =
days
now. Make your contribution to keep it that way.

How many times do you have to be told that you're _not_ a netcop, you twa=
t?

--=20
Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
http://www.zeouane.org/=20

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:03:49 +0200, Desmond Coughlan
wrote:

le Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:43:32 GMT, dans l'article , Miguel Cruz a dit ...

I also understand one can't insult a civil servant in Germany.

Nor in France: 7,500 EUR fine, or the same plus six months in prison for
'rebellion' [2].

How do laws like this work? What if I point out a subjective matter which is
derotagory to the person, like "you are ugly" and I'm prepared to back it up
with a survey of popular attitudes towards the person's appearance? What if
I say they're not very good at their job? What if I say "you're quite tall"
and they take that as an insult because they always wanted to be short?

There's a difference between expressing an opinion, and insulting, IMHO.

Unfortunately, politicians and civil servants tend to get the two
confused themselves.

Most people who get their collars felt for the above, are of the kind who
get stopped for speeding, and call the cop 'un pauvre con' [1], or who go
to the local social security office, get told that they're not getting any
money that day, and start screaming that the lady behind the counter is
'une sale pute' [2].

Nonsense. Although it certainly happens, even here in the USA
where one can be severely inconvenienced if one feels inclined to
insult the cop who has stopped him in traffic.

The view in French law is that people who serve the state, don't deserve to
be on the receiving end of such abuse.

You have just struck on a fundamental difference with the USA. In
the USA politicians, civil servants, and even the police are
assumed to serve the public, not the state. This results in an
entirely different political philosophy. Famously, the motto on
the side of police cars in Los Angeles is "To serve and protect",
and it's not govverment officials who are supposed to be the
served and protected. Needless to say, this is sometimes more
observed in teh breach than teh ovservance, but it still
underlies how it is supposed to work.

I find it hard to disagree, but as
an aside, there's nothing stopping any private citizen bringing a case
against someone, for having called them any of the above. The penalties
are lower, of course [3], but it's technically possible.

The US Supreme Court definitively ruled a couple of decades ago
that public figures have less protection against defamation than
the general public, the more public, the less protection.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
Desmond Coughlan wrote:
I also understand one can't insult a civil servant in Germany.

Nor in France: 7,500 EUR fine, or the same plus six months in prison
for
'rebellion' [2].

How do laws like this work? What if I point out a subjective matter
which is
derotagory to the person, like "you are ugly" and I'm prepared to back
it up
with a survey of popular attitudes towards the person's appearance?
What if
I say they're not very good at their job? What if I say "you're quite
tall"
and they take that as an insult because they always wanted to be
short?

miguel
--

You gotta be more subtle:

"When I see you, time stands still" = "you have a face which would stop
a clock".
"With respect" = "you are a liar".
"With great respect" = "You are an inveterate liar". etc etc etc

Suggesting that someone is not very good at their job is not necessarily
regarded as an insult.

(Mixy will probably respond to this in his usual manner!).

JohnT

Desmond Coughlan wrote:
There's a difference between expressing an opinion, and insulting, IMHO.
Most people who get their collars felt for the above, are of the kind who
get stopped for speeding, and call the cop 'un pauvre con' [1], or who go
to the local social security office, get told that they're not getting any
money that day, and start screaming that the lady behind the counter is
'une sale pute' [2].

The view in French law is that people who serve the state, don't deserve to
be on the receiving end of such abuse.

What's the difference between the person at the social security office, and
the person at the bank or the phone company office?

If they've decided they're going to legislate politeness, it ought to at
least be equal-opportunity.

Personally, I'd say it should be the opposite: Anyone who is so immature as
to respond in any way but laughter to being called 'un pauvre con' or
anything else should be hauled off to re-education camp. All the power in
words like that comes from the recipient.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

le Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:14:36 +0300, dans l'article bmeq3b$bk5$1@phys-new=
s1.kolumbus.fi, "Markku Gr=F6nroos" a dit ...=20

Keep this filthy **** away from r.t.asia. Actually you could establi=
sh
an e-mail ring instead. It has been a lot better for a couple of the
last days now. Make your contribution to keep it that way.

How many times do you have to be told that you're _not_ a netcop, you
****?

How many times do you have to demonstrate your homosexuality?=20

Stop playing hard-to-get, lover ...=20

If you don't like it, just build a filter.=20

Maybe the one whingeing about off-topic posts, should consider that ...

There shouldn't be ANY reason to send these imbecile posters to r.t.asi=
a.
Redirect them into s.c.yid

It may come as a surprise to you, but most people don't look at the
headers. As a result, the crossposts that seem to upset you so much,
aren't made _deliberately_. You're in fact 'punishing' the posters of
news:rec.travel.europe, for something that they weren't (until recently)
aware that they were doing.=20=20

Aside from that, you're showing yourself to be an arsehole, and
guaranteeing that I for one, shall continue to crosspost, if for no other
reason than to annoy you.



--=20
Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
http://www.zeouane.org/=20

"Markku Grönroos" wrote:
Keep this filthy **** away from r.t.asia. Actually you could establish an
e-mail ring instead. It has been a lot better for a couple of the last
days now. Make your contribution to keep it that way.

You have posted in this thread more than any other person. Doesn't that seem
at least a bit hypocritical?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

le Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:42:59 +0300, dans l'article bmerpc$itd$1@phys-new=
s1.kolumbus.fi, "Markku Gr=F6nroos" a dit ...=20

{ snip }

You have posted in this thread more than any other person. Doesn't tha=
t
seem at least a bit hypocritical?

There seems to be a few bedouins, who persistently contaminated r.t.asi=
a
(and r.t.europe) with this ****. I just wonder why.

hint: stop being an adolescent net-cop, and we'll stop crossposting [1].


[1] well, I'll stop ... I can't speak for the others
--=20
Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
http://www.zeouane.org/=20