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  #1  
Old March 31st, 2013, 03:53 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Dan Stephenson
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Posts: 591
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving
what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. *Based on my past
experiences I believe this two-week schedule is possible, except for
the things I do not know, which is where rte comes in. *What do you
think?

The anchors are a visit to England to visit Shakespearean sites, and
Athens to see the Parthenon. *Driving the Alps in general is important,
and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives
through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting,
and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens).


Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath,
visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest
of day to work off jet lag

Sunday - early morning Special Access Pass to visit Stonehenge, drive
through Cotswolds villages, arrive at Stratford-upon-Avon and visit
Shakespeare houses

Monday - return car to airport, train to London, walking tour around
Westminster, National Picture Gallery, get tickets for Tower

Tuesday - visit Tower and Crown Jewels first thing in the morning, then
visit British museum, time visit to see Shakespeare play in New Globe

Wednesday - train to Paris (depending on departure schedule, perhaps
visiting Tower this morning to provide more British Museum time on
prior day)

Thursday - visit the Louvre, go to top of Eiffel Tower

Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland.
*I will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the
country.

Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice,
drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel

Sunday - St. Mark's, Doge's Palace, walking tour, walking tour at night

Monday - Breakfast at Nico's Gelateria, go to airport (yes just one day
in Venice), flight to Athens, rent car from airport and drive to a nice
hotel I found south of Corinth on the Saronic Gulf

Sunday - visit Ancient Corinth, drive to Ancient Olympia (options: the
fast Gulf of Corinth coast road around to Pirgos and then head in east,
or take the highway toward Tripolis and somehow take those tiny winding
roads across the center of the peninsula?)

Monday - visit Ancient Olympia, drive to Ancient Delphi

Tuesday - visit Ancient Delphi, drive to Thermopylae, Marathon, Sounion

Wednesday - drop car off at airport, bus into Athens, see non-Acropolis
sites, e.g. the big Archeological Museum

Thursday - early morning arrival at Acropolis to visit it, perhaps more
Acheological Museum

Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA

Sunday - arrive home

--
Dan Stephenson
http://stepheda.com
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)

  #2  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 10:09 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Giovanni Drogo
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Posts: 811
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

On Sun, 31 Mar 2013, Dan Stephenson wrote:

I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving
what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. *


definitely something I won't do (surely not by car, could be fun by
train)

Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio
Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives through the Alps, then
Venice is just waiting there


You do not tell us WHEN you plan that. You should check that Stelvio
(and possibly some other passes) are open. I guess they are currently
still closed by snow.

Not sure why you have chosen exactly Stelvio among all possible Alp
passes. Also you do not tell us details on the routes.

To make the Stelvio you could either get to Bormio from Zernez and
Livigno, and then cross the Stelvio northwards, then drive to Bolzano
and all the way down to Venice.

Or you could drive from Zernez to Prato allo Stelvio via val Mustair and
then cross the Stelvio southwards to Bormio, then drive to Ponte di
Legno, Edolo and down Val Camonica to Brescia and then plain motorway to
Venice (that sort of the route google maps suggests for
Davos-Bormio-Venice, except that it skips Stelvio and does
Davos-Zernez-Livigno-Bormio !). Apparently for Davos-Zernez it suggests
the Vereina rail tunnel.
  #3  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 09:45 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Mike Lane[_2_]
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Posts: 223
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

Dan Stephenson wrote on Mar 31, 2013:

*Driving the Alps in general is important,
and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives
through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting,
and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens).



I have twice driven from Davos to Merano en route to Venice, hoping to do the
Stelvio pass. The first time was in late May. Many of the Alpine passes were
open by that time, but Stelvio was still closed. The second time was in mid
June. The pass was open but the weather was overcast with occasional rain,
and the cloud base was down to about 3000 ft. There's no point in driving
over an Alpine pass in the cloud - it's dangerous, slow and you can't see
anything, so we aborted again.


--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com

  #4  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 09:50 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Mike Lane[_2_]
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Posts: 223
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

Mike Lane wrote on Apr 2, 2013:

Dan Stephenson wrote on Mar 31, 2013:

*Driving the Alps in general is important,
and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives
through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting,
and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens).



I have twice driven from Davos to Merano en route to Venice, hoping to do the


Stelvio pass. The first time was in late May. Many of the Alpine passes were
open by that time, but Stelvio was still closed. The second time was in mid
June. The pass was open but the weather was overcast with occasional rain,
and the cloud base was down to about 3000 ft. There's no point in driving
over an Alpine pass in the cloud - it's dangerous, slow and you can't see
anything, so we aborted again.




Oh, by the way, there's a web-cam showing current conditions on the Stelvio
pass he

http://webcam.popso.it/cm/pages/Serv...IT/IDPagina/42

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com

  #5  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 12:20 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Jesper Lauridsen[_1_]
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Posts: 463
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

On 2013-03-31, Dan Stephenson wrote:
I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving
what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. Â*Based on my past
experiences I believe this two-week schedule is possible, except for
the things I do not know, which is where rte comes in. Â*What do you
think?


