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#221
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Driver Licensing IS about highway safety
On Oct 17, 6:02 am, proffsl wrote:
wrote: proffsl wrote: Our Right to Drive automobiles (operate motor vehicles) on our public highways has been recognized: Indeed, but only with a license. You cannot illogically leave out this integral part of, as we have shown you repeatedly for 18 months, the ordinary way of conducting or travel by motor vehicle. Out of some combination of fear, ignorance and maliciousness, you continually and incorrectly associate licensing with the court's recognition of our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways": You are showing yourself to be a liar again. You well know in last year's version of this thread, you lost that battle. SCOTUS: Hendrick. The courts have lo-o-o-o-ng ago made that association between licensed drivers and the "ordinary way" of operating motor vehicles on our public rights of way. You lose again. But you knew that when you posted your discredited claim, because you were made well familiar with the Hendrick case last year. Licensing and driving on public rights of way are inseparably linked as the ordinary way and your continual ignoring of that fact is illegitimate. "The Idaho Supreme Court, however, has held that the right to operate a motor vehicle on public highways is a matter of constitutional dimension. In Adams v. City of Pocatello , 91 Idaho 99, 101, 416 P.2d 46, 48 (1966), the Court declared that the right to drive "is a right or liberty, the enjoyment of which is protected by the guarantees of the federal and state constitutions. Consequently, the courts of this state must regard the right to drive a motor vehicle on public highways as constitutionally protected." - State of Idaho v. Mark Wilder (2003) -http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/idahostatecases/app/1033/wilder.pdf Wilder was CONVICTED of driving without a licesne in this cite of yours, and it was UPHELD on appeal. This case CONTRADCITS your claims, yet you still cite it only having to shoot it down. This is very foolish behavior. Licensing is not any part of the court's recognition of our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Yes it is, and THE VERY CASE YOU CITE, Wilder, GOES ON TO CONFIRM THAT. ...but instead Licensing is subjected upon this Right as a part of a police power: That, dear friend IS WHAT MAKES them linked. Your inability to grok this simple truth doesn't make it untrue, it makes you thinker than a block of cement in understanding the truth. "The state of Idaho may subject this right to reasonable regulation, however, in the exercise of its police power. Id.; Gordon v. State, 108 Idaho 178, 179, 697 P.2d 1192, 1193 (Ct. App. 1985). Therefore, the question before this Court is whether the requirement that one obtain a driver's license before driving upon the highways and, in the process, provide one's social security number, is a reasonable regulation in furtherance of the state's police power." - State of Idaho v. Mark Wilder (2003) -http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/idahostatecases/app/1033/wilder.pdf See? I was right, you were wrong. What a surprise. All your cites are belong to us!! Without the imposition of this police power upon our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Licensing would be nonexistent and not an issue. So what? Irrelevant to the fact that police power given by the people to the government under the Constitution IS linked here and since the time of Hendrick (1915). You cannot continue to ignore that simple fact that they have been joined at the hip for nearly a century, by simply denying the truth. And to that point, the courts recognize a definite limitation upon the implementation of police powers: Under the broad authority of the police power, a state legislature may enact laws concerning the health, safety, and welfare of the people so long as the regulations are not arbitrary or unreasonable." - State of Idaho v. Mark Wilder (2003) -http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/idahostatecases/app/1033/wilder.pdf Irrelevant because, despite your polite disagreement with ALL of the legal authorities and minds of the past century who have considered, litigated and ruled upon this very line of reasoning, the fact remains that licensing has been found to be a reasonable application of police powers. You lost. You can cry and stomp your feet all you want that it is not reasonable and is arbitrary, but you are simply incorrect. Your only explanation for the fact that you are on the losing side is that there is this great conspiracy you have written about involving tens of thousands of people across multiple generations in all of the he 50 states to knowingly deprive us of our rights. Good luck trying to show THAT. Therefore, upon demonstration that said police power is indeed arbitrary or unreasonable, the revocation of said police power must rightfully be forthcoming, along with the revocation of any requirement of Licensing. No, you're wrong. And, indeed, Driver Licensing IS unreasonable due to it's redundant and unnecessary nature. That is not a qualifier on which to declare something arbitrary or unreasonable. Just because you think you have another way to get to a goal doesn't mean ALL other ways are invalid. You lose. Therefore, the police power subjecting our Right to operate motor vehicles on public highways to Driver Licensing IS INDEED and IN FACT unreasonable, and subject to revocation. Ooops. You're wrong again! Proven wrong and irrefutably so. |
