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  #22  
Old January 12th, 2013, 02:48 AM posted to rec.travel.cruises
Charles[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,112
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

In article ,
wrote:

I can't access the CC community boards, but it was presented as fact that
Princess had an excess amount of Noro outbreaks.

It either has to be the customers, the staff, the supplies, or the ship. I
have only cruised twice, once with HAL and once with Princess. I didn't
notice any fundemental difference between the two customer makeup, and both
crews seemed top-notch profesional. The supplies I saw didn't seem
substantially different. The most obvious difference is with the showerheads,
HAL having hand-held and Princess being the minority without... Ergo, my
conclusion.

The transmission of Norovirus is human to human, and is directly related to
hygene.

If you've never had a hand-held shower, I would suggest you spend $20 to get
one. If you had one you wouldn't want to go back. And even if you did want to
go back, the hand-held is excellent fixed in place.

If I'm going to be asea with thousands of others, all in tight quarters, and
with no chance of escape, I want everyone squeeky clean, even in those hard
to reach places. More than once I got on an elevator with passengers who
seemed to have neglected washing because they were on holiday.


It is not a fact that Princess has an excess amount of Noro outbreaks.
There are outbreaks at certain times of the year on all cruise lines.
There are also outbreaks at schools, nursing homes etc, anywhere groups
of people are together. When my mother was in assisted living they had
outbreaks every other year. And they had hand held showers! Cruise
ships just happen to get the most media attention.

As for having had a hand held shower, I have been on 42 cruises, many
with a hand held shower, including both HAL and Celebrity and other
lines with them. I think they are a premium feature which I like but
lack of one is not a deal breaker for me.

As far as hygiene the main cause of Noro is inadequate hand washing
after using the toilet.

--
Charles
  #23  
Old January 12th, 2013, 07:53 PM posted to rec.travel.cruises
Brian K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 394
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

On 1/5/2013 12:03 PM, wrote:
I just wanted to know if I am the only one. Seems like I might be. What a distinction, even Hitler wasn't banned from Cruise Critic!

And I say fine. It was just a big waste of time. How often can I read the food was "yummy" and the beds were "comfy"?

I'm thinking cruising is for people afraid of the real world. Everything is planned and controled. There is no place on the ship to get a picture that hasn't been taken a hundred times before. The crew are all programed to respond politely. Even the port stops are a controlled experience. No wonder the old folks at CC were afraid of me.

I went on two fine cruises. I've also been to DisneyWorld. They were memorable, controled experiences, but I have no desire to repeat them. I have other adventures to explore before my time is up here.

As for suing them, it is not my desire. If some lawyer has nothing better to do, I'd lend my name just for the experience.

I have training as a professional photographer. I disagree with the
statement that there is no place on a ship that has been photographed
before. (The implication being that there are no more original ways to
photograph the ship.) With a little imagination even the most
rudimentary amateur can take a stunningly original photograph.

As for the controlled environment statement. There is nothing to keep
you from going off the beaten path to experience something new and have
a richly fulfilling adventure. One of my favorite things to do in a
port-of-call is to roam the back streets and visit places that haven't
been "discovered" and included in the main tourist zone. I'm sure that I
am not the only person that thinks this way. With a little bit of
looking you can find something to interest you on Cruise Critic or any
other travel board. I don't post there frequently, but when I do I often
mention some of my discoveries and offer tips on how not to look like a
wealthy tourist mark for unsavory characters to take advantage of.
  #24  
Old January 12th, 2013, 08:19 PM posted to rec.travel.cruises
Brian K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 394
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

On 1/7/2013 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 7, 2013 5:35:54 PM UTC-8, Charles wrote:



We can't see though what was in any removed posts.



I would contact them because it is possible you are not banned since

they did not send you a message giving a reason from the moderators. My

understanding is that they have give reasons in the past. On another

cruise site where there were a number of Cruise Critic refugees that

migrated there after they got into a spat with the moderators about off

topic posts and were banned, they posted the messages they got from the

moderators which gave reasons. That message could be in error that you

get when you try and get on the board. That kind of message is likely

being generated because of the IP address you are using. That IP

address might have been used by someone else in the past who was

banned. (IP addresses get reused by many ISP's). Any chance you are

using a proxy server or VPN?