I'm surprised you'll attempt this, given your travel record. It's
the kind of schedule people who expects never to travel again makes.

The anchors are a visit to England to visit Shakespearean sites, and
Athens to see the Parthenon. Â*Driving the Alps in general is important,
and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. Â*If one drives
through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting,
and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens).


Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath,
visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest
of day to work off jet lag


A lot of moving around for someone coming off a transatlantic flight.
But you've been in that situation before and must know your limits.

Sunday - early morning Special Access Pass to visit Stonehenge, drive
through Cotswolds villages, arrive at Stratford-upon-Avon and visit
Shakespeare houses

Monday - return car to airport, train to London, walking tour around
Westminster, National Picture Gallery, get tickets for Tower

Tuesday - visit Tower and Crown Jewels first thing in the morning, then
visit British museum, time visit to see Shakespeare play in New Globe

Wednesday - train to Paris (depending on departure schedule, perhaps
visiting Tower this morning to provide more British Museum time on
prior day)

Thursday - visit the Louvre, go to top of Eiffel Tower


Any particular reason you're including Paris here? If it's your first
visit, it's _way_ too short, if not why bother?

Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland.
Â*I will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the
country.


Renting at airports are usually more expensive than in the city. Also
keep an eye on the included km. 300km/day is standard in Germany, don't
know how it is in France.

Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice,
drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel


Here you're going to be hit hard by the one way fee. Returning a rental
car in *another country* is expensive.

I would drop Paris, fly from London to Milano (or similar) and rent the
car there. Should save you a ton of money *and* free up some time for
alpine driving.

Stelvio should be crossed from the north - that's where the hairpins are.
Unfortunately the place is crammed with cyclists, so it's hard to build
a good rythm as you have to come to a full stop at every turn.

Or that's how it was last summer. I would like to go back, but it would
have to be at a time of year/day where it's actually possible to drive.

One of our resident Tims is an expert on these passes. Hopefully he's
still around.

Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA

Sunday - arrive home


Saturday, surely.

  #6  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 09:49 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Jesper Lauridsen[_1_]
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Posts: 463
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 23:20:53 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
wrote:
On 2013-03-31, Dan Stephenson wrote:
Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to

Venice,
drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel


Here you're going to be hit hard by the one way fee. Returning a

rental
car in *another country* is expensive.


I tried Europcar with your data ( dropoff in Mestre; don't see any
point in going to an airport). Prices start at $700 for the smallest
vehicle class.

I'm a bit miffed that prices are lower when I claim to be American
than they are when I go with Danish.
  #7  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 02:18 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 252
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:49:02 +0200, Jesper Lauridsen
wrote:

On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 23:20:53 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
wrote:
On 2013-03-31, Dan Stephenson wrote:
Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to

Venice,
drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel


Here you're going to be hit hard by the one way fee. Returning a

rental
car in *another country* is expensive.


I tried Europcar with your data ( dropoff in Mestre; don't see any
point in going to an airport). Prices start at $700 for the smallest
vehicle class.

I'm a bit miffed that prices are lower when I claim to be American
than they are when I go with Danish.


That seems to be related to where the bill is presented and what the
local tax rates are.
  #8  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 09:01 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Mark Brader
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Posts: 346
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

Dan Stephenson:
I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving
what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule...


Jesper Lauridsen:
I'm surprised you'll attempt this, given your travel record. It's
the kind of schedule people who expects never to travel again makes.


Yeah.

Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath,
visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest
of day to work off jet lag


A lot of moving around for someone coming off a transatlantic flight.


Seems to me that time should be allowed for a hospital visit following
the car crash due to falling asleep from jet lag.

But you've been in that situation before and must know your limits.


It sounds as though "visit" might mean "drive past". In my experience
driving *anywhere* in Britain takes 50-100% longer than you might expect.
I hope the airport is Heathrow, at least, this being on the correct side
of London.

Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland.
I will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the
country.


Renting at airports are usually more expensive than in the city. Also
keep an eye on the included km. 300km/day is standard in Germany, don't
know how it is in France.


As there are high-speed trains from Paris to Switzerland, it might also
be preferable to do the first part of the trip by train and then switch
to a car at a suitable point.

Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA

Sunday - arrive home


Saturday, surely.


I would have thought Friday. Due to the time zones, most westbound
transatlantic flights are daylight trips.
--
Mark Brader | "Earthmen learned how to send ships through space, and
| so initiated human history, though I suppose there was
Toronto | previous history on Earth." -- Jack Vance, "Emphyrio"

My text in this article is in the public domain.
  #9  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 11:35 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Graham Harrison[_3_]
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Posts: 288
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens


"Dan Stephenson" wrote in message
news:2013033109534132948-stephedanospam@maccom...
I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving what
I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. Based on my past experiences
I believe this two-week schedule is possible, except for the things I do
not know, which is where rte comes in. What do you think?

