Cheap way to get to Tehran

Whether any place is a good place to visit depends on what you think
could happen. There are a couple of countries that they border which
are now probably off limits for the forseeable future for all but the
most adventurous (or stupid) visitors."

It's hard to believe now, but at one time there was a popular overland
route from Istanbul to Kathmandu through Turkey (passing through the
Kurdish region), Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India (passing through
Kashmir), and Nepal.

Sounds similar to what I read about in a book ("Wanderlust") by a fellow
named Dan Spitzer (sp?) long ago. I think his experiences in that book
took place some years after the end of the Vietnam war. Then he did
some writing for Lonely Planet after that, maybe still does.

The Australian travel writer Peter Moore tried doing that
Istanbul-Kathmandu route in 1994 as part of a London to Sydney overland
trip, and almost got killed in Afghanistan:

http://www.petermoore.net/wwh/slides/slide061.htm

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:57:04 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

Argh. You're absolutely right, it was Newark (EWR), and not JFK.
Iranian airspace apparently was an issue because they sometimes
delayed permission and made the flights late.

I don't doubt it, but that didn't happen on my flight. Who was
delaying permission? The Iranians? Why? On my flight, a flight
attendant told me that they had to be careful not to overfly _Iraq_,
because of the fighting going on there (the same issue would still
apply, I assume). Overflying Iran wasn't a problem.

I don't see Dubai (or anywhere else in the ME) on their list of
destinations now, though.
[snip]

I do:

http://hq.malaysiaairlines.com/mys/e...stinations.asp

The flight from New York (Newark, I figure?) apparently goes through
Stockholm now, which strikes me as very odd, but there are indeed
flights from KLIA to Dubai.

Michael

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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:47:54 GMT, the renowned Pan
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:57:04 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:


I don't doubt it, but that didn't happen on my flight. Who was
delaying permission? The Iranians? Why?

Yes, the Iranians. No idea why. The flight crew member who told us
implied it was concern on every flight, although it didn't happen on
our flights either. Anyway, it was a vacation and we had an overnight
layover in KL anyway, so we were not too concerned about minor delays.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
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wrote in message
ps.com...
"Whether any place is a good place to visit depends on what you think
could happen. There are a couple of countries that they border which
are now probably off limits for the forseeable future for all but the
most adventurous (or stupid) visitors."

It's hard to believe now, but at one time there was a popular overland
route from Istanbul to Kathmandu through Turkey (passing through the
Kurdish region), Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India (passing through
Kashmir), and Nepal.

I did that route in 73 (showing my age), but probably almost doubled the
distance by some zig-zagging on the way to include Syria, Lebanon, Israel,
Jordan and Iraq which required some care as going to Israel made it illegal
to visit at least Iraq afterwards. I was lucky to do it while it was
possible in something approaching safety. Iraq was the most disturbing for
me; no visible violence but Saddam Hussein was a Minister of something
(security?) and effectively running the place and building his power base
(by eliminating opponents I assume) and was also busy executing Jewish
Iraqis as Zionist spies. People were very wary of secret police and
informers, and as we had just come from Israel it was a bit uncomfortable.
Some of the visas were a pain to get especially Iraq who required proof of
being Christian (what they really meant was proof of not being Jewish, I
guess they did not think about British Muslims). A baptism certificate was
the usual proof (hint: you can buy books of blank ones in church supply
shops in London) but I was tempted to try indecent exposure as an indication
of non-circumcision.
Travel was all pretty basic, there were few decent hotels outside the
cities, and in many there was a routine dispute with the hotel staff to get
them to put clean sheets on the beds (their definition of a clean sheet was
one that did not look dirty, rather than our definition of being freshly
washed and especially being free of hairs from the previous tenant). Toilet
and hygiene standards in some areas are better not described
There were lots of European buses plying the route, mostly from UK & Holland
I think, some quite smart, others rock-bottom cheap ones with drivers
driving for days non-stop, high on speed etc. I went on an " rganised" bus
part of the way; the bus company had lost their previous two busses going
east, one in a rock-slide (in Kashmir I think), the other impounded after a
fatal accident. There were some amazing specimens of humanity on the trail,
especially those following the dope route with a vengeance. The odd riot,
war or coup occurred on route, mostly after we left each country.

After Nepal we went on through Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore then on a
ship to Sydney. Travel in SE Asia was a bit limited by the Vietnam war
spreading into Cambodia and Laos, and it was best to avoid American R&R
centres where soldiers from the Vietnam war were "relaxing".