#222
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Driver Licensing IS about highway safety
On Oct 17, 7:45 am, "Jochen Kriegerowski" jochen-kriegerow...@t-
online.de wrote: "proffsl" schrieb Correct me if you wish to be incorrect, but aren't we supposed to have a government by the people, of the people, and for the people? The people (or better: Peoples, since this newsgroup is worldwide) doesn't (or don't) govern by newgroups, but (in most cases) by elected representatives. You should either address those, or if you are not happy with what they decide in your name, the courts as before mentioned. He can't; he knows he already has lost the argument. |
#223
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Driver Licensing IS about highway safety
"-" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
He can't; he knows he already has lost the argument. Sure. And he needs a shoulder to cry on. But why us? ;-) Jochen |
#224
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Driver Licensing not about highway safety
"Alohacyberian" wrote in message ... "proffsl" wrote in message oups.com... "Alohacyberian" wrote: I don't know where you live, You don't know where I live, yet, in your own asshole manner, you presume and pretend to have information about me even more personal than those around me, who DO know where I live, have. You are pathetic. I may be pathetic, but, I have a driver license. You don't. KM ah yes...Keith demonstrating to us all yet once again his very skilled use of the Keith Martin of non sequiturs, red herrings, and ad hominems while evading the key issue/question. And note his employment of the KM2 of ignoring utterly the key issue/question not only of my rather straightforward question: "Do you agree that a maker of a statement is accountable for that statement? A simple 'yes' or 'no' from you will suffice." but also of Don Kirkman's question to him in " Second trip to the US" here Monday, 10/15/07 1:40pm "Do you suppose you could cite some source for the information? " and of Don's comment in "Going Hawaii" here Saturday, 10/13/07 4:16pm as per Keith "...giving false impressions to people asking for reliable information?" Notice how Keith ducks whenever he cannot/will not answer/clarify when answers/clarifications are asked of him. I have asked him if he...as per my question on statement accountability...stands behind his comments on Hawaii - both in his posts here and in his website http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ - and he evades. He employs the Keith Martin, the KM2, the Alvin Toda of crawling back under that rock of his, and - in the case of my accountability question - the six year old kid's taunt "Yes or no. KM." Behavior on the one hand most arrogant, yet on the other quite fascinatingly bizarre...bordering on the pathetic. Quack, quack. |
#225
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Driver Licensing NOT about highway safety
Jochen Kriegerowski wrote:
The people (or better: Peoples, since this newsgroup is worldwide) doesn't (or don't) govern by newgroups, but (in most cases) by elected representatives. You should either address those, or if you are not happy with what they decide in your name, the courts as before mentioned. Tourists interested in travelling North America are the wrong folks to complain to. Your whole tread could not be more off topic here. So it's you who obviously is not interested in discussing subject related points (even if driving a car on highways is one way to travel) You are quite right. It isn't exactly on topic for this news group. However, it has probably become clear to you, as it is to many others, that his constant re-posting of the same nonsense, his inappropriate cites and his blatant misinterpretation of legal cases, that the poor guy has some significant mental problems. |
#226
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Driver Licensing IS about highway safety
On Oct 17, 7:18 am, proffsl wrote:
"Jochen Kriegerowski" wrote: "proffsl" wrote: Therefore, the police power subjecting our Right to operate motor vehicles on public highways to Driver Licensing IS INDEED and IN FACT unreasonable, and subject to revocation. Then why don't you simply go to some supreme court and have it revoked instead of posting this crap over and over again? The same courts who use deceitful methods to perpetuate the powers they have bestowed upon themselves by the implementation of this police power? Ooooooooo. Boogie boogie boogie!! The big konspiracy again!!! You make the mistake of believing your premises were correct, which they were not, to reach this paranoid statement. Regardless, I am not here to debate WHY I do or do not do something. If you wish to address any of the subject related points I make, feel free. Otherwise, I have no interest. You also have no logic, truth or facts to back you up. We don't make laws here, you know? Correct me if you wish to be incorrect, but aren't we supposed to have a government by the people, of the people, and for the people? Yes, we do... and the people to whom you refer have demanded for the last century through their legislatures and courts that we have a system of licensing and registration to maintain public welfare and safety, all done very constitutionally and legally. |