The anchors are a visit to England to visit Shakespearean sites, and
Athens to see the Parthenon. Driving the Alps in general is important, and
crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. If one drives through
the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting, and it is a
very special place (and would have flights to Athens).


Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath,
visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest of
day to work off jet lag

Sunday - early morning Special Access Pass to visit Stonehenge, drive
through Cotswolds villages, arrive at Stratford-upon-Avon and visit
Shakespeare houses

Monday - return car to airport, train to London, walking tour around
Westminster, National Picture Gallery, get tickets for Tower

Tuesday - visit Tower and Crown Jewels first thing in the morning, then
visit British museum, time visit to see Shakespeare play in New Globe

Wednesday - train to Paris (depending on departure schedule, perhaps
visiting Tower this morning to provide more British Museum time on prior
day)

Thursday - visit the Louvre, go to top of Eiffel Tower

Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland. I
will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the country.

Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice, drop
car off at airport, arrive at hotel

Sunday - St. Mark's, Doge's Palace, walking tour, walking tour at night

Monday - Breakfast at Nico's Gelateria, go to airport (yes just one day in
Venice), flight to Athens, rent car from airport and drive to a nice hotel
I found south of Corinth on the Saronic Gulf

Sunday - visit Ancient Corinth, drive to Ancient Olympia (options: the
fast Gulf of Corinth coast road around to Pirgos and then head in east, or
take the highway toward Tripolis and somehow take those tiny winding roads
across the center of the peninsula?)

Monday - visit Ancient Olympia, drive to Ancient Delphi

Tuesday - visit Ancient Delphi, drive to Thermopylae, Marathon, Sounion

Wednesday - drop car off at airport, bus into Athens, see non-Acropolis
sites, e.g. the big Archeological Museum

Thursday - early morning arrival at Acropolis to visit it, perhaps more
Acheological Museum

Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA

Sunday - arrive home

--
Dan Stephenson
http://stepheda.com
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)


Traffic going west out of London on a Saturday morning can be very congested
from late June to early September (and I don't just mean the immediate area
around London). Add something like 50% to any times websites may be giving
you. On peak days in late July and August you could easily add 100%.

Bath to Amesbury early on a Sunday should be doable in just over an hour.
Don't follow the A36 all the way to the A303, cut off across through
Shrewton (but watch for speed traps). By the time you leave Stonehenge
people out for a Sunday will be around plan on at least 2 hours to get up to
the Cotswolds.

The houses in Stratford are some way apart. If you aren't in Stratford by
lunch time I doubt you'll get around them all (even at your light speed).

Unless you have very specific interests and plan to miss a lot of the
museums to home in on one or two exhibits I'd say your allowance for visits
is obscenely short and gives the impression of someone who simply wants to
be able to brag about having been there. These are repositories of things
you won't find anywhere else and need time to be appreciated.

Why pay extra fees to hire a car at a Paris airport? Wouldn't a town
office be a better deal? By the way are you planning a Jeremy Clarkson
style Top Gear race on this section?

  #10  
Old April 4th, 2013, 12:21 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Dan Stephenson
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Posts: 591
Default London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens

On 2013-04-02 04:09:35 -0500, Giovanni Drogo said:

On Sun, 31 Mar 2013, Dan Stephenson wrote:

I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving
what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. *


definitely something I won't do (surely not by car, could be fun by train)


Well I like to do scenic driving


Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass
is the key part of that. *If one drives through the Alps, then Venice
is just waiting there


You do not tell us WHEN you plan that. You should check that Stelvio
(and possibly some other passes) are open. I guess they are currently
still closed by snow.


That is a good point. Living in Texas USA, I am not accustomed to
snowy climes. I'll have to factor that in, and perhaps go a little
later.


Not sure why you have chosen exactly Stelvio among all possible Alp
passes. Also you do not tell us details on the routes.


The routes aren't so critical, I'll decide the exact route en-route, I
was just checking thematic plausablity to reach Davos from Paris in a
day, and Davos to Venice in a day.


To make the Stelvio you could either get to Bormio from Zernez and
Livigno, and then cross the Stelvio northwards, then drive to Bolzano
and all the way down to Venice.

Or you could drive from Zernez to Prato allo Stelvio via val Mustair
and then cross the Stelvio southwards to Bormio, then drive to Ponte di
Legno, Edolo and down Val Camonica to Brescia and then plain motorway
to Venice (that sort of the route google maps suggests for
Davos-Bormio-Venice, except that it skips Stelvio and does
Davos-Zernez-Livigno-Bormio !). Apparently for Davos-Zernez it suggests
the Vereina rail tunnel.


From my recollection travelling through that area before, it's ALL
beautimous. So I would ask if there are any glaciers that one can
drive to and walk someone close to the face? That would definitely
shape my route. Any ideas?

--
Dan Stephenson
http://stepheda.com
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)

 




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