Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport

Mike Hunt
The issue isn't that the Rabbi wanted the
Christmas ornaments removed, but he wanted
representation of his religion a this public
facility.

James A. Donald:
Christmas is a universal celebration,


No, it is not. The fact that some people have
secularized it changes nothing.

So you are worried that people might look at the
Christmas tree and THINK of a manger?

Sure sounds like war on Christmas.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

:
So they should have accomodated him they they*should*
have.

If someone is offended by Christmas, you cannot
accommodate him except by canceling Christmas, for if
you accommodate him by making some particular changes,
there is no end of people demanding additional
particular changes.

It is like negotiating with the Palestinians. You cut a
deal with the PLO, and then they say "thanks, and now for
the demands of Hamas: ..." If you begin, there is no end.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

In article James A. Donald writes:
Mike Hunt
The issue isn't that the Rabbi wanted the
Christmas ornaments removed, but he wanted
representation of his religion a this public
facility.

James A. Donald:
Christmas is a universal celebration,


No, it is not. The fact that some people have
secularized it changes nothing.

So you are worried that people might look at the
Christmas tree and THINK of a manger?

Sure sounds like war on Christmas.

Sounds like a bar fight against Christmas -- an
isolated incident. A war would be large
numbers of complaints or lawsuits against
displays which contain no specifically
Christian symbolism. Yet this is the only
story of this nature I am aware of which
did not involve things such a manger, wise
men, or other related icons.


-- cary

"James A. Donald"
Christmas is a universal celebration, heavily
celebrated by pagans such as Chinese and
Japanese. It is intended to be universal.

Christmas is a Christian holiday.

James A. Donald:
Observe Singapore at Christmas time.

Observe Riyadh at Christmas time.

James A. Donald wrote:
But you guys are trying to suppress even the secular
aspects of Christmas - you were suing against the
display of Christmas trees

Who was suing against what display of Xmas trees? The ones in SEATAC?

The remarks made by the posters in this thread
demonstrate the truth of what I said.

The remarks by a number of posters to these NGs demonstrate that they
don't know their asses from their elbows. Your point?

Deborah

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:15:26 +1000, James A. Donald
wrote:

Mike Hunt
The issue isn't that the Rabbi wanted the
Christmas ornaments removed, but he wanted
representation of his religion a this public
facility.

James A. Donald:
Christmas is a universal celebration,


No, it is not. The fact that some people have
secularized it changes nothing.

So you are worried that people might look at the
Christmas tree and THINK of a manger?

What part of "NO law" confuses you? It doesn't say "no law that makes
people think of mangers".
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"For aught we know a priori, matter may contain the source, or spring, of order
originating within itself, as well as the mind does."
- David Hume, Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)

James A. Donald writes:

It is like negotiating with the Palestinians.

Maybe. It can't be like the Israelis, since they refuse to negotiate.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Anarcissie wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:
Mike Hunt wrote:
The issue isn't that the Rabbi wanted the Christmas ornaments removed,
but he wanted representation of his religion a this public facility.

That request was denied, even though the last Supreme Court case on the
subject agreed with the Rabbi.

The fact that the airport management took down the Christmas ornaments
leads me to believe that they knew they were in violation of that ruling
. Why didn't they simply allow the Menorah to be displayed? Could it be
they are anti-semitic

Could it be because the official national holiday is Christmas, not
Hannukah? Putting up a menorrah for Christmas makes no more sense than
putting up an Easter Bunny for Halloween. Wrong holiday.

Should there be a Jewish holiday? Should the US have a holiday for the
Eid that ends Ramadan? Maybe. But that's another issue. We have a
holiday that celebrates Christmas and like it our not this is a
Christian holiday. If someone doesn't like it he doesn't have to
participate. But unless you want to try to ban Christmas then people
should grow up and leave it alone.

How can you not "participate"? Christians and other fans of
the holiday -- especially merchants -- run the holiday down your
throat, starting in late October.

It's a national holiday in the US. If you don't want to participate
then stay home. But it is absurd to suggest that the country has to
hide while it celebrates a national holiday.

If you don't like Christmas being a national holiday then ask your
Congressman to change the law.