Those were the days....
My next trip is probably North Korea, I never learn.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:34:16 +0700, "RAK"
wrote:

I did that route in 73 (showing my age), but probably almost doubled the
distance by some zig-zagging on the way to include Syria, Lebanon, Israel,
Jordan and Iraq which required some care as going to Israel made it illegal
to visit at least Iraq afterwards.
[snip]

Thanks. Interesting reading.

Did you go before or after the Yom Kippur War?

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

"Pan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:34:16 +0700, "RAK"
wrote:

I did that route in 73 (showing my age), but probably almost doubled the
distance by some zig-zagging on the way to include Syria, Lebanon, Israel,
Jordan and Iraq which required some care as going to Israel made it
illegal
to visit at least Iraq afterwards.
[snip]

Thanks. Interesting reading.

Did you go before or after the Yom Kippur War?

About 6 months before the war, which I think was in October. Probably a good
time to go.
I was lucky enough to be lent an apartment in Jerusalem, in the basement of
a church in the Garden of Gethsemane, an excellent location.
We had a good time there, mixing easily with Arabs and Jews, maybe not so
easy now.
Things were pretty quiet in Israel at the time (at least compared to now)
but the borders and those in the region were a bit tense.

Thx for a very interesting report on the heyday of the Asian overland
route.

You must have been one of the last Westerners to visit Afghanistan
before the violence began.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thx for a very interesting report on the heyday of the Asian overland
route.

You must have been one of the last Westerners to visit Afghanistan
before the violence began.

No, things got nasty later than that.
Friends travelled through after me, I think until about 1978 when the
communist party took over, killing the president.

The King was overthrown just after I left, in May 73 I think. He seemed
rather ineffective and unloved. Demos against him were going on when I was
there, amazingly tame affairs, just a bunch of guys standing quietly
opposite the palace, and a bunch of soldiers with guns on the other side of
the road. No noise, very odd - I assume the soldiers had a low tolerance
level, hence the very quiet demo. From memory the demonstrators were about
the only men in town not carrying guns. (well, that is a slight
exaggeration)

The following government under Daoud Khan was pretty good as I understand,
doing a lot to improve health, education, women's rights etc. Then came the
communist coup in 1978. The Soviets invaded in 79, and I think things were
pretty bloody from that time on.

I always wanted to go back when things got better. I am still waiting. It
would probably be better not to see the place now, as I have fond memories
of the place. People were very hospitable and friendly in what seemed a
sincere way (i.e. not friendly trying to sell me a carpet). Also shops were
very honest, no attempts at trickery. On the down side, food was not great
and hygiene was appalling, so the chance of getting through without plumbing
problems was slim.
Also though people were kind it did not pay to upset them; just before I
arrived in Kandahar 3 young French (I think) guys were killed there for
trying to deal in hash, in competition with the locals. Bad idea. And an
American Christian evangilist (maybe 2 of them) was killed camping in the
Kyber Pass (forbidden and very unwise) when he fired "warning shots" at
tribesmen riding up to him at night; I don't think they knew about warning
shots.

Excep"Markus Weiss" wrote in message
...
Pan writes:

way to Dubai. It was a starkly beautiful country from the air, and we
flew over Isfahan, which was gorgeous. I want to go to Iran some fine
day, but not now.

Iran is no problem, one of the safest countries in the world.
There is a small danger that Bush will attack. But Iran has a good
defense, including modern cruise missiles. So no real danger to go
there.

What cruise missiles have to do with the travelling security in Iran?

"Markus Weiss" kirjoitti
...
"Markku Grönroos" writes:


What cruise missiles have to do with the travelling security in Iran?

Iran can defend itself. Therefore Bush will think twice before an
attack. Reasons, not to worry about it. There are no other dangers.

Tourists seldom get killed or even hurt at war. Traffic accidents and all
sorts of illnesses are by far the greatest risk. I have heard that road
traffic is about horrendous in the country. I have also learned (second
hand) that physical attacks are very rare except close to Pakistani and
Afghan borders perhaps. Few times tourists or their relatives have claimed
any insurance money because unlucky holiday makers have been torn apart by a
cruise missile or an air bomb. By a good luck this happens in the Middle
East. I always carry a space umbrella to prevent hits by meteorites - just
in case.