#227
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Driver Licensing NOT about highway safety
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:56:15 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote: You are quite right. It isn't exactly on topic for this news group. However, it has probably become clear to you, as it is to many others, that his constant re-posting of the same nonsense, his inappropriate cites and his blatant misinterpretation of legal cases, that the poor guy has some significant mental problems. As do those who keep arguing with a closed mind. Cheers, Alan, Australia |
#228
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Driver Licensing IS about highway safety
wrote:
wrote: wrote: proffsl wrote: Licensing is not any part of the court's recognition of our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", but instead Licensing is subjected upon this Right as a part of a police power: That, dear friend IS WHAT MAKES them linked. Linked by decision, but not inseparable by nature. Without the imposition of this police power upon our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Licensing would be nonexistent and not an issue. So what? So, without the decision to impose this police power upon our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Licensing would be nonexistent, and not an issue, because it is not the nature of the Right which requires the Licensing, but instead the decision to impose this police power. The nature of the Right, without this imposition of police power, is that we have the Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways". And to that point, the courts recognize a definite limitation upon the implementation of police powers: Under the broad authority of the police power, a state legislature may enact laws concerning the health, safety, and welfare of the people so long as the regulations are not arbitrary or unreasonable." - State of Idaho v. Mark Wilder (2003) -http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/idahostatecases/app/1033/wilder.pdf Irrelevant Law is irrelevant? Which Laws? The one's you love so dearly? Or the one's that threaten the continuance of those Laws you love so dearly? Therefore, upon demonstration that said police power is indeed arbitrary or unreasonable, the revocation of said police power must rightfully be forthcoming, along with the revocation of any requirement of Licensing. No, you're wrong. Ah! Never mind answering my previous question. You answered it here. The Laws that are Irrelevant to you are those Laws which threaten the continuance of other Laws you love so dearly. And, indeed, Driver Licensing IS unreasonable due to it's redundant and unnecessary nature. That is not a qualifier on which to declare something arbitrary or unreasonable. Just because you think you have another way to get to a goal doesn't mean ALL other ways are invalid. Unnecessary laws are indeed unreasonable. You lose. |
#229
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Driver Licensing NOT about highway safety
wrote:
wrote: wrote: proffsl wrote: Licensing is not any part of the court's recognition of our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", but instead Licensing is subjected upon this Right as a part of a police power: That, dear friend IS WHAT MAKES them linked. Linked by decision, but not inseparable by nature. Without the imposition of this police power upon our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Licensing would be nonexistent and not an issue. So what? So, without the decision to impose this police power upon our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Licensing would be nonexistent, and not an issue, because it is not the nature of the Right which requires the Licensing, but instead the decision to impose this police power. The nature of the Right, without this imposition of police power, is that we have the Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways". And to that point, the courts recognize a definite limitation upon the implementation of police powers: Under the broad authority of the police power, a state legislature may enact laws concerning the health, safety, and welfare of the people so long as the regulations are not arbitrary or unreasonable." - State of Idaho v. Mark Wilder (2003) -http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/idahostatecases/app/1033/wilder.pdf Irrelevant Law is irrelevant? Which Laws? The one's you love so dearly? Or the one's that threaten the continuance of those Laws you love so dearly? Therefore, upon demonstration that said police power is indeed arbitrary or unreasonable, the revocation of said police power must rightfully be forthcoming, along with the revocation of any requirement of Licensing. No, you're wrong. Ah! Never mind answering my previous question. You answered it here. The Laws that are Irrelevant to you are those Laws which threaten the continuance of other Laws you love so dearly. And, indeed, Driver Licensing IS unreasonable due to it's redundant and unnecessary nature. That is not a qualifier on which to declare something arbitrary or unreasonable. Just because you think you have another way to get to a goal doesn't mean ALL other ways are invalid. Unnecessary laws are indeed unreasonable. You lose. |