More undisputed facts that the Christmas Tree at SeaTac Airport is a
very big deal

10. If the tree is plastic or aluminum , then that's greatttt, because
plastic or aluminum is sooo coool

9. The beautifully-wrapped boxes under the tree make Warhol collector
hearts a-flutter

8. The elegant fake tree, the terrific tinsel, the semi-gaudy lights,
the sugar plum fairies attached to mini-snowmen with candy canes, and
all the other swell, imaginative doo-dads are so much about our global
world's ...ornament sweat-shops including child labor.

7. Hey, if somebody insists on seeing a Menorah on display, then go to
a kitchy synagogue with colorful shammes.



Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.towardtradition.org/index.cfm?PAGE_ID=235



12.11.2006 Jews Strive to Restore Christmas Trees


Jews Strive to Restore Sea-Tac Airport's Christmas Trees

By Rabbi Daniel Lapin



Well here we go again. It is so utterly predictable. Like clockwork.
It's December and time for another skirmish in the annual battle
against Christmas. What compels me to comment is that this time it's
not the usual secular fanatic who's responsible for doing things that
evict Christianity from the culture. No, on this sad and alarming
occasion it's a deeply religious, well-intentioned rabbi who has
unwittingly stumbled into a situation that will place his denomination
(and mine)-Orthodox Judaism-in a terrible, negative light.

For at least ten years, Sea-Tac Airport near Seattle has displayed
several large, beautifully decorated Christmas trees each December.
With lawyer in tow, a local rabbi recently threatened to sue the Port
of Seattle if the airport didn't add a Chanukah menorah to the holiday
display.

Yielding to the ultimatum was not an option for airport management,
skittish at the best of times since 9-11. Understandably, they
interpreted the rabbi's threat as only the first. It would not be
hard to imagine Seattle's Islamic community stepping forward with
their own lawyer to demand a Moslem symbol be included as well.

With deft turn of phrase, Sea-Tac public affairs manager Terri-Ann
Betancourt explained that at the busiest travel time of the year, while
Sea-Tac was focused on getting passengers through the airport, she and
her staff didn't have time "to play cultural anthropologists."

Threatening a lawsuit, I feel, violates the Jewish principle known in
Hebrew as Kiddush HaShem, interpreted in the Talmud, part of ancient
Jewish wisdom, as an action that encourages people to admire Jews. One
need only read the comments on the Internet following the news accounts
of the tree removal, to know that most people are feeling indignant and
hurt. They certainly are not feeling more warmly toward Jews as a
result of this mess.

Here I disclose that I know the rabbi involved, am friendly with him,
and am sure that he didn't intend this outcome. I like him, which
makes it painful for me to point out that when one throws a punch
(which is what bringing a lawyer and threatening to sue is equivalent
to) and one gets decked in return, one cannot plead that one didn't
intend that outcome.

The outcome, whether intended or not, is that now vast numbers of
passengers, most of whom are probably Christian, will be deprived of
the cheerful holiday sight of pretty Christmas trees. What is more,
they will know that their deprivation was caused by a Jewish rabbi.
The rabbi's lawyer told a television reporter, "There is a concern
here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch."

No, Mr. Lawyer, it is not that Jews will be "portrayed" as the
grinch. Sadly, now we are the grinch. You made us the grinch.

Now what is to be done? I have three requests:

I am asking every reader of this column to sign a petition on the
Toward Tradition website beseeching Sea-Tac management to restore the
Christmas trees.

I am asking every reader of this column to forward it to others who
might be willing to sign this petition.

I am asking Jews in the Puget Sound region to join national radio host,
Michael Medved, and me in offering our volunteer labor to Sea-Tac. We
hope they will allow us to provide the labor necessary for replacing
the trees so that airport staff need not be deflected from their
important duties.

Why am I, an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, so concerned about a few Christmas
trees? Not for a moment do I believe that American Christians will
react to this insult with a flurry of anti-Semitic activity. But I do
feel certain that perhaps in some small way, expelling Christmas
symbolism from the airport makes it just a little harder to protect
America's Christian nature.

For centuries, we Jews suffered in a Europe governed by ecclesiastical
authority. We suffered no less under the secular tyrannies of
communism. Now, in post-Christian Europe, where both government and
population are increasingly secular, anti-Semitism is dramatically on
the rise. In short, we have never thrived under religious government
or within secular cultures.

During the past two thousand years of Jewish history Jews have never
enjoyed a more hospitable home than we enjoy here in the United States
of America.