--

Charles


About half of what I posted was removed each time (about two hundred posts total, as I seem to not have a life).

There were two topics they removed often. One had to do with the fact that I thought not have a hand-held shower was unsanitary. I am willing to do without a bidet, but the absence of a hand-held is too much. Also, it may be why Princess has more Noro virus problems.


Norovirus like any virus is spread by hand to mouth/nose/eyes or any
part of the body you touch after touching a surface where the virus is
present. The key is to wash your hands frequently. Having a hand held
shower is not going to make any difference. As for cleanliness, whatever
did people do before hand held showers? They used a washcloth and
scrubbed. Then they rinsed. If you put the towels and washcloth on the
floor when done, you will get fresh ones when the room is made up. I
believe you mentioned going camping. I have gone camping and have yet to
encounter a bidet or hand held shower. What did you do there? By your
line thought the norovirus must have run rampant throughout the camp site.


The other bone of contention was my sense of humor. I offered that giving religous tracts in lieu of cas tips was a GREAT idea. The costs can be as little as a penny a piece, but could save someone from an unattractive eternity. A win/win situation! Otherwise, just pay the tips and don't get all fancy with gift certificates or home-made fudge.

The first round of umbrage I experience there, was when I bragged I bought gifts of diamonds and gold for friends. In Alaska, the t-shirt shops have "black diamond" necklaces for a buck, and little vials of gold flakes for two. You'd have thought I had personally wrung the neck of the baby Jebus by the response I got for that. That'll teach me not to shop Diamonds International.

I think people who cruise are looking for a "safe" holiday. Those who frequent CC are looking for a safe internet experience. I guess I just rocked the boat too much for their delicate nature.



I once posted something on CC which was removed. I got a personal email
from the moderator giving me the reason why the post was removed. Are
you possibly leaving out the parts where you were given reasons why your
posts were removed, and why you were banned? Most boards including CC
will give you a reason why you were banned. They also don't do it for
frivolous reasons.
  #25  
Old January 12th, 2013, 08:30 PM posted to rec.travel.cruises
Brian K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 394
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

On 1/11/2013 12:19 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2013 6:50:50 PM UTC-8, Charles wrote:




I don't see why hand held showers would have anything to do with Noro.

Could you illuminate me on your theory about that? Also cruise lines

with hand held showers have Noro. And I don't think Noro outbreaks on

Princess are more or less than on other cruise lines.


I can't access the CC community boards, but it was presented as fact that Princess had an excess amount of Noro outbreaks.

It either has to be the customers, the staff, the supplies, or the ship. I have only cruised twice, once with HAL and once with Princess. I didn't notice any fundemental difference between the two customer makeup, and both crews seemed top-notch profesional. The supplies I saw didn't seem substantially different. The most obvious difference is with the showerheads, HAL having hand-held and Princess being the minority without... Ergo, my conclusion.

The transmission of Norovirus is human to human, and is directly related to hygene.

If you've never had a hand-held shower, I would suggest you spend $20 to get one. If you had one you wouldn't want to go back. And even if you did want to go back, the hand-held is excellent fixed in place.

If I'm going to be asea with thousands of others, all in tight quarters, and with no chance of escape, I want everyone squeeky clean, even in those hard to reach places. More than once I got on an elevator with passengers who seemed to have neglected washing because they were on holiday.



I will repeat what I've said earlier. Norovirus is a virus. Just like
the flu or common cold it is spread by touching a surface where the
virus is present and then touching eyes/mouth/nose. Having a hand held
shower is not going to make much difference if the infected person
doesn't wash their hands and touches elevator buttons, hand rails, door
knobs...etc. Then someone touches the same surfaces and doesn't wash
their hands, then touches nose/mouth/eyes, they'll get infected.