#230
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Driver Licensing IS about highway safety
On Oct 17, 8:35 pm, proffsl wrote:
wrote: wrote: wrote: proffsl wrote: Licensing is not any part of the court's recognition of our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", but instead Licensing is subjected upon this Right as a part of a police power: That, dear friend IS WHAT MAKES them linked. Linked by decision, but not inseparable by nature. Completely irrelevant to the fact that they *are* linked. At last you have accepted that fact! Good for you!! Without the imposition of this police power upon our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Licensing would be nonexistent and not an issue. So what? So, without the decision to impose this police power upon our Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways", Licensing would be nonexistent, and not an issue.... Again I say, so what? The decision *was* made. Your supposition is irrelevant to the discussion. ... because it is not the nature of the Right which requires the Licensing, but instead the decision to impose this police power. So what? That does not make it illegitimate at all; in fact it makes it completely legitimate. The nature of the Right, without this imposition of police power, is that we have the Right "to operate a motor vehicle on public highways". But we don't so that's irrelevant. Remember, Hendrick, which upheld licensing at the SCOTUS level, preceded the other decisions you cite, so the case law always has linked the two. And to that point, the courts recognize a definite limitation upon the implementation of police powers: Under the broad authority of the police power, a state legislature may enact laws concerning the health, safety, and welfare of the people so long as the regulations are not arbitrary or unreasonable." - State of Idaho v. Mark Wilder (2003) -http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/idahostatecases/app/1033/wilder.pdf Irrelevant Law is irrelevant? No, your reasoning of the dicta in the Wilder case is irrelevant. You merely differ with the decision that found licensing *is* reasonable and not arbitrary. That's your right. But those to whom we give the authority to make such decisions have found differently than you would like. Which Laws? The one's you love so dearly? Or the one's that threaten the continuance of those Laws you love so dearly? None of the above, as I just explained. I don't "love" any laws. What is, is. What I do have is an understanding and respect that you lack. Therefore, upon demonstration that said police power is indeed arbitrary or unreasonable, the revocation of said police power must rightfully be forthcoming, along with the revocation of any requirement of Licensing. No, you're wrong. Ah! Never mind answering my previous question. You answered it here. The Laws that are Irrelevant to you are those Laws which threaten the continuance of other Laws you love so dearly. You are completely incorrect. When I said that you are "wrong" above, I referred to the indisputable fact that you have failed to show the legitimate use of the public welfare and safety provisions of the Constitution in requiring people to show a certain level of knowledge and ability before piloting three-ton masses of metal on my street is an arbitrary and unreasonable use of that authority. I said "you're wrong" that you think you have established that. I trust you understand now. And I don't "love" laws. You make the common mistake of all fanatics in that you think just because you *hate* certain laws, anyone who disagrees with you must "love" them. If you'll recall, I have told you many times in the past 18 months that I could support you if you were to propose legislation to eliminate licensing. Just because I have proven your lies to be lies regarding your grand konspiracy theory about all this does not mean that I couldn't support alternative methods to achieve the goals of public safety and welfare. All I am saying is that simply because you can construct another way of doing something doesn't mean the way we do it now is illegal, immoral of fattening. And, indeed, Driver Licensing IS unreasonable due to it's redundant and unnecessary nature. That is not a qualifier on which to declare something arbitrary or unreasonable. Just because you think you have another way to get to a goal doesn't mean ALL other ways are invalid. Unnecessary laws are indeed unreasonable. No they are not. You lose. Oh, I'm sorry but no, I won. You lost 18 months ago and you haven't come up with a new line since. |
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