This is because we have a religiously neutral government and a largely
religious Christian population. Most American Christians love Jews and
support Israel unconditionally because of their commitment to the Bible
and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Evidence from across the
Atlantic persuades me that our lot will deteriorate if America's
population gradually becomes secularized and removing the Christmas
trees makes that disturbing likelihood, over time, more probable. Yes,
public symbols are very important.

Years ago we Jews advocated for full equality. Today, with thirteen
Jewish United States senators, over thirty Jewish congressmen, two Jews
on the Supreme Court, and disproportionate Jewish representation in
media and entertainment, one could reasonably say we have achieved it.
But back then, the only culture in America was Christian. Today,
however, America is home to many faiths, not all of them friendly
towards Judaism.

Today, agitating for Jewish religious representation in the culture
inevitably results not in equating Judaism with Christianity but the
removal of both Judaism and Christianity. In other words, pushing for
the menorah means removal of the Christmas tree and the triumph of
secularism. Europe, both past and present, teaches us that if America
becomes secularized, Jews suffer.

For fifteen years I have insisted that for Jews to oppose Christianity
in America is a mistake. The world today is populated by millions who
harbor festering hatred for Jews. There remains one group of people
who love and support us and they are America's Evangelical
Christians. What possible sense does it make to fight your friends by
stripping their symbols from sight?

When the Moslems invaded Spain, one of their first actions was the
removal of all Christian symbols from public view. Secularism's
invasion of America is attempting exactly the same strategy. I implore
American Jews not to ally themselves with this ill-fated campaign.

We are less than a week from the Jewish holiday of Chanukah during
which our most important religious observance revolves around the
blessings we say over the Menorah. In doing so, we oppose the still
prevalent and ever more dangerous force of secularism.

When times change, unlike dinosaurs, wise organisms adapt. We should
recognize that we all have a stake in protecting Christian symbolism in
the village square (or the airport). The only alternative will be no
religious symbolism at all and make no mistake, secularism's rise is
Judaism's decline.

I spoke to the rabbi involved today and he is genuinely unhappy with
the decision of Sea-Tac airport. I invited him to join the Toward
Tradition petition and I hope he will do so. I urge you also to do
whatever you can to help bring back Sea-Tac Airport's Christmas
trees. Let us all show that we care.

Exactly thirteen years ago, a brick was thrown through a Jewish
home's window in Billings, Montana because inside that window was
displayed a menorah. Within days, over six thousand Christian homes in
Billings protested that anti-religious bigotry by displaying menorahs
in their windows.

I am not suggesting that Jews express their support by displaying
Christmas trees in their windows but I am suggesting that Jews fulfill
the spirit of Chanukah by supporting public expressions of the other
Biblical faith. I don't think that the airport was guilty of
anti-religious bigotry but a weakening of Christianity in America could
become a huge threat. For a start, let us try to restore Sea-Tac
Airport's Christmas trees.





Toward Tradition president, Rabbi Daniel Lapin, is a noted rabbinic
scholar and national public speaker. His radio show broadcasts live
over the Internet on KSFO San Francisco each Sunday 1-4pm PST and is
the author of three best-selling books, Thou Shall Prosper, America's
Real War and Buried Treasure.

Tchiowa wrote:
It's a national holiday in the US. If you don't want to participate
then stay home. But it is absurd to suggest that the country has to
hide while it celebrates a national holiday.

If you don't like Christmas being a national holiday then ask your
Congressman to change the law.

Better still -- buy a one-way trip to Saudi Arabia. There are NO Xmas
trees in their airports -- or anywhere else.

Deborah

"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
--
"James A. Donald"
Christmas is a universal celebration, heavily
celebrated by pagans such as Chinese and
Japanese. It is intended to be universal.

"Sancho Panza"
A noble sentiment, but far far far from anywhere
near reality.

James A. Donald:
Observe Singapore at Christmas time.


Which means only that they have taken the secular
aspects they like and abandoned the rest - which is
the real affront to Xmas.

But you guys are trying to suppress even the secular
aspects of Christmas - you were suing against the
display of Christmas trees, not the display of stables
and mangers. You are suing against the stuff that
people see in Singapore

Pretty fast on the trigger with "you guys." Just what guys do you mean?