If you are infected you can take a hand-held shower in the morning, but
that won't guarantee that you aren't spreading the virus. That is why on
some cruise ships infected guests are asked to remain in their cabins to
limit spreading the disease.


  #26  
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:48 PM posted to rec.travel.cruises
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:19:21 AM UTC-8, Brian K wrote:




I once posted something on CC which was removed. I got a personal email

from the moderator giving me the reason why the post was removed. Are

you possibly leaving out the parts where you were given reasons why your

posts were removed, and why you were banned? Most boards including CC

will give you a reason why you were banned. They also don't do it for

frivolous reasons.


I've told you, I've cut and pasted the screen I get if I try to visit. If you don't believe me, fine.
  #27  
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:50 PM posted to rec.travel.cruises
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:30:05 AM UTC-8, Brian K wrote:





I will repeat what I've said earlier. Norovirus is a virus. Just like

the flu or common cold it is spread by touching a surface where the

virus is present and then touching eyes/mouth/nose.


or...

"According to the Food & Drug Administration (FDA), although there are cases of noro illness transmitted by hand-to-hand contact, the most likely cause of a norovirus outbreak is contaminated water. Contaminated food is also a likely culprit.

"But if you study the last one hundred cruise ship norovirus cases, one thing is certain - the cruise line will always blame the passengers for bringing the virus aboard." http://www.cruiselawnews.com/tags/noro-virus/
  #28  
Old January 13th, 2013, 06:05 PM posted to rec.travel.cruises
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:30:05 AM UTC-8, Brian K wrote:


I will repeat what I've said earlier. Norovirus is a virus. Just like

the flu or common cold it is spread by touching a surface where the

virus is present and then touching eyes/mouth/nose. Having a hand held

shower is not going to make much difference if the infected person

doesn't wash their hands and touches elevator buttons, hand rails, door

knobs...etc. Then someone touches the same surfaces and doesn't wash

their hands, then touches nose/mouth/eyes, they'll get infected.



If you are infected you can take a hand-held shower in the morning, but

that won't guarantee that you aren't spreading the virus. That is why on

some cruise ships infected guests are asked to remain in their cabins to

limit spreading the disease.


If everyone was clean, then the chances of disease transmission would be reduced. Making it easier to keep clean, would certainly decrease the chances.

I'm not asking that a bidet be provided ("Lookey here Paw, a place to wash our clothes"), but a shower where on can actually turn around in, one where the chower curtain doesnt act like a boa constrictor, that actually keeps water in the pan, maybe some antibacterial soap, and soap dispensers instead of bar soap.

I'm not so worried about Noro, it is self limiting and usually has no lasting effects. I am more concerned with things like hepititis, TB, Legionnaire, and various staph type infections. Noro is quick to manifest, whereas the others often may fulminate for a period of time. But Noro is indicitive of the disease transmission capability of a ship.
  #29  
Old January 13th, 2013, 06:13 PM posted to rec.travel.cruises
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Cruise Critic, Banned!

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:19:21 AM UTC-8, Brian K wrote:



Norovirus like any virus is spread by hand to mouth/nose/eyes or any

part of the body you touch after touching a surface where the virus is

present. The key is to wash your hands frequently. Having a hand held

shower is not going to make any difference. As for cleanliness, whatever

did people do before hand held showers? They used a washcloth and

scrubbed. Then they rinsed. If you put the towels and washcloth on the

floor when done, you will get fresh ones when the room is made up. I

believe you mentioned going camping. I have gone camping and have yet to

encounter a bidet or hand held shower. What did you do there? By your

line thought the norovirus must have run rampant throughout the camp site..




Well, first off, camping I am not packed asses to elbows with thousands of strangers. I am in complete control with the food I eat and how it is prepared. If I camp for just a day or two, everything is disposable, used once and then discarded. If I camp for longer I am very meticulous about cleaning. There are some very nasty diseases to be picked up in the outdoors. Noro would be something I'd pick up from the supply store.

Besides, I am nearing the end of my camping days. My body just doesn't take crawling out of a sleeping bag to vist the commode like it did when I was younger.
 




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